Ice Cave

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Planechase Legal
Premodern Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Ice Cave

Enchantment

Whenever a player plays a spell, any other player may pay that spell's mana cost. If a player does, counter the spell. (Mana cost includes color.)

McToters on Mishra, Artificer Prodigy [BUDGET]

2 years ago

Heliogabale thanks for commenting! I should probably add a "how this deck works section"! So on first glance you're right, Mishra seems like an awful choice to pick as a commander, but there's something really neat to be reaped here if you look at the ability really close. The idea is to play a ton of artifacts but only after we get cards like Nullstone Gargoyle, Ice Cave, Planar Chaos, Blood Funnel and Possibility Storm out on the battlefield. These stax-y enchantments and Mishra's ability will trigger simultaneously when a spell is played. Having priority, we can choose to have Mishra's trigger first and then the enchantment. The artifact spell is then countered or sent back into the deck, and then Mishra's ability will trigger and we can play the spell anyway for no additional cost--all while preventing our opponents from playing spells.

That's the idea anyway--hopefully I explained that well enough. It took me a while to get but once I did I loved the idea. If you know of any cards that counter or send spells to the graveyard, hand or deck when hey are played then please let me know! The more types of those spells I have in here the better this will be--of course Nether Void is a card that fits but it is waaaaayyy too expensive.

Cheers!

dingusdingo on None

3 years ago

golgarigirl

Option 1: Functional Reprints

Yes Crusade has an alternate with Honor of the Pure, but before this ban a mono white EDH deck could choose to run both cards, now they are limited to one. Crusade should get another printing like Honor of the Pure but not Honor of the Pure so that decks can run both again. The other big one Invoke Prejudice is actually a shockingly strong hate piece for mono blue EDH, and there are no effects even close to replacing it. A functional reprint is exactly that -- it does the same thing as the original card, so no Ice Cave is not a functional reprint of Invoke Prejudice.

Wizards could very easily have printed a special edition card with the same mana cost, type, and abilities on the card, but with a new name and new art. Run a special promotion: Mail in your old racist card and receive the new special promotion card + a booster pack.

At the moment, they're punishing the player base for Wizard's OWN mistakes. The players didn't print the racist cards, they didn't commission the art and name for the racist cards, and they didn't contract a neo-nazi. The mono blue player who just dropped $200 on an Invoke Prejudice just got screwed for a series of mistakes Wizards made 20 years ago that went from design, to art, to playtesting, and approved by the higher ups. The players are the ones who take the ding in fun and in the wallet for the racist mistakes of a company. Plenty of people sought the card for the powerful and unique effect, and are now left with a very expensive card they can't play. Functional reprints to impacted players should be the bare minimum for implementing this ban. Gatherer should have the art and card hidden initially and include a note from Wizards acknowledging and apologizing for the mistake, but since it is a database for the game the card should be available see with a toggle option.

Option 2: Disclaimer

I agree that this one doesn't solve the problem in paper formats. It keeps the racist imagery and name in the game. On the flip side, the game also doesn't lose any complexity or amount of choices for deck building. This gives Wizards good-boy-points without making any real substantial change. It doesn't solve situations where a black player will come face to face with this card on the other end of the table. Its a half-measure, where Wizards understands clearly what they should do, but don't want to dip into their profits to correct these printings. I think this is a better option than a direct banning, but still disingenuous.

I highly disagree that we should sacrifice cards for the "greater good". First off, that's an extremely loaded phrase appealing to whatever masses you're imagining without making a solid argument. Second, the erasure of mistakes doesn't allow Wizards to take ownership of the mistake and promotes them sweeping it under the rug. The destruction of shitty history is still the destruction of history. They can't un-print the card, and it certainly looks like they're trying.

Option 3: Ban

Performative at best. I've seen many jaded responses elsewhere on the internet about how this is yet another way for Wizards to chip away at the eternal formats and push their newly printed sets. Personally? I think Wizards doesn't want to get targeted by woke twitter, and this is a preemptive step to protect 2020 profits and beyond.

Cleanse and Deck Usage

Challenging the data was to show that the data is incomplete and misleading. I didn't condone X% as an acceptable amount of racism, I'm talking about how the percent versus the actual raw usage is misleading. 6 decks using Cleanse in a racist way is unfortunate, one person could literally make all those decks in an afternoon. 26% sounds much scarier than the raw number of 6 decks. I can agree that any amount of racism is too much, but we need to also approach numbers in a way that tells the whole story. Removing the cards from the hands of 35 million players because 6 players can't use good judgement is a mistake in my opinion.

Closing Note

Caerwyn you should not tell someone they need to learn more about their culture. I know you are working with educational intent, but telling someone how they should interact with their own culture is racist. Never tell someone to learn more about their own culture, not only are you implying they have a deficit on their culture, you're also implying they have a responsibility to learn it. Check yourself.

golgarigirl on None

3 years ago

dingusdingo

I agree, it was a quick, attention-grabbing, lazy option for WOTC to take with these cards. But do we really need more? Honestly curious if there are constructive ideas besides the ban for those who find it that distasteful.

Option 1: Functional Reprints:

Would anyone play a functional reprint of Imprison? It would probably color-shifted into white or maybe blue, at which point the card pretty much exists already. What does a functional reprint of Invoke Prejudice even look like? Ice Cave, Erayo's Essence, and Decree of Silence are as close as I can see them printing. They already functionally reprinted Crusade as Honor of the Pure, and they don't print such wide-ranging color hosers as Jihad and Cleanse any more. I could see Jihad is a color-specific Riders of Gavony-type card. The two creatures don't even bear mentioning.

Option 2: Attach a Disclaimer:

This works fine in digital, but it's the paper copies that are the challenge. Someone playing the game isn't going to take time out to Gatherer search a card to see that WOTC doesn't approve. Putting an errata online doesn't do much for cards on a table, especially when it's the art or the card name that's the problem. The flavor is the problem. Not all parts of the history of the game need to be kept for posterity like they're a winning pro-tour play or something as ubiquitous or historic as Lightning Bolt or Black Lotus. Maybe some can be sacrificed for the Greater Good.

Option 3 The Ban-Hammer:

Not a great look, but at least (and most important for the company) it costs minimal resources.

One further comment...perhaps 28 decks out of the whole database is a statistically insignificant number, BUT we're comparing decks that run Cleanse for racist connotations to the ones that don't. At that point we're asking 'how much racism is too much?' Are we setting the racism tolerance at 15% or less? 10%? Is only 10% racist better than 26% racist?

Dyrek000 on tap untap combo

3 years ago

For how to use mana you can put it in Blue Sun's Zenith to mill opponent library by drawing them, if you prefere using blue you can use Dramatic Reversal to untap all your nonland permanent, not only creature. With infinite mana you can use Ice Cave to counter spell by paying mana or Decree of Silence. Another win ccondition can be Entreat the Angels, Finale of Devastation, Finale of Glory, Walking Ballista, Stream of Thought or something like this.

ShreddedByCrows on Surrakar tribal challenge

4 years ago

Cool concept, even if it's pretty hard to match. A bit of an easy take on your theme, but why don't you play some Shapeshifters as a way to have more Surrakar? Tribal cards also could help.

As Surrakars' living places are mostly wild forests and underground rivers, there's a lot to do with that without having to back up only on the Zendikar's expansions.

1.) River cards:

  • River of Tears not the best land you could find, but fits in there

  • Underground River certainly an essential

  • Bad River cheap fetchland fitting the theme

  • Rushing River great removal, really underplayed, fits the theme / you can try something revolving around self land destruction if you decide to give it a try (Crop Rotation, Crucible of Worlds, Wasteland, etc.)

  • River Kelpie interesting creature, which design feels otherworldly and weird, according to the Surrakars /n needs a graveyard gameplan to be effective, and that will seem fine (obvious synergy is [card:Cauldron of Souls] and it's a playable card in there) / pretty good interactions with Yarok / card draw

  • Carpet of Flowers staple in lots of decks for mana production, depends on your playgroup though

  • Dire Undercurrents excellent synergies with Yarok, enabling your creatures without etb-abilities to be more effective / card draw, card advantage

  • Undermine weird counterspell, not really that good, not bad either / illustration matches with the theme

2.) Cave cards:

3.) Cloning your Surrakars cards:

  • Mirror of the Forebears not the most flavourful one, but gives you a cheap way to get more Surrakars so it deserves being at least mentioned

  • Fated Infatuation same comment as for the Mirror, with the advantage of the more abstract card name / waterpoint in the illustration

  • Mimic Vat classic card, not the most flavourful

  • Wall of Stolen Identity more of a Ravnica-themed card, but worth mentioning

  • Phantasmal Image if you can alter a bit the card's image, it could be some Surrakar there / otherwise, it's a good card, and the illustration is strange enough to not injure your theme-deck-style imo

  • Metamorphic Alteration also a nice one

  • Mirror Image not as good as the others, still a wildish illustration style according well with Surrakars

  • Unstable Shapeshifter funny card, a quality+ illustration

  • Bramble Sovereign Surrakars also living in the Guum Wilds/Tangled Vale, this one feels really good / has some interactions with Yarok

  • Rite of Replication Zendikar-themed, water-themed, excellent card, good interactions with Yarok

  • Supplant Form let's just assume for a while that this is Surrakar's magic lel

  • Dual Nature yeh it is slow, but it is strong / interactions with Yarok

4.) Tribal outlet:

5.) Yarok outlet

6.) Other cards

I hope you'll find something helpful amongst those suggestions, keep on brewing and thanks for sharing it!

Chandra585 on Triple A [[Azorius Artifact Attack!]]

4 years ago

First off, Ice Cave isn’t really thematic or synergistic with a deck like this, and I think it’s actively bad in Commander because the rest of the table will be mad at you for letting their spells get countered. Daxos usually benefits from a much more Voltron-like strategy with more equipment. If you want to stay about here though, Tezzeret the Seeker is a good tutor. Other than that, you just need to upgrade your land base with cards like Glacial Fortress , Nimbus Maze , Skycloud Expanse , Port Town , and utility pieces like Maze of Ith

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