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At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player discards a card at random.
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Bottomless Pit Discussion
1 week ago
Couple of notes up front (might just be due to ongoing edits):
- You have 2 copies of Victory Chimes in the list
- You only have 96 cards in the list (including the duplicate above) instead of 100
Want to suggest a couple of deck strategies to consider focusing in on (they are all fairly synergistic but it might help to pick one to focus on to help the deck feel like it has a clearer win condition):
With your current list of mill-value and beats, the missing pieces only seem to be ways to close the game.
- Keening Stone to close out a player with mill
- Necrotic Ooze to take advantage of any opponents' powerful abilities
- Consuming Aberration and Lord of Extinction seem quite good
- Psychosis Crawler takes advantage of the multiple windfall effects you are running but otherwise isn't too synergistic
- Splinterfright is a cheaper Lhurgoyf with better keywording and a synergistic 'tax' that works in your favor. Terravore might be worth considering too.
Discard Group Slug
I think this is a really interesting avenue for Muldrotha: running cards like Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Waste Not, Oppression, Mindslicer and Myojin of Night's Reach to clear out your own and opponents' hands while benefiting from Muldrotha and other graveyard recursion effects to allow yourself to keep making plays. It would be a deck unlike any other at our table so far.
Other solid cards that support this archetype:
- Scythe Specter, Hypnotic Specter, Liliana's Specter
- Cabal Conditioning
- Words of Waste
- Necrogen Mists
- Bloodhusk Ritualist
- Bottomless Pit
- Sword of Feast and Famine (yeah, expensive though)
- Painful Quandary
- Archfiend of Ifnir
Graveyard Theft or Pure Recursion
This concept would run recursion spells like Boneyard Parley to steal the best things from opponents graveyards. In this case, Muldrotha allows us to consistently run targeted recursion from our graveyard, and we can focus our deck construction on the grave-robbing package. Because of Muldrotha's ability, we want to focus primarily on "theft on sticks" which we can repeatedly cast as needed, likely leaning heavily into Black.
Theft on Sticks examples
- Chainer, Dementia Master
- Dance of the Dead
- Scion of Darkness
- Chancellor of the Spires can both jump-start your mill value and borrow a winner from someone's yard. Sam has one.
2 weeks ago
Bloodchief Ascension Cao Cao, Lord of Wei Greel, Mind Raker Sadistic Hypnotist Syphon Mind Delirium Skeins Dark Deal Hymn to Tourach Liliana Vess Smallpox Unnerve Bottomless Pit Words of Waste Tasigur's Cruelty Conjurer's Closet Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur Nephalia Smuggler Ghostly Flicker Essence Flux Phyrexian Metamorph Sakashima the Impostor Dimir Doppelganger Followed Footsteps Mindslaver In Bolas's Clutches
2 weeks ago
(I don't really know how competitive you are trying to make this deck. Right now, it looks like you are running a lot of coll, spicy, fun cards! If your intent is to try out splashy mythics and game warping bombs, you should totally do it! I personally love playing a planeswalker tribal deck with Muldrotha, using Inexorable Tide to ult them quickly. However, for the sake of this comment, I'm going to be looking from the perspective of trying to make a more streamlined, synergistic deck.) Welp I'm a little late, but here are my thoughts on Muldrotha:
The Mending of Dominaria is kinda a non-bo with the rest of your deck. Its recursion isn't that strong, as Muldrotha can get back creatures and play lands, and then it shuffles away your bin. If this is meant to be a safety in in case you run out of cards (I notice there is no Laboratory Maniac, IDK if that's on purpose, so I'll assume you plan to win in a fair way.), then Elixir of Immortality should be enough. (Usually, people won't be trying to exile this.)
I notice you are running both Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation. While individually powerful, they are also kinda non-bos with Muldrotha, as she will still only allow you to play from the bin on your turn. Generally, you'd rather maximize your recursion value each turn than hold up an instant speed creature. (Planning around having Seedborn Muse is too much work for not a huge reward, as you still can't play from the bin.)
There are several big dudes in this list, namely Vorosh, the Hunter, Void Winnower, Archfiend of Despair, and Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar. While they are all pretty good at ending games, none of them have much synergy with graveyard decks (Multani's is a little loose, as "BIG DOOD" doesn't usually kill people very well when you look at the other, more potent threats in this format.). My personal favorite of these is Void Winnower, as it nulls 1/2 of your opponents' spells, and win very quickly. While these are certainly not bad cards, big fatties aren't as good when against three players worth of removal.
Hoo boy, is Kamahl's Druidic Vow a card I never thought I'd see in a deck. Currently, you have around 16 legendary permanents, with an average CMC of roughly 5. That means to get even an okay druidic vow, you have to spend at least 7 mana. 7 mana to get ~1 legendary permanent, ~2 lands, and then to bin ~2 other cards really just isn't that great, especially compared to Genesis Wave.
The last two cards that I think might be a little sketchy are Jace Beleren and Damia, Sage of Stone. Both are fun cards, and very good, but again, don't seem to help your deck too much. I assume your reasoning for Jace was that you would mill yourself with him, but he has to survive for FOUR turn cycles before you can ult him, simply milling for twenty. Jace, Memory Adept does pretty much everything Jace Beleren does, but faster. In that four turn cycle, he could have milled almost half your deck, or drawn just you four cards and milled you for four, etc. Damia is a lot closer to being really good for this deck. She allows you to refill if your bin gets wiped a la Rest in Peace or something similar, and can solidify your winning position. However, I ultimately think that Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur does all that but better. By the stage in the game that they're relevant, mana cost shouldn't really matter too much.
Now to cards worth considering: 1. Perpetual Timepiece. 100000%. This card is repeatable mill and protection for 2 mana. It's pretty much an invaluable asset to Muldrotha decks. 2. Caustic Caterpillar. I see that you took this card out from theoriginal list, and if that was do to yuor meta/playgroup not having a heavy reliance on artifacts/enchantments, then ignore this. But most commander decks do care about them, and the overlap between it and Seal of Primordium is totally okay. 3. Pernicious Deed. This card can, admittedly, be a little awkward sometimes, as you often want to keep your support permanents around, but a repeatable board wipe like this is still very strong. 4. Sakura-Tribe Elder. This card is stupid in Muldrotha. I've had all the basics out of my deck before some of my opponents could even play their commanders. I don't think there's any reason not to run it. 5. Kiora, the Crashing Wave. She ramps, draws cards, is effectively removal, and her ult can win the game. Nuff said. (really though, she's very good, and great for early game when Muldrotha deck struggle to get off the ground with their 6-CMC general) 6. Ramunap Excavator or Crucible of Worlds. Now this is a bit of a controversial one. I'm still not entirely sure that they are worth it, but have found good results with the excavator. Basically, regardless of how many lands you can play for turn, Muldrotha will only let you play ONE from the bin (NOTE: Muldrotha won't let you play an extra land each turn (one from hand, one from bin)). So Ramunap Excavator +Azusa, Lost but Seeking will let you play three from the bin each turn, and pretty soon you have 20-someting lands on the field. Again, just something to consider, they are definitely still undergoing testing.
MEAN STUFF: Discalimer: These cards are often, to some degree, good at making the game less fun for everyone else, and sometimes you too. If you have a specific playgroup, I recommend asking how people feel about these cards first, so as to avoid uncomfortable situations of salt and dejectedness. All right, you've been warned, now, in no particular order, the mean stuff: 1. Glacial Chasm. This card with Muldrotha makes you nigh-invincible, at least to damage. (Loss of life/ "win the game" cards will still get you). Often, this card isn't perceived to badly, as most decks run some way of dealing with lands, but to a more casual player with a heavily creature-based deck, this might be upright cruel. 2. Possessed Portal. This may look like an awful card, but trust me, this is pretty good at locking people out of the game, especially with Jace's Archivist. Just make sure you have a way to survive under it! 3. Bottomless Pit. For you, pitching cards doesn't really matter (early on it might a little, but usually far less than it does for other decks.) This is good at shutting down just about any deck trying to do fancy things. 4. Oppression. This card is very well named. Often filling a similar role to bottomless pit, Oppression eats away at players, effectively halving the number of cards they can play. Except for you, of course. 5. Stasis+Claws of Gix. Claws is arguably worth including without stasis, as a sac outlet that can sac anything, but with Stasis, slaws will just lock every opponent out of the game. this is a reliable two-card combo, that requires only 3 mana, and Muldrotha to be out. However, Stasis is pretty much unplayable without Claws of Gix, so when you do play it, you basically just win, meaning that you often don't really get to "play" with stasis. 6. Smokestack. The namesake of the "Stax" archetype, Smokestack can very quickly turn a fun game of magical cards into a vicious game of french revolution, with you as the monarch. Smokestack does, I feel, get a little too much hate, as it takes several turns to really do anything. But it can quickly turn the game in your favor when you just play back everything you just sacrificed.
And that's it! I love Muldrotha decks, and how many ways there are to build them. There's not really any way to make them wrong, so keep trying new things out! I apologize for this little wall of text, but hopefully some of it is useful.
3 weeks ago
Earthcraft Nath Enchantress is my varient. This is a decently efficient version of a similar list, that uses Words of Waste, Oppression, Bottomless Pit, Mind Slash, Necrogen Mists, Thoughtrender Lamia, etc. to create a ton of tokens, and use them to Earthcraft your way to a million mana and win from there.
Wanna switch minds?
I quite like your version with Megrim and Quest for the Nihil Stone, etc. to punish on discard. Using Temple Bell, Rites of Flourishing and other such effects to give them more cards just to take them away for more effects on discard seems really cool! Do you have any problems with your opponents using those resources before you can remove them?
Also I need the Skullclamp I feel dumb for forgetting it!
1 month ago
If you're going to use only one copy spell I'd suggest using Fork over Reverberate. While they're very similar and neither is strictly better or worse than the other one common scenario Fork has over Reverberate is when copying counter spells and turning them red. This can be significant, because in past times when copying counterspells I've had cards like Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, and Guttural Response used to counteract my Reverberate when copying a blue counter spell or draw spell. Most non-blue decks that can run those cards will likely run them more-so than not and Fork bypasses that issue easily when needed.
It seems your meta is thoroughly diverse. Hand and deck disruption can be a strong asset for taking down a combo deck, but I wouldn't consider Praetor's Grasp or Wheel of Fortune strong enough effects since combo decks can always run back-up combos to rely on. What really hits combo is repeatable effects and some of the strongest you could probably run would be Mind Slash and Bottomless Pit which a lot of combo players would find nasty. (Painful Quandary is a close third place and can stop storm decks pretty effectively as well.) Also if you're going up against non-graveyard strategies Mesmeric Orb is a ballistic nightmare in any singleton format it's put in which would be the only effective mill card I'd ever recommend when hurting combo.
Do note graveyard-based combos are a little more resilient to the card suggestions I've given above, but so long as you have something like Rest in Peace and/or Planar Void you can easily avoid this issue without giving them any fuel to burn.
Given your meta I would imagine Torpor Orb would lift a lot of weight for you especially against Purphoros, God of the Forge, Palinchron/Deadeye Navigator, and whatever ETB effects the Muldrotha, the Gravetide deck is probably abusing.
One aspect about blue I've never liked was it's use of counter spells. If you find Reverberate helpful I'd recommend also using cards like Seal of Cleansing, Sinister Concoction, Gate to Phyrexia, Aura Fracture, Aura of Silence, and Umezawa's Jitte. Not only do they serve as good rattlesnake cards that deter your opponents from just putting their bombs on the field, but I've noticed blue decks only hold up counter spell mana on turns they might need it on. If you drop one of these early when they're not ready their counter spells won't be able to stop the card effects, and I can verify from past experiences that the blue players I go up against when using the cards I just mentioned hate them fondly because they know I save them for their combos which makes their job of combo-ing out much more complicated. In fact one card I've found more success with than I'd ever give credit to is Molten Vortex, because the number of utility creatures and win-cons it hits without needing to use prime removal spells is pretty big and as I said before it's another one of those spells that if resolved the blue decks are going to have troubles playing around with. The Vortex can remove Mizzix of the Izmagnus, Laboratory Maniac, Norin the Wary, Hermit Druid, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, etc. and even when I don't have a land to pitch to it I've found it's presence alone is enough to deter plays entirely. Shattering Spree also plays well against blue, because not only can it hit multiple targets, but you can hit the same target twice or three times which would require more than one counter spell to stop a key combo piece being removed if needed.
As for multiple combat steps or a super massive army being swung your way you already can use Ghostly Prison, but if you need more options Norn's Annex can also work as well as Orim's Chant which not only stops combat but can also be used but can also stop storm or certain combos if you cast it at the right moment. It should also be noted that Rule of Law as well as the aforementioned Damping Sphere also does a marvelous job of stopping storm as well. Lastly if your opponents gaining life is an issue I think Rampaging Ferocidon makes a good option, because it can also punish your opponents if they try to build an army, so it fits two functions rather well, and I find the menace handy if you ever need to punch into a super-friends deck.
1 month ago
While a mill deck in commander is hard to create, as most of the usable/good mill cards target, it is a lot of fun to play. Discard is a little easier, but not by much. Also, the best colour combination for this type of deck is U/B and Atraxa has two extra colours that don't really help as well as her ability not synergising very well with mill or discard. Anyway, you asked and I shall try to deliver.
First the milling essentials: Glimpse the Unthinkable is the best mill spell bar none and is required. Secondly Increasing Confusion is quite good for commander, as mana totals will get quite large. Thirdly, Mind Funeral is great, as is Mind Grind. Fourthly, Mind Sculpt and Tome Scour mill for 7 and 5 respectfully, which is not too great, so only run them if you feel like that small amount of mill is extremely useful. Fifth, Hedron Crab is a great one drop due to the mill 3 per land you drop. Also, speaking of one drops, Jace's Phantasm is a good creature that soon becomes great with mill and discard. Sixth, Nemesis of Reason is stupidly good as it mills 10 per attack! It doesn't even need to cause damage! Startled Awake Flip is a nice mill spell and recurs too. Another great creature, and my recommended commander, is Szadek, Lord of Secrets. His milling will get massive really fast. All you need to do is get him in unblocked. Use Rogue's Passage or Whispersilk Cloak. Some good beaters are Consuming Aberration and Sewer Nemesis. If you don't care about price, then Jace, the Mind Sculptor is awesome, but if budget is a thing Jace Beleren is a nice cheap replacement. Now onto the milling combos! Traumatize and Fraying Sanity completely destroy an opponent, as does Keening Stone and Fraying Sanity. Archive Trap and Ghost Quarter are great together, as is Maralen of the Mornsong and Archive Trap. Also, Ghost Quarter helps get rid of land for Mind Funeral and Mind Grind. Lastly, Jace's Erasure and any card draw is quite nice. Thats about it for mill, now onto discard!
First off you need Waste Not. It is beautiful. The Rack works when you have made them discard down to 2 or less, which is one of your goals. Quest for the Nihil Stone and Shrieking Affliction are like The Rack - dealing small damage when opponents don't have hands. Liliana's Caress and Megrim do small amounts of damage per discarded card, which is nice. Bottomless Pit helps keep opponents hands empty, as does Necrogen Mists. Oppression is awesome, as is Painful Quandary, and both together is god-tier. Underworld Dreams is nice little 'screw you' after they loose their hands. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur murders everyone but you late game. Nath of the Gilt-Leaf is goddamn beautiful and breaks even more when you have Sadistic Hypnotist, Nezumi Bone-Reader and/or Mind Slash out. Another awesome combo is Mindcrank plus Bloodchief Ascension with three counters and any discard to an opponent means you kill them. With Dark Deal or similar you win. While these two things are great and all, you need some utility and a way to keep you alive when you suddenly become the target.
To stay alive, you need some pillowforts like Propaganda and Ghostly Prison. Cards like Frozen AEther and Kismet will help keep the opponent's board from becoming too overwhelming and Standstill will prevent spells for a small while. Psychic Spiral is another great spell that gets back all of your mill spells and it also mills an opponent for a little too. Talrand, Sky Summoner is fun with all the spells you are slinging, and he provides an alternate win condition. Another alternate win is through infection. Cards like Flesh-Eater Imp, Hand of the Praetors, Phyrexian Crusader, Phyrexian Juggernaut, Necropede, Putrefax, Plague Stinger and Corpse Cur all win you the game when they deal 10 damage to an opponent. Also, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon is a good option but is quite expensive. Cards like Giant Growth make you win harder. Infect is where Atraxa shines due to the added poison counters to each opponent every time you finish your turn. Adding Contagion Engine might even make your opponents scoop.
Good God, that is a big slab of writing. Here is a deck list I made for you: Atraxa makes you loose your mind!. Tell me what you think!
1 month ago
Nice deck so far but I would change some things. I expect you want to cast your Commander as soon as possible. So I would add more ramp to your deck: Quirion Elves ramps, fixes mana and is an elf. Also Elves of Deep Shadow and Fyndhorn Elves. Another way are aritfacts. Commander's Sphere is nearly an autoinclude for every edh deck. I would cut Shrieking Affliction, Liliana's Caress, Bloodchief Ascension and Megrim as in Commander this cards have not enough impact on the board when everyone has 40 lifepoints. Also Dark Deal as mentioned above is an absolut must have for a Nath deck. Another good card is Champion of Lambholt. Other cards to cut:
- Deadbridge Shaman to situational
- Myojin of Night's Reach to late. Run Bottomless Pit and\or Necrogen Mists
- Avoid Fate to situational but depends on meta. Maybe in your playgroup it is ok.
- Radiant Fountain and Zhalfirin Void because you run to many lands that only produce colorless mana.
- Prowess of the Fair because you don't need it.
I hope this helps.
1 month ago
For more discard you can put Bottomless Pit and Nezumi Shortfang. As far as mana rocks go I counted 11 and thats a bit much for aggro deck. Charcoal Diamond and Rakdos Cluestone don't seem good enough to warrant a place in the deck. Rogue's Passage is a nice utility land and you can even finish someone off with an unblockable Rakdos. Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace is a very nice discard land too.