Sacrifice a creature: Draw cards equal to the sacrificed creature's power, then discard three cards.
|Have (4)||, , metalmagic ,|
|Want (3)||Darui , Av93 , JawnWayne|
Printings View all
|Double Masters (2XM)||Rare|
|Ninth Edition (9ED)||Rare|
|Ninth Edition Foreign Black Border (9EDFBB)||Rare|
|Urza's Saga (USG)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
- Greater Good + The Great Henge + Woodfall Primus
- Greater Good + Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Walking Ballista
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Greater Good Discussion
4 days ago
From your response, it's clear we have different deckbuilding styles and metas. My meta is litered with spot removal, if your meta if filled with board wipes, then you're golden because spot removal is worse for xenagos than board wipes as wipes cost more and are at instant speed.
You mention pressure, but say no to Elder even though he has trample? Sure he's not a dragon, but since you don't value card draw as highly as I do, then I understand your reasoning. For me, card draw is critical because you need to kill 4 opponents.
I mention CMC, which on a second look is pretty good for a Xenagos deck actually because my meta has decks which are pretty low to the ground (2.2-3.6ish) so being able to pressure your opponents before they combo off or develop a boardstate in which is difficult to interact with is crucial.
As everyone said above me, Greater Good is too good to pass up. Seriously. Even if your meta has board wipes over spot removal, you can still sac your beater to draw cards so it isn't wasted. The main use of this card is to sac your big beater after Xenagos pump in response to spot removal to draw cards, as your creature is dying anyways, you still get value.
You mention getting 1 dragon out and swinging for 10+, but how many times have you not been able to close out a game and are just top decking? I'm actually curious given how you described your meta, they seem much more casual than mine.
Draw Spell Mana Consumption - Yes a big issue, if you truly don't want to fine, but at the very least, bonder's enclave is a land so it doesn't actually take up a slot. Looking at your mana base and given we are in green, I think it can only benefit you, but it's not necessary.
You mention every turn your board keeps building, but if you're paying 5+ mana a turn for a creature, in a meta filled with board wipes, aren't they just wiping your creature you have on board until your next turn where yo u play a beater?
The Great Henge - I don't see how it's slow? It CMC is usually and pays for itself immediately.
Regarding Subpar cards....
I only now realized you were playing Dragon Tribal lol. But there is one in particular, Seedborn Muse. Muse is used in reactive decks, we are proactive, why not just get another beater rather than hoping to have an instant in hand with seedborn?
Concordant Crossraods - Given you are playing 1 creature a turn usually, why benefit your opponents with haste?
Asceticism - Wipes usually read can't be regenerated in my meta, so this only helps against spot removal which you said isn't much in your meta. Plus paying 5 mana to cast this and pass seems not optimal
4 days ago
So, there are several things you have misunderstood when looking at this deck, as it's one I have played and tweaked for the better part of a decade now and am very happy with it's current state. Firstly, the danger of Xenagos really kicks in when you can actually pressure an opponent, so it's best to stick with either trample or flying creatures exclusively, with the few exceptions of those that will really buff and support you such as Birds of Paradise and Oracle of Mul Daya. I chose to go with flyers, the best of which are largely dragons, because people generally do not have many fliers and are not prepared to deal with the power and pressure of many massive fliers suddenly appearing and swinging at them. As for the rest of the suggestions you have, and the part you misunderstood with him, is that you're focused on making more of a midgame and a recovery so you don't falter due to lack of cards. However, Xenagos doesn't really care of need that. Xenagos needs to get to 5 mana and get a single dragon out. One dragon. Then you are immediately swinging for at least 10 if not more, and every dragon has abilities and triggers that further pressures your opponent(s).
Greater Good is a fantastic card, but there are very few times that you want to be sacrificing your creatures since you will always be a massive target since Xenagos is always a threat. The same goes for Life's Legacy and Momentous Fall.
The problem with cards such as Return of the Wildspeaker, Harmonize, and Bonders' Enclave is that they take up most of your turn to draw cards. I have found that as a true gruul deck you don't want to let off the pressure on your opponents. You very rarely need more than a few dragons over the course of the game as Xenagos puts so much pressure on through doubling them and haste that losing an entire turn to draw more cards is a waste. I make an exception for Rishkar's Expertise because it does still allow us to drop a card and keep the momentum going.
Elder Gargaroth is indeed a good card, but it runs into the problem that it's effects aren't good enough for the deck. He is focused on the additional utility abilities, being lifegain, token generation, and drawing a card, which in any other deck are fantastic abilities. But here he doesn't put pressure onto your opponents the way cards such as Terror of the Peaks does. Everything about Xenagos is speed and pressure. You also run into the issue of him dying. With most opponents fielding very few flying and reach creatures when compared with the number of them in this deck, you rarely need to worry about your dragons dying. Every turn your board keeps building and the dragons have such destructive abilities (see Balefire Dragon for an example of such) that they have trouble keeping a strong board presence and fighting back. But all they need is one small deathtoucher, or any pump spell on one of their ground creatures and they stop your momentum. However, they will rarely have enough fliers to do that. That's a big part of the reason why we run so many dragons. Direct damage to your oppoenent, destructive effects to their boardstate (ex. Tyrant's Familiar), and constant psychological pressure and panic setting in. This is the way of the gruul.
Lifeblood Hydra is too slow. You need at least 8 mana to make him even a little viable, which is too much and too slow. My 8 drops are either extremely powerful, Utvara Hellkite for example, or i'm dropping a 6 drop and holding up a Heroic Intervention or something of that sort.
The Great Henge is also a great card, but again it's too slow.
Berserk is okay, but I prefer my creatures staying alive and pressuring on further turns.
Kessig Wolf Run Honestly just not good enough. The trample is largely unnecessary, and it eats up a minimum of 3 mana to have any effect, mana that can better be spent elsewhere.
Rancor Not good enough
Deflecting Swat Amazing card, but very rarely are cards single targeted any more, at least in my meta. Board wipes are more common.
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar Rather than this, I can just have another dragon which would do much more for my deck.
Sensei's Divining Top Another amazing card, but it just doesn't do enough in this deck.
Now, regarding the high CMC of the deck, of course it's going to be high. We're rushing out to 6 mana and then aggroing out from there. This deck doesn't look to play tempo with a whole bunch of smaller cards being played and set up. That takes too long and allows midrange and late game decks to set up too much. This deck is trying to ramp out and attack.
Finally, I have no idea which creatures you are viewing as subpar. The creatures in this deck are exclusively either flying to attack and pressure my opponents, or ramp/dorks to accelerate the deck, or protection in the form of Archetype of Endurance. If you would be willing to expound on that statement i'm curious to hear your opinion on which creatures could be better utilized.
I will say this, all of those suggestions are great and i'm always really happy to hear and see other people's thoughts on improving things. Other than Berserk and Ilharg, the Raze-Boar I have actually run every single one of those cards in this deck at one point or another. However, though many years and a lot of experience with him, this build is what I have found to be the most powerful and reliable one.
1 week ago
Garruk's Uprising has been one of my favorite new cards in a while. At 3 mana it comes down early, and can draw you a card immediately as long as you have a beater out which makes it good at any stage of the game. Then it gives you that incremental value that plays with your big guys pretty well since they're all HUGE. All that and the fact it also gives trample is almost too easy to include. Basically a strictly better Elemental Bond and it's been really good for me.
On another note, I agree with you about Warstorm Surge. I've always found it to be a little too slow for my tastes and I always would rather just play a big beater to be honest. Terror of the Peaks has been such an overperformer since I decided to put it in, and I'm seriously considering dropping warstorm for something like Defense of the Heart.
Elder Gargaroth is another one that's been really fun to play around with. I'm almost thinking it would be a better Soul of the Harvest. I'm a sucker for drawing cards, and Gargaroth is super busted, especially when you double its power and give it haste. Basically guarantees that you at least get to attack and draw when you first play it, and that it's big enough that it's unlikely to die to blockers unless your opponents want to go out of their way to kill it. The other effects are just gravy, and the fact that it can draw when it attacks or blocks, AND has vigilance makes this thing another wall of text like Kogla, the Titan Ape and Questing Beast.
Grothama, All-Devouring is a fun include, cause it can be sort of political if you need it to be, or just a 20/18 beatstick. I normally treat it as a draw spell for myself though. You can play her, pump one of your other creatures, and swing it at Grothama to draw a crazy amount or sac it to Greater Good. You could also play it right before you drop something like a Blasphemous Act to draw 13 cards or even hit a fat Traverse the Outlands.
1 week ago
Card draw! The most important two things in edh are ramp and card draw. Your ramp looks good but card draw is important! I recommend burst draw like Rishkar's Expertise, Greater Good, or even Selvala's Stampede. (Not really draw but gets you a ton of free dragons) Repeatable draw is also good Garruk's Uprising, Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner, Rhystic Study/Kindred Discovery ($$$), and Elemental Bond.
1 week ago
Decimate - 4 in 1 removal
Life's Legacy - Draw
Tooth and Nail - Wincon/tutor
The Great Henge - Draw, lifegain, pump
Deflecting Swat - Counter counterspells, redirect targetted removal, draw, extra turns and more, for free!
Heroic Intervention - In response to removal
Momentous Fall - See above
Soul's Fire > Fling - Since you don't need to sac the creature as an additional cost which is noteworthy around blue. The difference is minimal, but should be noted.
Berserk - Don't worry, malignus doesn't have trample.... Greater Good - If you listen to any suggestion, this is it. The most important card in your deck, hands down. Draw a bunch of cards, filter what you dont need, all in response to removal. Can't get any better
I have some ideas for cuts and other suggestions should you wish. Be sure to let me know what you think of each one and if you want others :)
2 weeks ago
Greater Good - The best card in the deck, add it immediately. If you listen to anything I say, this is it. Someone mentioned it before, don't sleep on this card. Seriously, I cannot under state this. If you add a cradle before adding this, then I am shocked
Life's Legacy - Be wary of additional cost to sac
Momentous Fall - Use in response to removal. Be wary of additional cost to sac
Return of the Wildspeaker - Use in response to removal
Harmonize - For much needed draw
Bonders' Enclave - Not needed but nice to have
Elder Gargaroth - Very useful
Lifeblood Hydra - Remove my creature, I dare you
The Great Henge - Ramp and card draw for cheap, very useful
Berserk - Don't worry, my malignus doesn't have trample.....oh you're gonna attack my other opponent, here, get buffed and die doing so! Very fun and versatile
Kessig Wolf Run - Don't underestimate utility in the mana base
Rancor - Makes a 1/1 into a 3/1 into a 6/4 trample.
Deflecting Swat - Counter counterspells, redirect targetted removal, draw, abilities, etc..... for free? Too much utility to ignore
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar - Cheats things into play for cheap, highly recomended
Sensei's Divining Top - Not needed but very nice to have.
I have other ideas of additions and cuts but don't want to overwhelm you. Be sure to let me know what you think of each suggestion as I think each will tremendously improve your deck. You high too high of an AVG cmc as well as some subpar creatures which can be swapped to be more efficient.
2 weeks ago
Some includes to think about are;
Oblivion Stone for removal
Pernicious Deed puts in work. It's a threat that keeps opponents from playing stuff until it's gone.
3 weeks ago
I love the list! Xenagos has become my pet deck at this point, and definitely my favorite commander by far.
Stalking Vengeance would be something I'd ask you to consider, because it has the potential to be a way more threatening alternative to Heart-Piercer Manticore. Granted, the manticore is 3 less mana to cast, but Vengeance checks every creature when it dies, so the damage potential is much higher. I've ended plenty of games by getting out Sneak Attack, then sneaking out the vengeance, and Blightsteel Colossus as well as any other big threats in my hand, and then sacrificing them at the end step (Or immediately to Greater Good) and instantly killing one or multiple opponents.
Xenagos is SO fun, and if you wanna take a look at my take on a build, you're more than welcome to!