Combos Browse all Suggest
- Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter + Power Artifact
- Dramatic Reversal + Sol Ring
- Basalt Monolith + Dramatic Reversal
- Dramatic Reversal + Gilded Lotus + Isochron Scepter
- Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter + Mana Vault
- Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter + Thran Dynamo
- Basalt Monolith + Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter
- Dramatic Reversal + Walking Atlas
- Dramatic Reversal + Gilded Lotus
- Dramatic Reversal + Panoptic Mirror
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
|Pauper Duel Commander||Legal|
Untap all nonland permanents you control.
23 hours ago
1 day ago
I wasn't able to get a whole lot of games in yesterday, but I had one particular game where I lost spectacularly for a few different reasons.
Here is the setup:
- Seat 1: Godo, Bandit Warlord
- Seat 2: Talion, the Kindly Lord
- Seat 3: Unesh (me) with opening hand Island, Mana Crypt, Arcane Signet, Dramatic Reversal, Spell Pierce, Island, Bloodline Pretender.
- Seat 4: Tymna/Thrasios
I'll hit only on the key points to this story. Turn 1 goes around and nothing crazy happens, Tymna/Thrasios plays a mana dork, I play out my artifacts holding up Spell Pierce. Talion turn 2 plays Mystic Remora, and I decide to counter it with Spell Pierce. This is the wrong decision on multiple fronts. (1) I am first priority, I should've let the rest of the table deal with it because (2) it doesn't actually affect Unesh that much when I want to cast creatures, & (3) letting Talion draw cards in this instance could allow them to combo before me, but that means Talion will consume the tables resources so I can combo off after. Talion passes to me. I play an Island and note that I can power out Unesh with Dramatic Reversal and my 2 artifacts in play. Because I countered Mystic Remora, I should have done this. Instead I pass and basically do nothing, because I didn't have protection for Unesh & I wanted to preserve the combo piece. I think even without protection, it is still a good play to get Unesh on the table. Using the combo piece here is okay because I can get it back using Mystic sanctuary later, and I already have a scalding tarn in hand to fetch it if I need to. Pass to Tymna/Thrasios, they play Neoform sacrificing their mana dork. Had I not countered Mystic remora, I could've countered neoform and paid the Mystic Remora Tax which is what I should've done. With no responses neoform resolves and he fetches Collector Ouphe. At this point I am out of the game for a few turns which was ultimately enough to make me lose to chip damage and mana crypt a turn or 2 before I can combo off. I did take third because I took out the Talion player by casting a spell while their library was empty (granted they misplayed).
There is always unknown in the fog of war and hind sight is 20/20, but there were definitely some things here I could've seen coming. I think the biggest take away I think is that Unesh naturally allies with another blue combo player if they are the only other one at the table.
2 days ago
GHoag I revisited the combos in the deck today and I see what you were saying about Lithoform Engine now that Dramatic Reversal is in the deck. Combo redundancy, and very useful abiltiies by itself. I think it is strictly better than Argent Sphinx, so I am going to make that change.
3 days ago
GHoag thank you for your most critical feedback. I agree with a lot you have to say on this. There are a few things I'd like to discuss further. I'll mirror your format so you know how I am responding to what. Thank you for the praise on the list so far, there is definitely some things to be worked out still. "The pinnacle is a concept only to the unambitious" -flavor text from a card I don't remember lol. (sorry for the novel below)
Regarding Fetchlands, I think the deck thinning is negligible or very hard to notice at most. This aspect of them definitely can't be a bad thing. But playtesting has shown that the negative effects of including them are negligible. I have never been upset about running all 4. Also, the synergy these lands has with Vantress Visions (Virtue of Knowledge) feels reeeally good.
Rite of Replication is expensive mana wise. The purpose of Rite is to get through your whole deck in one go assuming Unesh is on the field, which is not always the case. In my playtesting, it has been very hard to resolve due to mana cost, and when you do meet the mana requirement it is never safe from interaction. Given these flaws, this card might as well say "if you are targetting Unesh and this card resolves, you win the game." With the FOFs, you can pick up all counter magic and free mana rocks on the way down your deck to cast & protect Thassa's Oracle. A non-negligible side effect, this makes choosing piles easier to do because you no longer have to grab sphinxs or other wincons. This wincon is still relevant at this mana cost. I think the jury is still out if this is the best choice though. With inifinite mana you can do something similar, and I'll talk more about this below. Q: Why not add Personal Tutor? Simply because you don't need 3 copies of Rite. I already don't like Mystical Tutor, but the versatility to grab any instant makes it worth it. By the time you meet the mana requirement, you will have seen Rite or Mystical Tutor. Personal Tutor is too narrow to have in a slot, even on the 'Rite' plan.
cEDH meta talk, there is Turbo, midrange, and stax (early win, midgame win, lategame win respectively.) The average win without any interaction is turn 6-7 on this revision. This solidly puts Unesh into midrange. I think he can be sped up a bit with more revisions. Turn 4 is a late win for Turbo, but with enough interaction to stop the turbo player we can get to the midrange and win the game. Unesh suffers against a a few stax pieces. The main ones being Torpor Orb (which doesn't see a ton of play these days), and Null Rod and Collector Ouphe. Collectore Ouphe doesn't feel so bad with our interaction suite, and Null Rod is even more of a nuissance. If both are on the field, it is an absolute nightmare for Unesh.
Creatures: Yes a lot of fat was trimmed, and it took some time to really narrow down the best Sphinxs in these slots. There is still room for improvement here. For instance Vexing Sphinx feels awful. The reason I added it a while back was because he can be played early game for a bit of card draw. The card draw from this is not worth the mana spent, the fact that even with Unesh out he is 2 blue to cast also feels very bad. I will definitely replace him with another Sphinx, probably Argent Sphinx or Metallic Mimic. For 2 blue I am much happier to see the mana sink on Argent Sphinx. And for 2 colorless I am happy to see possibly the next cheapest sphinx not already in the deck. Enigma Thief though high CMC, I can reliably cast him for his prowl cost at 2 cmc, and his removal is top notch. Dream Eater though the removal is not the best, it is still good. The kicker here is honestly the surveil 4. You do Unesh FOF first, then surveil 4 and hopefully you can put all 4 in the graveyard. Still dream eater does feel a bit slower than everything else. Scholar of the Lost Trove, upfront I feel very strongly about this card. It's not because this is a pet card, it's because I think its very powerful in this deck. Even at 5cmc which is what I normally cast it for, it feels like insane value. You get the Unesh trigger, and a wincon from the graveyard that the opponents thought they didn't have to deal with anymore. After doing some math on this, the average cost of an Unesh trigger with Unesh on the field is ~2.25 cmc in the current revision (that is the cmc of a card generating the FOF divided by the total number of things generating FOFs excluding Rite). At 5 cmc, casting the Scholar gives you a 4 cmc game winning artifact and a ~2.25 cmc Unesh trigger. Not to mention, it gives you flexibility in choosing piles. For instance, If an opponent erroneously puts Panharmonicon in a pile by itself, you can shamelessly take the other 3 cards in that FOF. Palinchron is also rather expensive to set up, but not as expensive as Rite. I think it is a good back up win condition. If Rite doesn't resolve, or if Isochron w/ dramatic reversal doesn't resolve, we need at least one other way to combo off. With ways to tutor for High Tide this win condition has been online surprisingly often, and is definitely threatening. That said having this AND Rite feels too heavy mana wise. I think I am pretty much sold on Isoscepter because of how inexpensive it is. With recent mana rock additions as well as Mox Diamond and Grim Monolith (mentioned below) the wincon is online for far cheaper than Rite and effectively does the same job, also dramatic reversal can be used as a one time use now which makes it good on it's own.
Lands: After a day of listening to cEDH podcasts, this is what I came up with. Urza's Saga is nuts. After playtesting with these lands I felt a big power spike. Thank you for mentioning Mystic Sanctuary again. I didn't think about it being able to retrieve a wincon which is pretty relevant. I will consider slipping this one back in there. I also think that losing just one more Island wouldn't be very impactful. What do you think about Command Beacon? After playtesting, I think there is such a niche case when this card is good in cEDH. I think I prefer an Island here given the more recent revisions.
Enchantments: Agreed, all of these are great cards. Not much to change here.
Instants: I don't think there are any cuts to be made here. After playtesting I think I need to add more Instants to more reliably shut off early combo wins. Demonic Consultation and Ad Nauseum are rampant. Even fitting in a Dispel or Spell Pierce to the deck would go a long way.
Artifacts: Work needs to be done here. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Lightning Greaves feels bad because board interaction is light and stack interaction is high in cEDH. Caged Sun is usually too expensive to play without cheating it in with Scholar. But scholar wants to hit other game winning cards anyway, so Caged sun needs to go. Grim Monolith and Mox Diamond need to go in. I have been reluctant to add them to the list because I don't have paper copies. You are spot on with these two though. I am not high on Moonsilver Key, but I do like Wayfarer's Bauble. The bauble putting a land into play is important to getting palinchron online, and this also sees great synergy with Vantress Visions similar to the fetch lands. Though bauable is definitely worse than mox diamond and grim monolith, it would be my last cut. Mox Amber indeed doesn't power Unesh out, but we don't need it to. I will say that my playtests have really favored this card. Being able to play more mana artifacts after a FOF for free will keep the FOFs rolling. Mox Amber feels very good. Mox diamond is superior, but I won't take out Mox Amber for it.
REVISION: After synthesizing both our viewpoints, here is a revision that I will go ahead and push. I think you will like this mostly, but let me know your doubts.
- Replace Vexing Sphinx with Spell Pierce.
- Replace Lightning Greaves with Dramatic Reversal.
- Replace Caged Sun with Isochron Scepter.
- Replace Lorien Revealed with Muddle the Mixture. I am okay with an effective land cut here after playtesting.
- Replace Moonsilver Key with Mox Diamond.
- Replace Wayfarer's Bauble with Grim Monolith.
- Replace an Island with Mystic Sanctuary.
EXPLANAITION: This rev cuts the Rite wincon and adds the less expensive Isoscepter wincon. There is still backup wincon in Aetherflux. Isoscepter is backed up by Palinchron, and Aetherflux is supported by Palinchron. Obviously, the goal with infinite mana is to play Thassa's eventually. Dramatic Reversal is good enough on its own now because of the artifacts added recently. I honestly think this is the cheapest that the wincon package can be while still being robust enough to not fizzle out. With these wincons, Unesh doesn't have to be on the field, which makes the deck less reliant on him, mitigating one of the deck's biggest flaws. Cutting Lightning Greaves will likely be inconsequential due to low board state interaction. Muddle and Spell pierce add some more stack interaction while Muddle can find combo pieces. I went with Spell pierce over Dispel because it can hit stax pieces as well as stopping an early combo win. Cutting a sphinx now relies on Ghostly Flicker to be part of the 20%. Mystic Sanctuary and Scholar of the Lost Trove are used to retrieve wincons from the grave if necessary.
I heavily considered subbing Dream Eater for Argent Sphinx. I will need to playtest that change before committing to it.
2 weeks ago
Hypersayia9001 Hi, thanks for your comment.
Isochron Scepter was always destroyed in the moment it lands on the table (my Meta plays a lot of artifact hate) and i never fount the right spell for it, but i like the idea of Narset's Reversal + Extra-Turn. Also since i upgraded the Counter-Section in the last months, the Scepter will have more valuable combos now. Maybe i'll give it a try.
Dramatic Reversal does nothing without the Scepter, so it's a dead card most of the time cause i cant tutor the Scepter. And the need of two mana rocks + Scepter makes it almost impossible to build it up.
2 weeks ago
I'd see about trying to get Isochron Scepter and Dramatic Reversal. Get them out and just two mana rocks and you have an infinite, have three mana rocks and you're net mana each loop. That THAT'S ignoring having the like of Storm-Kiln Artist involved.
Also, Urabrask Flip, Fiery Inscription and Sorcerer Class are a good trio of card if you wanna pivot more into Guttersnipe effects, and if you go for that Veyran, Voice of Duality doubles the effectiveness.
If you want/need more tutoring and are willing to take a bit of a risk, Gamble is a decent pick.
2 weeks ago
GHoag I have been considering Isochron because it does have some great uses in this deck. But I need convincing on Dramatic Reversal. What are your reasons for this card? I know it combos with Isochron, but I can’t imagine I would want to see it any other time.
1 month ago
I think that Shorikai, Genesis Engine is generally seen as one of the better commanders to have when running Humility as part of the 99. Since it is just an artifact until it is crewed it is unaffected by Humility. The tokens that Shorikai produces also help you to pull ahead under Humility's effect.
Blue/White is a good pairing for bounce effects and it gives you Idyllic Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, and Long-Term Plans as ways to tutor Humility up. The Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal combo lets you dig through as much of your library as you want with Shorikai but the Scepter can also just have something like Boomerang imprinted onto it as a way to keep bouncing Humility back to hand as need be. You can also bounce the Scepter itself back to your hand if you draw into Dramatic Reversal later and want to go for the combo instead.
Unwinding Clock is worth considering for the value it can net with your commander and any other artifacts that tap. Meticulous Excavation is a bit limited and mana intensive in its use but is a repeatable way to return Humility to hand. Venser, the Sojourner can exile Humility for the duration of your turn and then bring it back in time for your opponents to enjoy on their turns.