At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player discards a card at random.
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Bottomless Pit Discussion
2 weeks ago
If you intend to play this is a FFA, then I would highly suggest dropping most of your targeted creature removal and discard. In 4 player, those are significantly less good since removing 1-3 cards out of the potential 21 cards in hand you are facing isn't very good. Instead, your removal should be as wide reaching as possible. A good example of this is Beast Within.
Also in 4 player you don't need as much targeted removal because there are 2 other people who can deal with it at your table. For discard, I suggest Bottomless Pit and Necrogen Mists for you discard. I'd also add artifact ramp like Sol Ring because it ramps you way faster than land ramp.
Also if you are interested, here is my Nath list, Combo? Where We're Going, We Don't Need Combo, which includes a primer at the bottom which you can take some inspiration from if you want.
Hope this helps!
2 weeks ago
chaosumbreon87, Um... you missed the bit where you're wrong on more than half of that...
Bontu the Glorified - T4. Sac outlets are good when they affect the board or give you card advantage. If I wanted this effect I'd play Zulaport Cutthroat and only have to pay once. Also, if I wanted a commander that's just a sac outlet in the command zone, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim is way better. (Hell, even Yahenni, Undying Partisan is better.)
Oketra the True - T4. I don't understand how people are slapping a T5 label on her when Heliod, God of the Sun is T4. They're practically the same, but with warriors instead of clerics. (Also Oketra doesn't get a neat interaction with Skybind, which is sad, but it can't be helped.)
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamu - T5. Good colors but literally no effect on the game.
Neheb, the Worthy - T4. Even if he's just a Stronghold Rats in the command zone, stripping your opponents' hands while setting up madness and reanimation is good a 3 mana. I play all of the following in black, Oppression, Necrogen Mists, & Bottomless Pit, so Neheb should be able to function just fine.
Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Tentatively T2.5. Even if you just load up on tutors, stall and draw with snake tokens, and try to combo out, being half of a low-cost infinite combo in the command zone is good competitive points.
Hotcake_Gotsyrup: I mean, it doesn't stop all infinite combos, but that's a good way to look at it. Are there any Hatebear/Stax commanders in red that would like this guy?
2 weeks ago
sonnet666, thanks for the advice. Here's how I'll change my list, given your input.
- I'll swap out Anthem of Rakdos for Gratuitous Violence, you're right there, no contest.
- Grave Upheaval will be sticking in my list, mainly because I think the basic land cycling is how I'll quite often use it, and if I'm desperate to reanimate something, I'd rather I cast on my turn and the creature has haste. Put those two together on one card, overcosted though it is, and the modality is what has me sold.
- Dark Withering never actually made it to the previous cut, because I felt the same way about it as you. Terminate is already taking up that spot. So spot-on insight there.
- Once again, the modality on Kolaghan's Command is what has me sold and I've actually used all 4 modes in one commander game before.
- Library of Leng will be staying in my list, (I know this reason is so scrubby it's unreal) mainly because it negates the negative feeling of discarding a card I really wanted to play, my list doesn't feature much graveyard recursion.
- Larceny is just a smidge off curve for my list, so I'll not be adding it in, but it would probably go well in a different build.
- Megrim and Liliana's Caress are getting the axe, but Quest for the Nihil Stone is going to stay because it actually works well in the list. So, out come Megrim and Carress and in go your recommendations of Bottomless Pit and Bloodchief Ascension
- Finally, because of the theme that I'm trying for my list, I'm not putting cards like Phyrexian Arena or Geth's Grimoire in, but they would probably make the cut in someone else's list.
So yeah, thanks. Some pretty good suggestions. When they finally put Neheb, the Worthy in the cardlist here on TAPPEDOUT, I'll post my list on this thread.
2 weeks ago
DeckedGuru, While I don't think you're going in the wrong direction, you listed a lot of sup-par cards right there:
- Anthem of Rakdos, Gratuitous Violence is practically the same thing, but all the time.
- Grave Upheaval is a highly overpriced effect when Reanimate, Dance of the Dead, Animate Dead, Necromancy, Coffin Queen, Feldon of the Third Path, and Dread Return all exist, and Dread Return even functions from the graveyard.
- Dark Withering, just because discard is your theme doesn't mean you have to include mediocre removal spells just because they fit your theme. You don't see me running Irradiate in my artifact decks for the same reason. Dark Withering can basically only be cast when you can discard a card, making it a pseudo-sorcery, and is outclassed by other all around good removal in these colors, like Terminate, Tragic Slip, and Malicious Affliction.
- Kolaghan's Command, I know it's a beast in 60 card formats, but all of those modes are pretty useless in EDH, except the artifact removal, but that's outclassed by Shattering Spree, Vandalblast, and Goblin Welder.
- Library of Leng, capitalizing on the cards you're discarding being in the graveyard is a million times better than basically guaranteeing you're not going to draw any new cards.
- Pain Magnification, this one is actually pretty good, but this is a friendly reminder that Larceny exists and is amazing.
- Megrim, Liliana's Caress, and Quest for the Nihil Stone, unless you have a full set of Wheel of Fortune effects, these guys end up having way less of an impact than you'd think they do in a 40 life format. Same goes for The Rack. Bloodchief Ascension on the other hand, is typically strong enough to include anyway.
- Necrogen Mists, this one's also not bad, but you forgot all of its siblings: Bottomless Pit, Oppression, Stronghold Rats, and Creeping Dread.
As far as the hellbent theme goes, I wouldn't focus too much on it, since Neheb's effect isn't that great, and there are only two hellbent card worth including, which also aren't that great... Instead if you focus on just capitalizing on the cards you're throwing in the graveyard and stripping away your opponent's hands, then you can still draw lots of cards without being counter to your main strategy. Stuff like Geth's Grimoire and Phyrexian Arena can keep you flush while your opponents struggle to have things to play, and Mask of Memory fits really nicely here since our commander is low cost and is going to be attacking.
2 weeks ago
Gibbering Descent - seems good, wanna add
Oppression - have to test that, but it might be funny
Teferi's Puzzle Box - no discard, no dmg - I do not think this card is on theme
Whip of Erebos - reanimation and lifelink, that's what I was looking for. Ideas what to cut?
2 weeks ago
Das sind so die Sachen, die mir spontan zu Lili einfallen. Alles sehr discardlastig, bin mir nicht sicher wie viel man ohne Probleme spielen kann. Generell finde ich, dass du wenig draw hast, aber auch das mag funktionieren, kannst dich ja fix in ne Potence tutoren.
An sich gefaellt mir die Geschichte schon sehr gut, ich glaube es sind nur persoenliche Abneigungen die mich manche Karten herausnehmen lassen wuerden.
4 weeks ago
I would also add Volrath's Stronghold to reuse creatures that you end up discarding.
Hope this helps!