Liliana, Defiant Necromancer
Planeswalker — Liliana
+2: Each player discards a card.
-X: Return target nonlegendary creature card with converted mana cost X from your graveyard to the battlefield.
-8: You get an emblem with "Whenever a creature is put into the graveyard from the battlefield, return it to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step."
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
- Does Liliana, Defiant Necromancer's emblem bring back enchantments effected by Starfield of Nyx?
- Athreos and the Flip Planeswalkers
- Flameshadow Conjuring And flip cards.
- Flip Planeswalkers in creature form in graveyard and taking control of them
- How to handle each player controlling a Liliana, Defiant Necromancer emblem?
Liliana, Defiant Necromancer Discussion
3 months ago
Definitely Liliana, Defiant Necromancer as my choice.
3 months ago
5 months ago
I've been eyeing this deck for a while, so I guess its about time I commented. I remember you considering Opposition Agent , since it has some pretty absurd words on it. If you do find space for it, what do you think about its interaction with Maralen of the Mornsong ? I haven't had enough of a chance to test out how easy it is to stop her from helping opponents, (what with sac outlets and all), but I feel like the absolute lockdown these two can bring is worth it. Plus, they can both be fetched by Hulk. Also, since you've mentioned how useful Liliana, Defiant Necromancer is for making opponents discard, what are you thoughts on Mindslicer ?
5 months ago
6 months ago
Hey yeah of course I remember you. I've been wondering how your deck ended up being for you. This is by far one of my favorite decks and the deck I've invested the most time into in the last 3 years. I'm glad you came back to the game.
1) Why Wasteland? You may have noticed that all of the cards in this are German foil for the most part. I has been nearly impossible to get either Wasteland or Strip Mine in German, or foil for that matter. I like the art on EMA Wasteland more than any of the stripmines and it felt appropriately thematic for a character like Haakon, who's epithet being "Stromgald Scourge" suggests he would leave a Wasteland behind his army. Also, rarely does an occasion arise in EDH where I want to destroy a basic over a non-basic anyways, and I recently found an opportunity to get a foil borderless German Wasteland from the new Zendikar set.
2) Emergence Zone is amazing and should be played in all monocolor decks that can sustain one more colorless nonbasic. Also, there's a minor subtheme of lands being playable from the graveyard with Crucible of Worlds in this deck to support the overall discard theme. So the Zone is not necessarily a one-off use.
3) Fetches for the same reason as emergence zone: playing lands from the graveyard and if I get it going with Crucible and Ghirapur Orrery, I can really get some deck thinning going on by pulling lots of swamps out of the library. Why the two that I have and not the others? I don't have German foils of Prismatic Vista, Bloodstained Mire, and Marsh Flats is the easy answer; also theres a point where I worry about reducing the number of overall Swamps in the deck, but maybe that's erroneous since each fetch doubles as a swamp. The other real reason is that I have all the German foil snow-covered swamps and wouldn't have any other use for them if I took them out of this deck for the other fetches.
4) I haven't really gotten to use K'rrik since I put him in the deck. Took a while to source a German one and then get it altered and Corona has severely impacted how much I actually play EDH nowadays. We'll see how impactful the life loss is, but as with all such things you have to strike a balance between your greed to play stuff out with him and putting yourself in a dangerous situation. Lifelink is generally not the way I plan to recover from things like K'rrik, rather cards like Disciple of Bolas and Disciple of Griselbrand are usually more useful for gaining relevant amounts of life back. I rarely find myself attacking unless it's to get a sword trigger.
5)Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder has been in earlier iterations of this deck but his sac trigger from making too many thrulls makes him less attractive unless you can play something like Conspiracy so that he doesn't make thrulls anymore. Abhorrent Overlord is a key piece to generating a massive number of dudes to be sac fodder to an altar to make infinite mana. Since the point is to get to a play where I can just keep sacing and replaying cards from my graveyard with Haakon and Ashes of the Fallen, Overlord does that better than any other card in monoblack.
6)Bitterblossom would serve no valuable purpose other than the Contamination lock and I prefer not to play really "mean" magic like that. Contamination is not usually in the deck but I wanted to try it out because its art seems really fitting for Haakon once again as the Scource of a place. Also, it's a good card for helping a black deck catch up that is playing from way behind "better" decks.
7) Being that this deck hovers between $2-3k, I think it's safe to say that money is not a factor. I generally don't like playing tutors and already play way more in this deck than in a normal one of my decks because it's inherently so handicapped. Razaketh has been in it before and I may put him back in, it's just very easy to win outright with him on the battlefield.
8) Ghirapur Orrery has maybe backfired once on me, it's a careful balancing act. It backfired spectacularly on Justin Parnell in SCG's CMDRVS show. His opponent got a Bojuka Bog on the extra land drop and nuked his graveyard. I never play Lifeline until I'm ready to take advantage of it, and preferably when I have Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet out so that it doesn't work for opponents. Haven't really gotten to use Tombstone Stairwell because of the pandemic.
9) Null Profusion is amazing and underplayed. Play Reliquary Tower or Anvil of Bogardan afterwards and the time stamp of the last card replaces the reduced hand size with infinite hand size and now you just draw cards for every card you play. Works great with Haakon playing cards from your graveyard and Crucible of Worlds doing the same.
10) Yawgmoth is a great extra free sac outlets. Sac outlets are always the most important thing to have in a monoblack deck, especially one's that draw you a card and can potentially be removal too. His proliferate ability lets me immediately ultimate Liliana, Defiant Necromancer often too. He's generally my favorite black creature of all time.
11) Always always dredge Stinkweed Imp. More cards in your graveyard is always the goal for Haakon. The best is dredging him, discarding him to Skirge Familiar, and then drawing again from something else to dredge him again.
12) Creature tutors like Fleshwrither are always more appealing to me in Haakon because I can replay them from the graveyard. Fleshwrither isn't a good card per se, but it is a pet card and also just fantastic and frequently reusable. I can get graveyard hate (Kalitas), ramp (Crypt Ghast), or card draw (Disciple of Bolas) with him so he's very flexible depending on what point in the game I'm at.
13) Conspiracy isn't actually in this deck and Cryptbreaker is here as a discard outlet to help me get Haakon in the graveyard as well as be a infinitely castable creature from the graveyard with Haakon/Ashes out and Phyrexian Altar. That gives me all the draws I could need or infinite Gravestorm for Bitter Ordeal when it's in the deck.
14) I have recast Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger probably 5 times in a turn from the graveyard with this deck before. He's amazing and all I've needed. I prefer not to use stuff like Oblivion Stone or All is Dust that a lot of my deck wouldn't dodge as well, and since my wincon is a black enchantment Decaying Soil, I would have few options to recover from it if I was forced to use those. Scour from Existence isn't here because I don't like using over-costed one-off spells. I can tutor for Ulamog and use him repeatedly.
These were good questions and I appreciate you reading my bio and asking questions respectfully. Your manner of asking demonstrates thoughtful consideration of the deck instead of pushy insistence of a different viewpoint. Ultimately there's no "right" way to build an EDH deck, although there are objectively more optimal ways to design them. I have a passing interest in optimization, but am mostly making choices to balance synergy with flavor and a fun play experience.
10 months ago
1 year ago
Bedevil would also be really cool
1 year ago
dbsharkeyjacoby: The reason for the zombie lords isn't for the zombie tribal theme, but the buff they offer. Death Baron gives us the ability for our zombies to have Deathtouch, so unless we're getting swung with flyers, our opponents will think twice about swinging towards us. Lord of the Undead gives us the ability to recur a vast majority of our creatures, which are zombies. Undead Warchief reduces the cost of our zombies. Out of the 20 creatures in the deck, 50% of them are zombies.
Due to these effects, you'll see why I'm not running Lord of the Accursed, all it does is give our zombie duders menace, which would require us to need to swing more. If our game gets to that point where we need to turn sideways, I'd rather use Liliana, Defiant Necromancer and/or Geth, Lord of the Vault to steal creatures, and any of our other beefy boys and swing with.
Cryptbreaker was in the deck originally, but was cut due to not having enough utility. You need to tap three zombies to draw a card? Okay, that's three creatures less we have to defend with, and defend our Lili's with. The discard outlet is fine, but unless Ensnaring Bridge is out, we don't wanna be dumping cards from OUR hand, we wanna be dumping cards from either everyones hand or our opponents hand.
Ruthless Sniper costs mana for it's give -1/-1, not really ideal. Bone Miser is a fine card, but it's very costly. Archfiend of Ifnir is a good card, and I'll consider it, if I find myself in games coming across a common dead card in hand, to swap it out with.
As for the Lili's, Liliana, Dreadhorde General has been considered, however her cmc is way higher and will destabilize the curve more, as well as she runs more in Zombie Tribal. The only value I feel I'd get out of her is killing my creatures to draw a card, which may work, but I fear it'll be way too situational. Liliana, Death's Majesty runs best in a more zombie tribal theme.
The biggest thing to keep in mind with some of these higher cost suggestions is that we are running mono-black. We don't have access to ramp outside artifact ramp, and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx.