Death Cloud

Sorcery

Each player loses X life, discards X cards, sacrifices X creatures, then sacrifices X lands.

Discussion (51)

trippy_mcfly on Mono Black Death Plague

2 months ago

Cool deck. I'm here to offer some suggestions after you pointed me here from your other deck.

Tergrid, God of Fright  ^Flip is a powerful commander and generates insane advantage in 4-player games. Let's take a look at this deck and see what it is doing, and then streamline it. I see three main objectives of this deck:

1 - RAMPING.

This is pretty much a primary objective of any commander deck, since if your only source of mana is playing one land per turn, you're going to fall way behind. Your main ramping plan for this deck is to double lands, using Cabal Coffers, Cabal Stronghold, Caged Sun, Crypt Ghast, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and Nirkana Revenant. This is super cool and probably a pretty strong plan. We want to try to maximize this plan. How can we do that?

All of these cards want you to load up on basic swamps, which you did. We want to make sure we are playing a basic swamp every turn. Solemn Simulacrum is definitely a worthwhile add. Liliana of the Dark Realms is very helpful and I'm happy to see her in this deck. Often times Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is a worthwhile add for decks with Cabal Coffers. I think it is worth it here. Although you yourself don't have many non-swamps that will benefit from Urborg, you are likely going to be stealing people's lands with Tergrid, and counting those as swamps will be helpful for you.

How else can we keep getting swamps onto the battlefield to power up this strategy? Card draw. The more cards in your hand the higher the chance you will have a swamp to play every turn. Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood are great for this. Disciple of Bolas is solid too. Dread Presence loves swamps and is a must-add. I would add Phyrexian Arena, which is great card draw for you. Necropotence, one of the craziest cards in the game, is also a worthwhile addition. Not as good but worth consideration are Yawgmoth's Bargain and Null Profusion. Two other well-known card draw machines in black are Dark Confidant and Bolas's Citadel. You have some costly spells in your deck, so they might be a bit of a liability. If you want to include them, Sensei's Divining Top pairs very well with them.

Just because you are mainly ramping with land doubling doesn't mean there isn't room for other ramping as well. You have Black Market, which I have never personally tested, but is probably decent. Black has some explosive, single-turn ramp with Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, and Culling the Weak. These cards would do well in letting you get out expensive plays ahead of schedule, mainly Tergrid. Artifact ramp is also great in any deck. I would add Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Jeweled Lotus, and Jet Medallion. I would consider adding even more artifact ramp as well. Getting down Tergrid as early as turn 1 or 2 is just so good.

2 - SACRIFICE AND DISCARD.

Once you have Tergrid out, sacrifice and discard become powerful effects that let you take control of your opponent's permanents. This is insane advantage and if left unchecked for very long will win you the game. Syphon Mind while Tergrid is in play not only puts you up 4 cards in comparison to each opponent (since they each went down 1 and you went up 3), but also could net you 3 more cards if they discard permanents that then go onto your field. That's insane. Let's take a look at all the cards you have that enable Tergrid:

SACRIFICE:

Archfiend of Depravity - A one-sided, almost board wipe that repeats every turn? Pretty solid. Getting the creatures onto your field with Tergrid? That is nuts. The one issue is that some commander decks won't have that many more than 2 creatures on the field when this comes down, and if they do, then this card and/or Tergrid become a big target, but if you survive the turn, this and your commander will put you ahead so far.

Butcher of Malakir - Similar to Archfiend. If this guy sticks around for a bit, you're going to be at such an advantage. It costs 7 which is a bit high and very vulnerable to something like Mana Drain, so I wouldn't be super upset if you cut it, but it is great with Tergrid.

Gatekeeper of Malakir - This guy only costs three and steals a creature if Tergrid is on the field. Love it.

Phyrexian Obliterator - If someone is dumb enough to deal damage to this guy, then you're getting a lot of their permanents! I don't love this card for you. People will just leave it alone and then you just hit someone for 5 each turn or leave up a blocker, which is a bit slow.

Sheoldred, Whispering One - Similar to Archfiend. If this guy sticks around for a bit, you're going to be at such an advantage. It costs 7 which is a bit high and very vulnerable to something like Mana Drain, so I wouldn't be super upset if you cut it, but it is great with Tergrid.

Torment of Hailfire - Expensive and liable to be countered but if it resolves then you will get a ton of value!

Dictate of Erebos - I like it. Let's say you have 10 mana. Cast Tergrid, then somebody goes to kill him. Flash this card in. Now, you at least get 3 of your opponents creatures on the way out!

Grave Pact - I like this as well. You can't flash it in, but if you put this card on the field, then people will have to kill this before Tergrid comes down or else end up giving you their creatures.

The Eldest Reborn - Immediate impact with Tergrid on the field, pretty good value on its own. Definitely a keep.

DISCARD:

Liliana, Defiant Necromancer - You need to flip her first, but once flipped she is great.

Syphon Mind - Great.

Torment of Hailfire - Expensive and liable to be countered but if it resolves then you will get a ton of value!

The Eldest Reborn - Immediate impact with Tergrid on the field, pretty good value on its own. Definitely a keep.

... and that's it. We need more cards that are busted with Tergrid! The following would be great adds to your deck: Smallpox, Dark Deal, Liliana's Triumph, Plaguecrafter, Soul Shatter, Mire in Misery, Innocent Blood, Vona's Hunger, Death Cloud, Burglar Rat, Demon's Disciple, Fleshbag Marauder, Elderfang Disciple, Liliana, Waker of the Dead, Bottomless Pit, Fraying Omnipotence, Rotting Rats, Cunning Lethemancer, Merciless Executioner, and a personal favorite: Smokestack.

Notice that all of these cards are typically even trades (ex: I play Elderfang Disciple, going down 1 card, everyone else goes down 1 card.) These aren't great on their own since it costs you mana to do so, and, in the case of discard and sacrifice, the opponent gets to choose an asset that they are least upset to get rid of, making them actually below-even trades. However, they become insanely busted with Tergrid. (ex: I play Elderfang Disciple, going down 1 card in hand for a measly 1/1. But, I get a Carpet of Flowers, basic plains, and Birds of Paradise on my field? Now that's an amazing play). Therefore, the ones that are recurring are better, since they give you more chances to make sure they resolve while Tergrid is on the field. (ex: I play Cunning Lethemancer and my opponent kills Tergrid. Later in the turn I play Tergrid again, albeit for 7 mana now due to commander tax. Next turn, with the Lethemancer trigger, I get some great value!)

Here are some other cards that work well with Tergrid, although they only target one opponent: Sudden Edict, Hellish Rebuke, Pharika's Libation, Diabolic Edict, Duress, Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, Chain of Smog, Despise, and Divest.

Notice that in the absence of Tergrid, these cards are negative trades. They set you and an opponent back by putting you both down one card. The other two opponents are left untouched. Seeing them early in the game is not particularly helpful since you'd rather spend the early game ramping. They are great and slowing down whoever is winning, but at the expense of your own board. There is a trade-off here, since these can be leveraged politically. "Each opponent discards a card"" can give you tons of value with Tergrid on the field but makes you 3 enemies. "Target opponent discards a card"" gives you not as much value in general but you can leverage this to make someone else the common enemy or make a deal with a player ("if you don't attack me next turn I won't target you with my Duress"). Things like Duress can also target specific cards, which is an added benefit for you and an added detriment to the opponent.

I would run some from each category, probably with an emphasis on maximizing Tergrid value.

3 - DRAIN AND GAIN.

Blood Artist and other cards gain you one life and drain your opponent one life. This is cool and certainly an interesting archetype of a deck. It doesn't synergize with Tergrid particularly well. I personally would not use this strategy at all in this deck and maximize the Tergrid plan. However, Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond is an awesome combo and an unexpected way to finish the game for you while people are busy dealing with Tergrid. If you want to keep this, I would trim some of the other cards, such as Exsanguinate and maybe Underworld Dreams.

---

So, now that we know what the 3 objectives are, and have maybe cut the third, we have a bit more of a plan. I've suggested adding some card draw and mana rocks for ramp, and tons more Tergrid synergy. What are the cuts? I would say anything that doesn't fit in with the objectives, so basically any card I haven't mentioned already, unless it gives great value on its own. I'll go through some:

Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are incredible cards and provide great value. Diabolic Tutor, Scheming Symmetry, and Shrouded Lore are worse tutor effects and should probably be moved to the maybe board. Sudden Spoiling is interesting and stops somebody from comboing off on their turn so is probably worth it. Reanimate is good value and should probably stay, same with Animate Dead. Demonic Vigor protects creatures but not Tergrid, unless you want him going to your hand. This is risky but probably fine. I could see him getting countered and then removed from your graveyard which puts you back majorly, but I could also see you avoiding commander tax. Worth looking into. Undying Evil is strictly better since it has instant speed and keeps him on the field. We might also want to protect him with Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots

Coffin Queen is too expensive and vulnerable. Drana, Liberator of Malakir is cool for aggressive strategies and can help you close out the game but is out of place in this deck. Falkenrath Noble is an overcosted Blood Artist. Gonti, Lord of Luxury is a value creature that if you can get his ETB many times, which your deck can't really do. Grave Titan isn't worth it in this deck. Gravedigger is fine but might be a bit slow. Helldozer is probably not worth it unless you want to pick on somebody lol. Korlash, Heir to Blackblade is not worth it. Massacre Wurm might not be worth it. Nighthowler isn't worth it. Opposition Agent is always a good add. Phage the Untouchable is too slow and vulnerable. Sepulchral Primordial might not be worth it. Skirsdag High Priest is probably not worth it. Syr Konrad, the Grim is not worth it. Wight of Precinct Six is not worth it. Tainted Strike is not worth it. Lashwrithe is not worth it. That's about 15 cuts right there.

Props to you for building Tergrid and having an interesting ramp strategy. I think if you go more in on the Tergrid plan by cutting unrelated cards for cards that ramp or are good with Tergrid then your deck will be a lot more reliable. After all, the most fun part of this deck is going off with Tergrid!

Hope this helps.

burferking on Rakdos, Fraction Buster

4 months ago

Hello I have a similar deck, if you want to take a look: Rakdos Fractions Besides your maybeboard, I would suggest adding: Goblin Game, Blood Tribute, Heartless Hidetsugu, Fraying Omnipotence

Meaner cards: Death Cloud, Pox

Players hate land destruction, so use with caution!

psionictemplar on Braids pox

6 months ago

@zapyourtumor

First off I want to say thanks for your reply and interest in my deck. I'd like to take a second to follow up on your thoughts and say why I wanted to try what I did.

"You have some cards that don't add enough to your gameplan" section. 1. Greater Harvester probably isn't good, and I am willing to admit its something I put in here as a pet card. The general idea I had behind harvester being a sac outlet for flagstones (originally a 4 of) and any other random permanents I might want to lose. The upside I did see is that it will generally require a 2 for 1 to remove and if it happens to deal combat damage, all the better.

Regarding your suggestion of World Queller , it was a card I didn't even know existed. I like it and will consider it for future versions of the deck. Ideally, I would like the deck to be primarily black based with a small amount of white, if possible.

1. Tergrid is just something to help break the symmetry of braids. I intend to use this primarily for the front side, but I've considered the back side if I ever wanted to try and go in a full pox or even Death Cloud style of build.

2. Thalia taxing me a lot is a pretty accurate point. The only reason I really like thalia is for it's ability to block and slow an opponent down.

3. I just went with leyline for the free aspect. Your suggestion of virtue is probably better, because I do want something to make my creatures reasonable clocks. It also helps against things like Plague Engineer .

4. I got nothing on this one...just figured it fit the token theme.

5. Coffers doesn't have any real point, but I think about it like a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx . Maybe I should consider that.

6. Crucible is there to leverage braids some more. Side note, I meant to work in a Silent Clearing or two for card advantage.

"You should probably have more early game resource denial, lower your mana curve, and have more pieces that break symmetry" section.

1. I like smallpox, but always feel like it would destroy the things I want to keep on board.

2. This started as a 4 of, but I started trimming it back since I did not have a lot of plains in the deck.

3. Probably worth adding as pw pressure and synergy piece.

4. I don't mind having 4 since I really want to draw it and can sac/replay the next if needed.

5. No real thoughts on this one. Gut feel is maybe 1-2 as a suppliment to bitterblossom.

"Your only early game disruption is Thoughtseize. This is definitely not enough." I think this is a pretty fair point to make and the one thing I was certainly feeling poor about posting this build. I will probably work some of those suggestions in somewhere.

Sideboard stuff, I'll consider after I get a decent main deck and feel for what I might need from there.

Nick_V on CEDH Tergrid, God of Fright

7 months ago

forneyt My budget for this deck is higher then I would usually spend because I want it to be able to play in cEDH games (it doesnt have to be a win all the time deck but good enough to sit at the table). However cards over $80-100 each are probably a get if I can thing but a hard sell to spend $ to the wife. As my play group goes, I dont have one. Covid destroyed it. We are just now starting to open back up here in Vegas so I have no idea what I will be walking into at my LGS.

I would love Mana Crypt but I just don't have one and I only have Mana Vault in there for a early commander ramp. The Charcoal Diamond bugs me because of the comes into play tapped and that seems to slow for cEDH.

Possessed Portal is a win con if it resolves. By the time I get that out they should have almost no resources in had if not already hellbent. With my commander out as well they cant even top deck and everything they sac goes to me. The 8 cmc can be rampped as well I can even shave it down to 6 and protect it with Dream Devourer . Vilis, Broker of Blood I just do not personally like. The cmc means I would need to animate him out and I rather do that on more important targets. The card draw I could get from running Necropotence at a much cheaper cmc (still up in the air about that one though). He seems like a large amount of resources to just get returned to hand or countered just like Sheoldred, Whispering One and I rreally like her.

I do like Waste Not probably find a place for it.

So you might have something there. I didnt want to run Chromatic Lantern because of the cmc. Everflowing Chalice I like because it starts at 2 and at any point of the game if I draw it I could put more into it if i had the mana to spare. The Blood Moon situation is problematic so I might just do that, maybe in place of Mana Vault if i decide to drop it all together.

Malakir Rebirth  ^Flip is there as mana with a side of protection for my commander. Volrath's Stronghold is a very nice card just to rich for my blood.

Yes the maybe board is stuff I am considering as well as stuff I have pulled out. I like Gary and still may run him after I get my first 100 settled and tested I will move it around.

Geth's Grimoire may be a possibility. However I dont like the idea of giving the other players more answers. I want the hellbent and top decking much sooner then later.

Living Death is a card I may cut, I am not sure yet. I like the idea of all their boards getting sacked and becoming my creatures and I also get my graveyard back. Death Cloud is a win con. Mindslicer is the same kind of thing (with a sac outlet) I get all their permanents. Without a sac outlet I can beat away or hold as blocks. That is why I like this commander so much, "your stuff is my stuff.. Thanks!"

Dark Depths only works with Thespian's Stage . Vesuva enters as a copy so would have the counters on him. Thespian is already in play when copied so no counters. Either way this seems too meme for me :-)

I did notice a big flaw that you pointed out .. I have no sac outlet so Miren, the Moaning Well High Market Phyrexian Tower any of those might be a good add. I like Deserted Temple but it is close to that to expensive area because I dont have one.

Thank you for taking the time to give some help and advice, I appreciate it.

forneyt on CEDH Tergrid, God of Fright

7 months ago

I'm not sure what your playgroup consists of, or what your budget is, so I'll just rattle off some cards and (if needed) their budget alternatives, as well as what I would suggest replacing.

Mana Crypt or Charcoal Diamond in place of Mana Vault : 0-mana Sol Ring just seems strictly better, and the diamond generates colored mana, which is helpful for a low-CMC deck.

Vilis, Broker of Blood in place of Possessed Portal : You already have so many life loss cards, might as well profit from them even more!

Waste Not in place of Miasmic Mummy : Benefit from their discards even further.

Chromatic Lantern in place of Everflowing Chalice : Lantern fixes your lands that tap for colorless (or cabal coffers before you get it going), and keeps you from getting wrecked by Blood Moon by giving your "Mountains" the ability to tap for black.

Phyrexian Reclamation or Volrath's Stronghold in place of Malakir Rebirth  ^Flip: Repeatable reanimation really rocks!

I already see some other great cards in your maybeboard: Dark Confidant , Gray Merchant of Asphodel , Thoughtseize , and Necropotence among them. Confidant is "draw" without the "draw", which can be an important distinction for certain cards (cough cough Chains of Mephistopheles cough cough Nekusar, the Mindrazer cough cough). Gary is an alternate wincon and also replenishes your health after you drain yourself with your own cards. Thoughtseize basically is "I want this card in your hand" with your commander, and Necropotence is just a broken card that gives you more cards than you can cast.

I feel like your deck may be missing some draw power, so I would suggest Geth's Grimoire , the previously mentioned Vilis, and Howling Mine / Mikokoro, Center of the Sea . With all the discard potential, these last two shouldn't be a problem if your opponents get a couple cards!

For any combo of the above suggestions, I would consider cutting Living Death , Death Cloud , Tangle Wire , and Mindslicer . My reasoning for these four specifically is that they are too mana costly and also negatively affect your boardstate in a way that doesn't put you ahead.

Lastly, I have some land suggestions that I am unsure what to cut for because you already have a decent selection. High Market is a great land, along with its alternate, Miren, the Moaning Well . Deserted Temple can be an extra Cabal Coffers or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx . If you like to take risks, you could include Dark Depths for the classic Vesuva / Thespian's Stage combo!

MLS91 on Crippling Fear

7 months ago

Recently Added:

Maralen of the Mornsong Why: Locks people into hands with Opposition Agent

Grave Pact Why : Took place of Death Cloud , allows for better interaction with the board as well as just more synergistic with the deck

Read the Bones and Sign in Blood why: best card draw I could find as I can't currently afforded a Necropotence

Hymn to Tourach Why: I've been looking for more instances of discard for the deck

@Profet93 as a side note some cards im looking at including into the deck here shortly after some conversations wit ha couple buddies in the play group are as follows

Mindslicer ---> cut Ill-Gotten Gains / cut Sadistic Hypnotist

Insidious Dreams -----> cut: Diabolic Intent or another tutor???

Sedgemoor Witch ----> cut: IDK, i like the card because it makes tokens(think Tavesh/Skullclamp/Smokestack)

rdeller on Liliana, Defiant Discard

8 months ago

My biggest issue with Mind Twist is that it’s single target. It’s good, but it only really neuters one opponent. I’d rather hit everyone at once with a spell like Death Cloud . If black had better ways of recurring sorceries I might have considered going this route, but since it will like be a one time use, I’d rather go the mass discard route. If you mostly play 1v1 commander though I definitely agree Mind Twist is amazing

Raging_Squiggle on Windgrace Real Estate

8 months ago

My Windgrace deck has a snow-land sub theme for cards like Sunstone and Glacial Crevasses . Doing this in your deck would require swapping some of the random lands with snow basics, but I’ve never run into a problem with not having the needed color. The crevasse especially being good to protect Windgrace.

I’d probably swap out Wildfire for Jokulhaups . Same cmc, does a lot more though. Maybe throw in Obliterate and Death Cloud . All cards that keep Windgrace alive and well, while neutering everyone else. Epicenter and Impending Disaster are also good wipes in this deck.

Bonus points for running Possessed Portal . If the opponents don’t have a solution in hand, the game is over with that on the board.

Also a bit surprised you aren’t running Constant Mists in a deck that recurs and spits out lands so easily.