Crucible of Worlds
You may play land cards from your graveyard.
Combos Browse all Suggest
- Crucible of Worlds + Sylvan Safekeeper
- Crucible of Worlds + Overgrown Estate + Strip Mine
- Crucible of Worlds + Flagstones of Trokair + Overgrown Estate
- Command Beacon + Crucible of Worlds
- Crucible of Worlds + Lotus Cobra
- Crucible of Worlds + Dreamscape Artist
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Crucible of Worlds Discussion
1 month ago
I think so, the rules changes to MDFC's were largely aimed at the flicker effects that had been flipping them, and I don't think that's the case here. Given the wording on Prosper it seems you exile the card, then decide to play it, and MDFCs become one face or the other at the moment you decide to play them. If you can play MDFC lands from the yard as lands with a Crucible of Worlds in play it stands to reason you should be able to exile Valki and then cast the Tibalt side from exile.
1 month ago
Contemplating a pretty scandalous card swap for this deck:
(or similar effect)
Over the last several years the deck has gotten to the point that it can get little to no value out of Crucible outside of replaying a fetchland or two every 5 games where it actually comes out. It isn't something I would tutor for anymore, and isn't a huge priority most of the time as a Goblin Welder target.
Elixir on the other hand can be great nearly every game, especially getting dead Goblin lords and ladies back in the deck so I can grab them with Moggcatcher/Goblin Recruiter/Goblin Matron, get them back to the top for Conspicuous Snoop, and many others.
Really the only bad aspect is it puts lands back into the deck that I deliberately tried to remove, but with the all-or-nothing alpha strike style of this version of the deck that doesn't end up mattering as much.
Let me know your thoughts and we'll run it by Ib and see if he cares what we think or not.
1 month ago
Thanks, Guerric! There’s a lot to parse here, so I may take it in parts.
Firstly, the extra lands are temporary. My target is 36, but I had 13 extra spells, so I added 7 basics (35% rate) to be able to goldfish effectively. Sometimes I can learn a bit more about the deck and make changes that way. As I pare down spells, I’ll take out lands too. I thought about Crucible of Worlds, but opted against it because it would change my play style, but without tutors or duplicate effects it’s too high-variance.
The Stifle is mostly there to stop graveyard hate, which tends to be one-off abilities (Bojuka Bog, Scavenger Grounds, Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus) and which could really mess up my plans. That’s a good point on Dovin's Veto; maybe I’ll swap it for a Negate.
I really like Reconnaissance because it not only allows me to attack into unfavorable board states but also gives pseudo-vigilance, allowing me to commit all my zombies without worrying about the crack back. Anything to maximize those Varina triggers! Flawless Maneuver might need to come out, though.
I’ve used Plumb the Forbidden to great effect in my Mazirek deck. Since it’s instant speed, it’s really good at turning creatures that would die to unfavorable combat or a board wipe into card advantage, and since it’s 2 CMC I can always just put the mana into Varina if I don’t wind up needing it. I had Kindred Discovery in there originally, but in a deck that’s both ETBing and swinging this much it seemed like overkill (plus it’s crazy expensive). A lot of my perspective on card draw may need to change, too. Like I said, I’m not used to using my graveyard, and while Varina let’s me look at a lot, I’m still uncomfortable throwing cards away. After all, they’re all in there because I want to cast them! I need to get better at choosing what to pitch (which is kind of the whole point of making this deck), but corollary to that is figuring out how much draw-to-hand I need and how much I can lean on my ‘yard.
A lot of the deck techs I’ve looked at leaned into Varina’s activated ability. I didn’t much like that because (1) it makes her into a glorified token factory, (2) I want to push myself to use the cards in my graveyard, and (3) why would I want to spend 2 mana and two cards for a vanilla zombie when I can spend 2 mana and one card for a Corpse Knight, a Wayward Servant, or 3 mana for a Diregraf Captain. In the little bit of goldfishing I’ve done, though, she’s dumping cards so fast that exiling two of them isn’t even a problem. I had originally taken Tormod, the Desecrator out, but wound up putting him back in because of the number of cards I was exiling. I’d like to bring it back toward a reanimator strategy, and I think Syr Konrad, the Grim would be a good payoff for that.
You have a ton of good suggestions, including Crashing Drawbridge, Dusk / Dawn, Necromancy et al. (I knew there were others, I just couldn’t remember them!), Living Death/Rise of the Dark Realms, Haunting Voyage/Patriarch's Bidding, and the talismans, but I still need to cut 13 spells to even get down to 100 cards, and then more to make room for any of them. This is my problem!
1 month ago
I think I can help with this deck! I've built a lot of tribal decks and have pondered building Varina myself. I like to help thoroughly, so I am going to give a bit of feedback, and might separate the posts out for convenience. I'll also upvote it and draw some others to this page to provide feedback as well!
To begin with, I commend the choice of avoiding infinite combos. Though Varina has a few, she can be plenty powerful without them and while I play a lot of combo decks myself, it gets boring sometimes. I guess we'll start with cards to cut, and then we'll get to direction and cards to add! To begin with, the first thing to cut is lands. 43 is way too many for any deck that isn't a landfall deck. I realize that you are playing Field of the Dead and that lands help it, but you won't see that card every dame due to no tutors, and its potential is limited without access to green. Playing Field is fine, and you may even want to play Crucible of Worlds so you can just discard your lands and play them from your graveyard and for synergy with Field, but don't get too excited about it. 37 is the golden mean for most decks in EDH, and with an engine commander like Varina I'd play 35 personally, though 36 could be a compromise. I also don't think you need Flawless Maneuver. When your zombies die you can just bring them back! I don't think you need Reconnaissance either. Your Zombies are fodder for the horde, and you can just bring them back. Just don't attack with Varina and you have nothing you need to worry about protecting. Lazotep Plating is fine, but you'll mostly use it to protect Varina, so I'd think of it as a protection spell. Void Rend's mana cost is prohibitively highly (3 colors is too much). I'd just play Generous Gift instead. Smothering Tithe is a great card that I play in three of my decks, but I wouldn't play it in Varina. Its a slow grindy card more suitable to control and combo decks, and you'd rather be casting Varina on turn 3 and Zombies or Zombie spells every turn after. I'm not sure if cEDH is what you usually play, but cards like Stifle and Songs of the Damned are often a bit one off and limited for standard EDH. The latter could maybe be fine for flavor, but I'd definitely cut the prior. If you want a more flexible spell play Disallow which will be a lot more flexible. Nykthos Paragon is a neat idea because it does something with your life gain, but it is pretty high costed at six and isn't a Zombie, so I might not play it, but it will bring slow value if it isn't killed.
I'd also cut down on your card draw pieces. I never say this, but with Varina you'll see lots of cards, and can play a lot from discard or the graveyard, so I'd focus on the highest impact one and cut some of the bad ones like Plumb the Forbidden. Cards like this have limitations because you have to sac them (versus letting them die in combat), and you won't always want to do that. The best ones are the high impact ones like Teferi's Ageless Insight and Alhammarret's Archive. I'd also cut Bontu's Monument. The ramp isn't very good and the aristocratic effect isn't as good as you think its going to be.
Now for what's great here- all of your Zombies. Seriously, it's a great list, all of them! You also really want to play a few cards from your maybe board too. Syr Konrad, the Grim is a must play. Seriously, it'll be the best card in the deck bard none. It's not an infinite combo, but he's amazing with recursion cards, board wipes, and death (more on that below). You also need to play Haunting Voyage and Patriarch's Bidding. They are in your maybe board and are must plays!
1 month ago
1 month ago
Profet93 .. A lot to unpack here and its late but I want to respond before I forget.
Maralen of the Mornsong, It would just be another option to lock the game when I am ahead. I do not currently have the card though and I am loathe to spend $20 on a card that might just sit in my binder. This will only be tested if I can trade for one.
Mox Opal I agree. I do have a bit of artifacts in my deck and I do consistently have the extra 2 needed to trigger metalcraft. The chance it is a dead card though in the early game could cost me the game itself. Like the Maralen, unless I can trade for it to test it out I am not willing to drop more $ on a possible binder card.
Karn, the Great Creator I do like him as a stax piece just in my current game environment the only consistent thing it is turning off are mana rocks, which to me is less impactful then what else I could be using the 4 drop on. If it does change I can see him being a good add. I have Karn though so it might be worth testing out.
Cabal Coffers + Deserted Temple + Rings of Brighthearth = GG. This might be worth adding as another win condition. I didnt add one of these win conditions before because I didn't want to add cards that had no use on their own. I am worried that Rings is slow.
Bitterblossom + Contamination The times I have had it out on the board it has done very well. It has shut off my own Coffers before but the lock was enough. I have also used it just to slow them down a couple turns and let it sac itself. It is not perfect but it helps me break parody and get ahead.
Crucible of Worlds in this deck I am not fond of it. It takes a valuable 3 drop spot and has no impact when coming in. It does look better if I had the 5 sac lands to go with it, but its still a hard sell for me.
This is a 3am response so I hope I didn't butcher it to much. TYVM for the insights though, its all worth trying and seeing what happens.
1 month ago
Sorry for the additional comment but.....
I forgot to mention with Karn, you can get an artifact card from necropotence that you exiled (should that make you more likely to add it in)
Moreover, another combo you currently have in the deck is Opposition Agent + Wishclaw talisman. You can use wishclaw to tutor for Opp agent and steal the card they tutor for.
Is Urza's saga necessary? I am unsure if the targets of top, ring, crypt and jewled lotus are enough to warrant. It's inclusion, especially in a build with a low land count. How has it played for you?
Speaking of land drops, if you were to add fetchlands and Crucible of Worlds, then you can ensure consistent landrops. Moreover, crucible allows you the leniency of discarding lands and keeping important spells while still making land drops. Additionally, it works well with strip mine and even emergence zone. Not an entirely serious suggestion given the competitive nature of the build, but worth noting.
1 month ago
freezerboy Yes I agree! Love your suggestions. Ok, about to make some changes. I do not own all the cards you and others have suggested such as Eternity Vessel, Emeria Shepherd, Planar Birth, Cleansing, and Crucible of Worlds--so I'm putting in what I have to make the deck more land focused than it already is and put in some recursion that Spell_Slam discussed with me. I also see an obvious slate of 10-11 cards that I can take out now. I will publish the update and you can provide more feedback from there if you wish! Thanks!