|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Uncommon|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Uncommon|
|From the Vault: Twenty (V13)||Mythic Rare|
|Masters Edition (MED)||Common|
|Fallen Empires (FEM)||Common|
|Promo Set (000)||Common|
Combos Browse all
Hymn to Tourach
Target player discards two cards at random.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (32)||DruneGrey , brokendwarf , gosora , dexxter7 , awalloftext , , rockleemyhero , Psycheretic , saj0219 , MoJoMiXuP , Spinalripper , , golgarigirl , acbooster , sonnet666 , fireborne1986 , dplerner , CAPTAINxCOOKIES , Clawsun73 , Benniator , Wiggins , TheRealPeaches , abby315 , ZombieFood , Hootiequack , Roadhog , DrPopular , NorthernCrow , TehDelta , Skydra2 , Famicomania , mziter501|
|Want (3)||ericalt91 , , Spinalripper|
Hymn to Tourach Discussion
1 week ago
I play legacy zombies. Unless you play zombardment (not a true zombie tribal) they are pretty weak. Legacy is a brutal format and elves/gobs seem to be the main viable tribals. That being said I love the direction you took with your legacy zombs, way different than the way I went.
I do think 4x Gravecrawler with 3-4x Buried Alive is probably one of the most synergistic combos for a zombie tribal, especially with the mana ramp like Dark Ritual you have in there. I also think that if you are playing monoblack like this you should ABUSE the discard power black has with Thoughtseize or Hymn to Tourach. One of the most broken black cards in the format Reanimate or Animate Dead if you want budget is great with zombies as well. With these you have some nasty potential for turns 1-2 to either force and opponent to discard a powerful creature card and reanimate it on your side, or t1 start shitting out gravecrawlers from your yard and overwhelm. A turn 1 Buried Alive will also be great to fuel your graveyard for dropping a very early Gurmag Angler if you have to.
I have been playing with Smallpox recently, and it could have some potential.
Diregraf Colossus is nuts for zombies.
You have the same amount of land I ran in a GoN elves deck, which doesn't seem right.
2 weeks ago
2 weeks ago
xEth0sx, I've finished reading the description of your Gisa deck and I think I can help you with it. I'll talk about some of my impressions about your primer first, then I'll go over some of your card choices and I'll tell you about a few cards I think should be in the deck.
As far as primers go, I'd say this one is missing a couple of important things. If I had to list them in order of relevance, I'd say that it is missing (a) a single card discussion section; (b) a section about how one should play the deck, what the deck is trying to accomplish, and how it tries to finish the game (e.g., a How to Play the Deck or a Strategy section); (c) why mono-B instead of any other color or color combination?; and (d) why Gisa? There might be other things but those are the items that came to my mind. I get that maybe you've just started writing this primer but moving forward, I believe it would be important to address these issues.
Now, let's talk about the exciting stuff, namely the decklist. The idea to use Ghoulcaller Gisa as a stax commander is an interesting one. It punishes spot removal and it takes advantage of creatures with a recursion ability to make even more creatures, which in turn can be used for stax pieces (e.g., Contamination, Smokestack) and hit face. I like the idea but why did you choose Gisa?
As a mono-B player, you'll need to be proactive about making it hard for your opponents to combo off because you don't have the luxury of running permission spells. The stax plan is very good here and I can see you are also playing a few disruption spells. A+ here. The only strange choice is Cabal Therapy. The sac ability might come handy at times but seems too situational. Duress is hands down a better choice, and I'd consider running Hymn to Tourach and Mind Twist as well. In the same vein, I'd even consider running Ill-Gotten Gains, too. It has great synergy with Waste Not and Leyline of the Void, and if you manage resolve it in the early game, it will set all your opponents back quite a lot (and it's also an additional yard recursion). It's a very versatile card that should be in every mono-B deck in my opinion.
On the stax package, I'd favor Infernal Darkness over Contamination hands down, or play both. Contamination shuts down your own coffers and it is more situational than Inf Darkness--that is, if you can cast darkness, you can keep it going for at least 2 turns, but if you can cast Contamination, you can only keep it going it you can also sac creatures. I understand the role of Tenacious Dead and Reassembling Skeleton but in my mind, I think you could remove both of them and if you really need an alternative, add something like Ophiomancer. Similar to Bitterblossom, Ophio doesn't require you to keep spending mana to create a creature.
One thing I feel you are missing is mana doublers. One advantage of playing a mono colored deck is that it makes it easier to run mana doublers, such as Extraplanar Lens, Bubbling Muck, and Crypt Ghast. If you go that route, you can get additional value with Candelabra of Tawnos (someone suggested before) and I'd also run Snow-Covered Swamps instead.
I have additional suggestions (e.g., Jet Medallion, Snuff Out, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, Innocent Blood) but I don't want to make this comment longer than it is. I have a competitive Erebos list (Erebos' Bargain) that might give you a few additional ideas on how to improve your own list. Feel free to check it. Anyway, good stuff you have here. Keep working on it and good luck on future games!
2 weeks ago
No problem AwesomeDoofus! Glad my suggestions could be of some help!
It's true that more efficient CMCs will often lead to higher prices i.e. Liliana's Caress vs Raider's Wake. Though, if your LGS (local game store) is selling Liliana's Caress for 8$, that is truly egregious. You can find them here for 2-3$ a card here TCG Player and I suggest buying other cards on that website since they have very competitive pricing.
My opinion of Consume the Meek is not very high considering that you can wipe the whole board for the same mana cost in cards like Crux of Fate. Pestilence Demon is also pretty meh to me because it is terribly expensive unless you are running some kind of reanimation deck with cards like Entomb and Animate Dead OR ramp spells like Dark Ritual, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, and Cabal Ritual. If Tempt with Immortality is already a very medium card in your deck, then I would shy away from adding other medium cards to the deck like Crypt Incursion just to make the other medium cards better. It's simply better to not have the initial medium card in the deck to begin with. The other cards I'm not so big on as well, especially when you consider that you wanted to add more discard to the deck. These other cards would make that hard to do.
Unfortunately the best discard effects are pretty expensive because they see play across multiple formats. These include-
-to name a few
The other problem with discard spells is that they lose their potency late into the game because people will simply be drawing and playing their only card and have nothing to discard. This is why cards like The Rack and Black Vise are so good. These cards create tension within your opponent and gives value to your discard spells late into the game. Your opponent will not want to play anything so that they can keep cards in hand to not take damage from the artifacts, this means your discard spells will actually be worthwhile late into the game creating a lose-lose situation for the opponent because they will take damage from the artifacts if they play what they draw, but if they don't play what they draw you may just make them discard it anyway and how can they win if they are not playing the cards they draw? A deck that looks to enable this strategy on a budget for 1vs1 (so no Liliana of the Veil or Thoughtseize) might look like this-
4x Dark Ritual (this card enables you to do very powerful things early in the game such as play Hymn, and Inquisition on turn 1)
1x Waste Not
4x The Rack
4x Black Vise
Two things to notice here, 1 there are no creatures. This means cards like Innocent Blood, Pox, and Smallpox do not affect us in that way, only our opponent. Our main win condition here are the Rack and Vise, so no need for creatures. The Mishra's Factorys are just a plan B. This also makes a lot of our opponents cards, like removal spells, very bad against us limiting the amount of impactful cards they can play against us. The second, is you'll notice there are a lot of 4ofs. Rather than having 1 of this and 2 of that, having multiple copies of 1 card increases the percentage that we actually draw it or have it in our opening hand. What this means is that our deck is much more efficient because the chances and percentages of us drawing the cards we need are as high as they can be. This is an important aspect of deck building to keep in mind.
Now, that last deck was a true discard deck. If you want to play creatures though and want to be swinging for damage in Mono then I would suggest a Devotion deck which exploits the power of cards like Gray Merchant of Asphodel by trying to get as many symbols on the battlefield as possible. A Devotion deck with budget in mind (so no Phyrexian Obliterator) for 1vs1 might look like this-
4x Doom Blade
4x Brain Maggot
Now these two decks I put here are just simple examples of different directions to go, obviously if you do a mix of both of them, then you will inevitably dilute the strategy of one another but that's certainly okay if that's what you want to do. It's kind of where I would put the deck as it stands now. You have some discard, you have some creatures, some of it synergizes with the rest, but as a whole it is not as focused as the decks above. All of this is to answer your last paragraph when you ask, "What is worth keeping?" Well, that's a tough question because we first have to ask, "What is it we are trying to do?" Once you answer this, you can then eliminate the cards that don't help in those areas and add more copies of the ones that do. Now, I don't want to push you one way or the other, I simply want to provide the options so that you know what possibilities are out there.
I hope this was not terribly overwhelming, and you are right, this is what I enjoy doing on this site so its no trouble to me! So if you have more questions please feel free to ask!
2 weeks ago
Far out Mandalorian! Thank you so much! This is a huge help, I was struggling but with this i should be able to get this deck flowing magnificently. I was kind of just expecting a sentence or two of advice and a few card recommendations but you really put in to help me get this deck running. Cheers!
Some of the cards you mentioned I already have (such as Mutilate, Grey Merchant of Asphodel, Duress, and Nightmares pouring out of my ears) but I dis-included them here just because I was using this list to decide what cards to buy.
Some others like Liliana's Caress, Hymn to Tourach, and Shrieking Affliction (I do have one of these but wanted more), I kept out either because the seller didn't have them or I left out to cut costs a bit. (Liliana's Caress is $8 ea! Why I went for Raiders' Wake instead, though it's CMC is higher)
And then there's those cards like Zombie Infestation, The Rack, Waste Not (far out that card is good) and Faith of the Devoted that I somehow never found when researching discard cards and now I feel I must hunt down these cards right away.
I also now totally see what you mean with Brain in a Jar, Tempt with Immortality, and Blood Tribute. Especially Tempt with Immortality I never even realised I was giving their discards back facepalm. Though I've already ordered those cards they'll fit fine in other decks I own so no issue being rid of them.
I was also wondering what's your opinion on adding some cards I already own such as Consume the Meek, Pestilence Demon (Mono-black can work wonders with him, tho it can also obviously be a detriment), Liliana's Reaver, Jar of Eyeballs, Wight of Precinct Six, and Crypt Incursion. Although Crypt Incursion could result in lofty amount of life, it also kind of ruins the synergy of cards like Guiltfeeder but in the other hand denies possibilities of opponent's getting their cards back and could even make Tempt with Immortality more viable.
Another thing I was worried about was that besides Creeping Dread I don't have much consistent opponent discard sources. I did originally consider Cao Cao, Lord of Wei but my seller didn't have it and I do prefer to avoid spending $5 on one card (there are exceptions of course). Other than that I just thought of adding more discard spells like more Mind Shatters, and now, adding a few Unnerves. I do own heaps of Mind Rots but they down seem very CMC efficient. Also adding some of these cards (which I plan to do) will return my issue of deck size. What do you think I could replace? What's worth keeping? What doesn't contribute enough to warrant keeping?
Sorry I feel like I almost just wrote an essay question for you to answer, but I feel as though you probably enjoy this stuff ;P
Again, thanks soo much for your assistance, this is the first deck I've made that I'm trying to make perfect so I really appreciate the help in getting it there. Cheers!!
2 weeks ago
Here are some more fun ways to make your opponents discard cards and lose life. You mentioned that you just play with your friends, if you play multiplayer games then the cards that say each opponent are especially powerful-
Other good Mono stuff
Underworld Connections can help refill your hand while emptying your opponents
Hope this helps trim and focus the deck a bit more and gives you some more ideas to brew with!
3 weeks ago
As a person who made a pauper cube, I can advise you that is fun, but only for a while. Once drafted a few times, it becomes clear that going wide is the most viable strategy, since pauper does not offer any good board wipes.
The most important thing about the cube - you do not want to spend ages gathering the cards, sleeving 300+ cards and 100+ lands only to find out noone really wants to draft it MULTIPLE times.
Gauge your target audience.
3 weeks ago
Pyromancer's Goggles is a sick card for this kind of deck as well. Pair it with Fall of the Titans to instantly win games, or with Rakdos's Return to win multiplayer games. And for some more disruption, which is always a good thing, you might look to Mind Twist or Hymn to Tourach.