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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
: Gain .
, , Sacrifice Dreamstone Hedron: Draw three cards.
1 month ago
Dreamstone Hedron Sky Diamond Charcoal Diamond Ebony Fly Prismatic Lens Everflowing Chalice Predict Giant's Amulet Curator's Ward Sphinx of the Second Sun Displacement Wave Dismal Backwater Temple of the False God Replicating Ring Dimir Locket Temple of Deceit
1 month ago
Profet93 Thanks for the recommendations.
I have messed around with Mystic Forge and it's associated combo a bit but I ended up cutting Sensei's Divining Top as I felt that it was unnecessary more often than not and not having ways to shuffle consistently made it way worse if I didn't have a way to go infinite with it. I mighy try Mystic Forge again but I felt that it was too slow in my testing. cEDH nowadays has the "turn 3 rule" where you need to be threatening a win or overwhelming advantage by turn 3 consistently by turn 3 if you want to be relevant. From my testing, cutting a lot of the random value pieces for extra ramp has allowed for a lot more turn 2 or 3 Eldrazi Titans and a lot more success against cEDH decks.
Manascape Refractor has been very good in testing. Mishra's Workshop is my personal favorite but it also copies Inventors' Fair pretty frequently. Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors makes it into a Worn Powerstone (which I already run). Bazaar of Baghdad and Eye of Ugin are useful as well, especially when I have access to Unwinding Clock and can repeatedly activate a random tech land every turn. At one point, this deck ran Candelabra of Tawnos as a way to repeatedly use tech lands but I would argue that Manascape Refractor is a much better way to accomplish that. High Market, Homeward Path, etc. are also surprisingly useful. On that topic, using it as a High Market with access to infinite mana through Rings of Brighthearth + Voltaic Key + Chromatic Orrery (also gives infinite untaps of all artifacts) allowed me to win once as I didn't have access to a different way to sacrifice and recast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth.
I had no idea that Soul-Guide Lantern even existed. I'm not sure if I would call it a strict upgrade to Relic of Progenitus but it is definitely good. I might swap out Tormod's Crypt for it so that all of my graveyard hate can be cycled if it isn't relevant.
Regarding the Metalworker combo, a lot of the primer is outdated. I tried updating it a few times but I ended up changing out 20ish cards so I figured I would wait until I had a pretty stable list to update it. The Metalworker combo is absolutely a backup option though. Typically by the time I would go for that combo, I would have access to casting Kozilek. As for Field of the Dead, I am not a fan of tap lands and roughly 1 out of every 20 games with this deck would even go long enough to get to 7 lands for it's ability to be relevant. I think Field of the Dead would be good in a casual meta but I try to play this at cEDH tables as this deck is ridiculously unfair to play at casual tables.
Reliquary Tower is a good budget option but it might as well be a Wastes with the way the deck runs most games. I typically mulligan for some form of acceleration and try to immediately get to 10 mana which usually empties my hand. Kozilek will get me a new hand, but very rarely will I pass with more than 7 cards in hand, and if I do, I haven't had the scenario yet where I had to ditch anything useful.
The main form of drawing power in the deck is my commander. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, War Room, Ugin, the Ineffable, sacrificing Mind Stone, Hedron Archive, or Dreamstone Hedron are the only other ones I have for card advantage. This deck is basically an all or nothing deck intent on playing really early Eldrazi Titans, going infinite, or playing stax to slow everyone else down (usually some combination of the 3). As colorless does not have access to particularly great interaction, I have tuned the deck to be about as fast as physically possible. Most games I am able to cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth on turn 3 or earlier (admittedly almost always at least 1 mulligan for fast mana). Although some times people will have answers, that early in the game is enough to cause problems for most decks. The plan from there is to either just kill my oponents or do as you said where I cast Kozilek, draw some cards, ramp some more, and repeat. Although the situation will occasionally show up where the game goes long, this deck absolutely shines when it is doing terrifying things really early.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
4 months ago
Hi Anabasis! Since you asked for some feedback on the list prior to committing, I'll comment here since I can link cards easily. Let's begin with the archetype you are going for here, how it plays out with Braids, Conjurer Adept, how to make it run a bit smoothly. The archetype for this deck is "group hug," which is a bit of a misunderstood archetype that has gotten unnecessary bad rep in the past. Basically, a group hug deck built properly is one that has effects which benefit everyone, but benefit the player the most. The idea is that there is little incentive to target the group hug player because they are giving free stuff, and the free stuff nonetheless keeps every player more competitive, which takes more pressure off of the group hug player, who is then ahead in the value race. The most iconic group hug commander, for example, is Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis. This commander lets every player either draw an extra card or play an extra land each end step, whereas the Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis player gets to do both. Oftentimes what makes game uneven are some players encountering ramp or draw problems, and this evens things out and keeps them competitive. Usually players won't target Kynaios and Tiro because it is benefitting them, and because it is not inherently threatening. Nonetheless, the Kynaios player is ahead in the value race, and usually plans to win with some sort of alternate win condition like Approach of the Second Sun. Braids, Conjurer Adept plays out similarly, in that every player benefits from Braids, but unlike your opponents your deck is built to exploit it, and you will have scarier things to cheat out than they will. The difference with this deck, however, and this is the critical part, is that your deck will be inherently threatenting. People will soon figure out that you are dropping scary things and have plenty of incentive to kill braids. What's worse is that the way Braids works inherently gives them added incentive to do so. The scariest words on the card are "at the beginning of each player's upkeep" are ones you will come to loathe if you don't build this right. These words mean that if you play Braids normally, each of your opponents will get to use Braids before you do. This is bad, because after three opponents have used it, the third could kill Braids before you ever get to use her. This is the nightmare that should ever be in your mind when planning or playing this deck, but if you are mindful of it, it can be overcome. So let's think first about Braids' abilities and how to best protect and exploit her to your benefit over your opponents.'
The first is to do lots and lots of what blue does best, namely, countering spells. Whereas Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis are a pillowfort group hug deck, you should think of your deck as a control group hug deck. Forget the crappy boardwipes like AEtherize and Aetherspouts. You probably included them because you've sensed they won't hit your board, but you'll find that smart players never attack with their most important pieces, and that they won't generally do what you want them to. Spectral Deluge and Whelming Wave are probably fine, but leave the rest out- you're better off just stopping things from happening to begin with than wiping a board that will probably be in your favor. Counterspells are good here for two reasons. First and foremost, they protect Braids from removal, which will be their most important duty. Beyond that, since you're getting a free permanent every turn, you have the luxury of holding your mana open, so you might as well have stuff to do with it! I'd think about playing up to ten different counterspells along with premium blue targeted removal like Reality Shift, Ravenform, etc.
Since the weakness of Braids is that our opponents' get to use her first if we cast her at sorcery speed, we might as well rewrite the script and try to play her at instant speed where feasible. Leyline of Anticipation and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir can help with this. You'll enjoy much more playing Braids on your opponent's end step and getting to use her first than the reverse. This will also aid and abet your counterspell game, in that if you don't need to counter anything you can cast other spells on your opponent's end step rather than wasting your mana. I see that you included these spells, but I wanted to make sure that you realize how critical they are to your game, and that if you can find more of this effect it will be worthwhile to include it.
A third implication is that, in the true spirit of group hug, you should get to use Braids more than your opponents. It's only fair after all! Therefore cards that copy triggered abilities like Strionic Resonator are at a premium here. Braids is far better if you get to use her twice and your opponents only get to use her once.
You also need to rework your ramp section entirely. The general rule of commanders and ramp applies here, namely, that you mostly want to play ramp that can get your commander out a turn early. This means one and two mana rocks primarily, unless it can get extra lands out. Dreamstone Hedron and Hedron Archive are traps and will make you cry. I know the theory is that you can play them for free with Braids, but keep in mind that they will never help you cast Braids. Also, they tend to be removal targets, and you'd probably be putting out something threatening over a mana rock anyway. Caged Sun is definitely worth it though because of the overall value, and because it will be worth it even to double your mana for one turn in order to cast a massive x-spell. Armillary Sphere is just bad here. Importantly, it is not a ramp spell since it doesn't put anything onto the battlefield. When people do play it, it is just for color fixing in multi-colored decks, and you don't need that. It'd be better to just play more card draw so that you can draw into your land drops normally. Sol Ring, Mind Stone, and Thought Vessel are fine, but you want to add Wayfarer's Bauble, Sky Diamond, and Coldsteel Heart at least. Sword of the Animist and Dowsing Dagger Flip are also fabulously repeatable ramp that always makes me smile. Dreamscape Artist is also a sleeper blue card that can repeatedly ramp lands onto the battlefield which is often overlooked. You'll be far happy with these efficient options that can either get Braids out early or get her out on time with mana to spare for counterspells than with the big splashy cards.
Also, as far as card draw goes, I wouldn't take group hug to far here. You are already giving your opponents free permanents, and you are in the best card draw color and don't need their help in that. Personally I'd recommend skipping Kami of the Crescent Moon and the like entirely, and play more personal draw spells like Gadwick, the Wizened and Blue Sun's Zenith. Seriously. One advantage of Braids is that they will play spells for free and run out of stuff to cast, whereas you can keep drawing into it. If you help them out too much, you're just hurting yourself in the long run. I'd honestly replace all the reciprocal draw spells with spells which draw you cards. The only one that might be ok is Well of Ideas, but that one is benefiting you more and you first, so it fits the bill.
Some more cautions. While casting free haymakers is the reason for this deck, don't overdo it. You want to be able to afford to hard cast stuff sometimes, both in case Braids dies or just to amass more of a board presence. The power curve in magic has been getting lower in recent years, and there are many devastating spells that cost four and five mana, so don't sleep on those. Your average cmc here is 4.5, and while some high cmc haymakers are what you want, you also want lots of castable creatures.
I'm also not sure why we are playing the "creatures become every creature type" cards. Is this for better board wiping with Whelming Wave or synergy with Spawning Kraken? In my experience these synergies won't work out enough to justify the card slots, which might be better filled with counterspells or other creatures. Honestly, if I were to pick another theme to support this archetype I'd pick blink, since you doubling ETB counters can be great, but that's just me. Blinking is the sort of thing where you don't need to do a lot of it for it to be good.
A few other card choice matters. Reflections of Littjara only works on cast, so it won't copy creatures played with Braids. Definitely consider this before including a five mana enchantment that doesn't affect the board right away. Also, yes, absolutely play High Tide. It is so worth it in a mono-blue deck. Yes, Frozen Aether is amazing here. this is absolutely how to play group hug. Your opponents get free stuff, but it is only fair that you get to use your stuff first. Personally, I feel like Ominous Seas is one of the most overrated commander cards in recent years. It seems like you get a great rate on a vanilla 8/8, but often the enchantment will get blown up first, and it takes forever to come out. That's just my opinion thought.
One final thought, don't prejudice yourself too much in favor of sea monsters over against, say, eldrazi. I know the chase eldrazi are expensive, but Artisan of Kozilek is under one dollar in real world money and a wonderful thing to play with Braids, and to make copies of with your copy spells, and to give haste to with Crashing Drawbridge. You will have so much fun.
I think this will be a great deck and you have a lot of good ideas going here. I'd just refocus it a bit and then wreak some havoc!
5 months ago
Some cards which I think should be cut because I think they are not too great or have fallen out of love with them are: Inkwell Leviathan, Jhoira's Toolbox, Myr Battlesphere, Myr Enforcer, Scarecrone, Willbender, Brittle Effigy, Darksteel Ingot, Dreamstone Hedron, Lux Cannon (unless you have a way of getting counters more quickly), Staff of Nin, Tower of Fortunes, Trading Post, Dismiss, Dissipate, and Dream Fracture.
8 months ago
Hey, nice version, but the manabase hasn't been as upgraded as much as the rest of the deck, you forgot Command Tower.
Because you have Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger do you really need lots of other big creatures? Most creature board wipes are good with Eggs because even if Atla will die to the wipe she will trigger for each Egg that also dies. All your opponents creatures die and you're left with a battlefield of creatures from Eggs. Avacyn and Ulamog have indestructible making them survive board wipes that destroy or do damage.
Vanquish the Horde and Blasphemous Act are powerful creature board wipes in multiplayer Commander because they care about the number of all creatures from all players on the battlefield. Wrath of God and Day of Judgment are the traditional four mana ones and Austere Command is very versatile. Fanatical Devotion is a nice budget sac outlet for Eggs since it can protect Atla from most board wipes.
Consider more ramps sources especially two drop or less ramp that's not creatures can help with Atla?
The manabase here has a few good lands (Mesa, Orchard, Glade, Shrine, Panorama), but most are subpar for much lower budget decks. Temple of the False God is a not a good land; my advice is cut it from all your decks even decks with green which have land ramp. Needing five lands just for Temple to be able to make mana isn't worth it. The Life lands such as Blossoming Sands, etc. are lackluster since 1 life gain is not worth the land always ETB tapped. If you're on a budget for lands then consider these for upgrades?
- Command Tower
- High Market: sac outlet.
- Battlefield Forge
- Canopy Vista
- Overgrown Farmland
- Path of Ancestry
- Game Trail
- Fortified Village
- Furycalm Snarl
- Alpine Meadow
- Sungrass Prairie
- Mossfire Valley
Some cards to consider cutting:
- Temple of the False God
- Ancient Ziggurat
- Blossoming Sands
- Kazandu Refuge
- Rugged Highlands
- Slagwoods Bridge
- Thornglint Bridge
- Wind-Scarred Crag
- Arctic Treeline
- Highland Forest
- Sudden Disappearance
- Soul Foundry
- Dictate of Heliod
- Brood Monitor
- Guild Feud
- Ulamog's Crusher
- Breaker of Armies
- Gruul Ragebeast
- Dreamstone Hedron
Good luck with your deck.
10 months ago
Sol Ring, Worn Powerstone, Sisay's Ring, Thran Dynamo Mind Stone, Hedron Archive, Dreamstone Hedron Hedron Crawler, Manakin, Palladium Myr Solemn Simulacrum, Burnished Hart, Wayfarer's Bauble Eye of Ugin, Eldrazi Temple, Sanctum of Ugin
1 year ago
Nice deck! It would be a little better if you add some good stuff cards for green like Overwhelming Stampede , or Pathbreaker Ibex which have the same effect, but one does it better than the other. Other cards to consider are some more ramp (even though you’re in green) like Animist's Awakening or the usual, Arcane Signet and Thran Dynamo are better than Dreamstone Hedron
plakjekaas on None
1 year ago
People deal with an early Blood Moon in EDH by using Arcane Signet and such, to still be able to cast your spells even if you run few basics, but an early Blood Moon will immensely slow down players who have 4- or 5-color decks. It's not considered a very fun tactic, but the higher in power level you play, the more valid it becomes as a strategy.
Most big threats like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger will make you arch enemy instantly, meaning all 3 other players set aside their differences until the most dangerous threat (either Ulamog, or it's controller) is taken care of. Most powerful plays in EDH are dealt with this way, that's why the format can allow more powerful cards than most constructed formats. The multiplayer aspect of many vs. one is an innate balance to running away with the game, until you take infinite combos into the equation.
Colorless is able to ramp pretty fast, even lacking green, you're just tighly bound to artifacts for doing so. Mana rocks are usually more efficient if they don't have to tap for colours. Sol Ring Mind Stone Prismatic Lens Worn Powerstone Thran Dynamo Hedron Archive Dreamstone Hedron Everflowing Chalice , there's a lot of colorless rocks to get you up to 9 as early as turn 4 or 5 pretty consistently. That's one of the few things the legendary Eldrazi have going for them as a commander, you basically play 90% artifacts, but artifacts are great at creating additional mana, so you're likely to cast your commander in a game anyway. How you're going to deal with everyone at the table wanting you and your commander gone after you cast it, is the follow-up problem though '^^