Thought Vessel

Artifact

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Discussion (50)

Optimator on Blood Diamonds

6 days ago

Thanks for the advice, ThoAlmighty!! This deck is one of my new decks built almost entirely out of cards on-hand. I bought the Venser's Journal, Gilded Lotus, and kind of bought the Torment of Hailfire and Exsanguinate for it and had the rest of the good (and bad) cards already in my collection in need of a home. As such, plenty of the card choices are not ideal or optimized. In a sense, this is a budget deck not looking for big-time upgrades yet. I'm aware that Deathgreeter and Falkenrath Noble don't synergize with my deck at all but they are just incidental lifegain and as early-game blockers. Definitely filler for now. Deathgreeter might have enough utility (in my meta) for his cost to stick around until I get something great for lifegain, such as Twilight Prophet or Exquisite Blood etc. I was thinking about replacing the noble with Ivory Tower since it's old and janky and one of those "works almost nowhere except this commander" cards. I want to play more games and see how important lifegain ends up being to me. Some decks run a shitload and some run almost none.

I've played five games now and in the three games where I played Ambition's Cost and/or Ancient Craving they have worked out. Ideally they smooth out my mid-game and draw me into more lands, ramp, and answers/removal to get up to Vilis. So far they have done so. I also don't have a ton of free-life-payment cards like Doom Whisperer so they serve as passable refueling for Vilis. More games will surely give me insight but for now I like them.

So far the ramp has worked out all right but I had an eye to add more already. I have twelve pieces (13 if you count Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx... oh to have a Cabal Coffers too!! Just gotta wait for Commander Legends). I usually have 7-10 in my decks so this is still feels like a good, high amount. I used to have Bubbling Muck and Dark Ritual in the ~105-card prototype but they were late cuts, reducing my overall ramp-card count without replacement. Five games isn't a huge sample size, to be sure, so I'm gonna feel it out some more before I make swaps. I would definitely add Thought Vessel as an early upgrade. I was also thinking of swapping the Leaden Myr for a mana rock that doesn't die to all my wraths.

Thanks again for your comments!

Goblin_Guide on

1 week ago

Mannface thanks for the suggestions!

I've had trouble with mana so most of these suggestions for cuts are helpful. I will cut Scour, the reason I've kept it so far is that it is basically my only artifact and enchantment removal outside of counterspells.

I want to get Necropotence; I don't own one yet, and this is my first opportunity to finally pick one up. I might end up cutting it, because I have noticed it doesn't always get me cards (I generally use it to just draw back to seven every turn, but it's generally only a card or two a turn, so not the best). I haven't noticed the life loss be a problem, though. As a black staple I think its worth it.

Exsanguinate is not a perfect win condition, but I don't have anything much better; if you have any suggestions, I would definitely replace it (maybe Torment of Hailfire?)

I've never had the opportunity to cast Deathbringer Regent, so I'm going to keep it for now (I own it so it's rather easy to get a hold of).

I was already thinking about adding more lands, so I will definitely add one more.

Thought Vessel is annoyingly expensive, but it is something that can go in any deck, so ... I don't know.

Conjurer's Closet should probably go in.

Thanks for the suggestions! I will try some of them out.

Peoni on Catrunner

1 week ago

The once a turn clause is definitely a drawback for sure, but I the way I figured it is if you have enough consistent card draw happening every turn then you're still getting to use the ability and you're finding other cards that will trigger it. More card draw never hurts, especially when your commander's activated ability can be a wincon depending on how many cards you have in hand. That reminds me, Library of Leng and Reliquary Tower both serve as pretty good budget options for holding onto all of the cards you'll be drawing, with Thought Vessel being a good but less budget option.

As far as drawing on everyone else's turns, the previously mentioned Runic Armasaur is a really nice choice. Some decent green instant draw you might like are Aggressive Urge, Benefactor's Draught, Bind, Feral Instinct, Inspiring Call, Lace with Moonglove, Lammastide Weave (lol), Momentous Fall (lots of tokens makes the sacrifice no big deal, especially if you get some big ones out there), Provoke, Skyshroud Blessing, Viridescent Wisps, and Vivify could be considered. Also the previously mentioned Verdant Rebirth. I'd say replacing the more situational cards that you'd usually be cycling anyway with cards that net you draw and share the same cost as the cycle should serve as replacements. For example Stinging Shot and Thornado are probably better off being replaced by some of the 2 cmc cards I just listed like Aggressive Urge, purely because in that case you're getting an effect and a card instead of just paying 2 to draw a card.

Gnarlback Rhino and Veil of Summer also have the potential to net you a card on another player's turn, with Veil being a good card all around and giving you some much needed stack interaction to get around enemy counters.

Squirrel_of_War on The Doom Song

2 weeks ago

@Snap157 great feedback. I have every card mentioned so I will be making a few of these suggested changes. Let me explain a few of these choices as well.

I'll be keeping:

• Mirrorpool for now, I may take it out but a land that can clone Gyruda sounds fun.
• Sire of Stagnation because I feel like landfall strategies are going to become more common after Zen Rising and I have a foil one and I love the art.
• Crush of Tentacles is in the deck for flavor reasons, I put it in instead of Cyclonic Rift.
• Rise of the Dark Realms just because I love big flashy plays that do dumb stuff.

Cards I'll be swapping out

• Ravenous Chupacabra, it's a single target so maybe I'll swap him for Slum Reaper, I don't know for sure yet.
• Thassa's Oracle, I had Doomsday in here but I took it out because I don't like ending games early. I play for fun and love long, grindy games. Maybe I'll add in a fail-safe like Dread so I don't kill myself with my own commander.

I'm still figuring out what to swap out for some other suggestions but I plan on adding Rhystic Study and probably Thought Vessel. I am currently running Thorn of the Black Rose instead of Phyrexian Arena because I could get her off a Gyruda trigger.

I really appreciate the feedback!

Snap157 on The Doom Song

2 weeks ago

Things like Fellwar Stone, Sol Ring, Prismatic Lens, Fractured Powerstone, Worn Powerstone, Wayfarer's Bauble, Talisman of Dominance, Dimir Signet, Arcane Signet, Thought Vessel, and Mind Stone would make a great ramp package here. I know you already have some here but I would take out Mirrorpool, Ravenous Chupacabra, Rise of the Dark Realms, Thassa's Oracle (if you dont have a way to instantly mill yourself), Conjurer's Closet, Sire of Stagnation and Crush of Tentacles. These are your lower impact higher cmc cards, and this will lower your average cmc so your deck will run smoother.

Additionally, I feel like there are some draw staples that are missing, such as Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Visions of Beyond (if you lean into the mill strat), Sign in Blood/Night's Whisper, and things like Brainstorm, Preordain, Ponder, and Read the Bones. Think about the higher cmc in your advantage section to replace for a few of these, I usually shoot for 10. hope this helps!

nevervail on Don't Tase Me, Zombro

3 weeks ago

Ramp I'd add: Talisman of Dominance,Arcane Signet.

Maybes: Mind Stone, Fellwar Stone, Thought Vessel, Jet Medallion, Charcoal Diamond, Sky Diamond.

DemMeowsephs on Arixmethes: Draw your deck

3 weeks ago

Hey there! I would recommend more ramp and some different lands! Maybe some of the following can be of use to you?

• Lands
• Yavimaya Coast
• Breeding Pool
• Misty Rainforest
• Botanical Sanctum
• Hinterland Harbor
• Flooded Grove
• Waterlogged Grove
• Skyshroud Forest
• Ancient Tomb
• Prismatic Vista
• Fabled Passage
• City of Brass
• Mana Confluence
• Reflecting Pool
• Exotic Orchard
• Strip Mine/Wasteland
• Forbidden Orchard
• Gemstone Mine

• Gemstone Caverns

• Now I understand some of these are bigger budgeted, but a good mana base is quite important in commander, and while you have a good landbase already, these could make it much smoother and help lessen the chance of mana problems! Not only that, but it is very important to have ramp, so you can play your deck faster. Around 7-12 ramp spells is the average, so I would recommend some of the following:

• Ramp

• Exploration
• Burgeoning
• Birds of Paradise
• Talisman of Curiosity
• Sylvan Caryatid
• Lotus Petal
• Selvala, Heart of the Wilds (If you keep Arix as your commander)
• Kodama's Reach/Cultivate
• Sakura-Tribe Elder/Rampant Growth
• Farseek
• Arcane Signet
• Simic Signet
• Nature's Lore/Three Visits
• Emerald Medallion/Sapphire Medallion

• Explore/Growth Spiral

• Again I know that's a lot, but I would seriously recommend all of them, they are extremely helpful! Now I wouldn't recommend ALL of those, but maybe chose are 10 that stand out to you! Ramp is extremely important so definitely try it out.

• That said, I have a couple more suggestions as well. Arixmethes is good, but I'm not sure how he helps with card draw or anything. Since you have a average mana cost of 4.40 (which is a lot) maybe Kruphix, God of Horizons could be a better commander? Or maybe something like Tishana, Voice of Thunder and Prime Speaker Zegana? I'm not sure but I think having a commander that relates to the deck could be a pretty good improvement. ALSO, since you want to draw out your deck, Laboratory Maniac and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries could be pretty good combos. If you have Leveler and one of these guys you instantly WIN which is pretty crazy! And if you have nothing in your graveyard, Paradigm Shift can have a similar effect. Maybe they are worth including? Oh and before I forget, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Thought Vessel are very fun in these decks :).

In the end let me know what you think! Did I miss anything? Or if you have any questions for me or want further help feel free to ask I'd love to help! If this does help be sure to check and support some of my decks: Double Trouble EDH, A Deal With the Devil EDH, and many others! Anyways though, hope this helps, good luck on your deck, and have a great day!!! Happy tapping!

Azdranax on Useful formulas for deck building

3 weeks ago

Interesting topic Ramble, I've been meaning to respond for the last day or two but have just been super busy, but let me provide a mana base formula I stumbled on a few years back after noticing a pattern in my deck building - might be something to try out and see if you find similar results, as I find it's very rare to get either flooded or mana screwed using this formula. I'll provide a couple of examples as well - more for the casual-competitive decks, as my cEDH decks don't always follow the formula as rigorously.

The basic formula for mana-producing lands is: Starting base of 30 mana-producing lands, plus additional lands equal to the CMC of your commander, plus additional lands equal to the average CMC of the deck, minus designated values for each mana rock, mana dork, mana spell and draw spell equal to or less than the CMC of the commander.

The first example is for my Zada, Hedron Grinder deck: Yada...Yada...Zada. In this case, the formula is 30 + 4CMC (commander) + 2.28 average CMC, or 36.28. I then subtract designated values for the following cards in the deck: -1.0 for Mana Crypt, -0.5 for Sol Ring (or any other 0 or 1 CMC rock), -0.25 for Thought Vessel (or any other 2 or 3 CMC rock), Battle Hymn, Brightstone Ritual, Traitorous Greed and Dockside Extortionist, and finally -0.10 for each of the draw spells in the deck: Accelerate, Boiling Blood, Crimson Wisps, Expedite, Fists of Flame, Stun and Renegade Tactics for a total reduction of 3.45 and a final value of 32.83 (rounded up to 33).

The second example includes a more aggressive reduction in mana-producing lands based on my Elf tribal Marwyn, the Nurturer deck: Elves Tap and Slap (Marwyn Tribal Counters). The formula here is 30 + 3CMC (commander) + 2.64 average CMC, or 35.64. I then subtract for the following cards: -0.50 for Sol Ring, -0.25 for Elvish Archdruid, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Gyre Sage, Incubation Druid, Llanowar Elves, Llanowar Visionary, Priest of Titania, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Viridian Joiner, Wood Elves, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Nissa's Pilgrimage, Rhonas's Monument, Gaea's Touch and Growing Rites of Itlimoc  ^Flip. Finally, I subtract -0.10 for Elvish Visionary, Llanowar Visionary and Inspiring Call for a total reduction of 5.30 and a final value of 30.34 (rounded down to 30).

Although the reduction values could be considered a little arbitrary in certain deck concepts, this formula has held pretty accurate since I started keeping track of it. I hope you find this useful in the future, and happy brewing.