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Dramatic Reversal Discussion
2 hours ago
Is it worth slotting any of those in?
I'm trying to build this by spending as little as possible by using cards in already have. Are Past in Flames and Enter the Infinite 100% necessary? What type of effects would you replace them with (if any)?
13 hours ago
I might recommend a couple cards to help improve this. Isochron Scepter creates infinite mana with Dramatic Reversal . Also, Ad Nauseam is another excellent card advantage card you might want to consider. You're a little light on counter spells but that may very well just be user preference. Desperate Ritual seems like an add in for sure, also some cheaper cantrips like Brainstorm , Ponder & Serum Visions which will get that storm count up, then maybe add in Grapeshot for the finish.
2 days ago
Okay lets break down the justifications you gave, because I still think they merit changing.
Choosing not to run Mishra's Workshop in a deck that combos and staxs with artifacts is just silly. The problem is far more with your deck building choices of running 20 artifacts in an artifact commander oriented deck than the card itself. I shouldn't have to explain the value of 3 extra mana going towards your paradox engine or a stax piece like trinisphere, but apparently I do. Getting to winning pieces faster is better, run it. You also have the luxury of a mulligan on hands when its dead, similar to how Gaea's Cradle is a great card but dead in some hands.
Seat of the Synod combos with Mox Opal Transmute Artifact Inventors' Fair Reshape Unwinding Clock and is pullable for X=0 from Tezzeret the Seeker or Whir of Invention , meaning you can ramp in mono blue. Also recoverable from GY with Academy Ruins . Meanwhile, it nonbos with Back to Basics . Do some cost/benefit analysis and come back to me on that one.
Expedition Map is tutor density, which is your single biggest problem. If you are in a creature heavy meta, it functions as Tabernacle #2, why would you not run it? The value engine with Academy Ruins is icing on the cake. It's also part of a tutor chain using Inventors' Fair which leads to winning lines. Calling it cute without realizing it gives you more consistency with another winning line that also grinds value is just ignorant. Similar to Seat of the Synod , look at your own cards before rejecting inclusions.
Legacy's Allure is 100% a bad card. Assuming you somehow land that on turn 1, it still isn't anywhere close to live until turn 3. Unless the opposing creature is already on the board turn 1, your opponent will remove it before they play whatever creature they need that you would steal anyways, and if the creature is on the board turn 1 you should remove it before turn 3 anyways. Many stax creatures are symmetrical, so stealing one does nothing because those decks are designed to work around the effects. Also Gitrog is a 6/6 so assuming turn 1 Allure it still won't be live until turn 7, at which point Gitrog has already won. You can make the argument for proliferate, but you aren't running any. Aether Spellbomb is faster, combos with your commander, can turn itself into a cantrip if there aren't good creature targets, synergizes with that giant list of cards I talked about with Seat of the Synod, and is less color intensive. If you really need another theft effect, Vedalken Shackles is significantly better and combos all the same ways.
Howling Mine grinds values in longer games. Even if you give your opponent 1 or 2 cards, if you end up drawing 6 or 7 cards from it you are getting a better advantage. It works better in a stax build over a combo build, but then that leads to my next point. If you're really scared run Blinkmoth Well
You should build this as a stax deck. Compare this to an Arcum Dagson deck. The reason that is able to be a fast combo deck is because it has a tutor in the command zone that leads to winning lines. Meanwhile, Urza generates mana and expensive card advantage from the command zone, which benefits you when games go longer. Why would anyone build this deck with these pieces when Arcum does the same thing but better? They are the same CMC, but Dagson is less color intensive so its easier to ramp into with mono blue.
Even if you are trying to run this as fast combo, you aren't making good choices. Why are you running Fact or Fiction and not Frantic Search ? Why is your counterspell density so high when you should be tutoring or drawing to win? 13 counterspells with the meme new Narset spell for 14? Why? The card advantage your deck generates isn't high enough to sustain a package that big. If you're trying to fast combo why are you focusing on playing defensive? You don't need that many counterspells to protect your own combo.
Why are you running Power Artifact but not Basalt Monolith ? Otherwise power artifact is literally a dead draw if Grim Monolith is gone or unavailable. It opens up more options to get infinite and win with Urza
Cut Future Sight . Focus on assembling infinite mana to use Urza as an outlet. Not a single cEDH list runs it for a reason, expensive and slow. If you have infinite mana to plow through your deck with Future Sight you can just do the same with Urza. Wasted slot.
Running Isochron Scepter Dramatic Reversal and Copy Artifact but you aren't running Winds of Rebuke . It has high value outside combo, and high value inside combo. Currently you only have one method of drawing deck outside Urza (Paradox + Voltaic Key + Sensei's Top), which means you are very liable to be hit with Meddling Mage or Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker or Cursed Totem , all of which see play and make your Jace and Labman into dead draws. You should also consider Blue Sun's Zenith for similar reasons, gives an outlet for infinite mana if Urza is turned off or unavailable.
3 days ago
Here are my thoughts, in no particular order
Your land base is just 1 card away from running Tainted Pact for use with Labman lines. You should ditch that 2x island and run it. Also run the new Jace as a back up.
Omniscience + Show and Tell should be cut. Replace with Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter . Its a more compact win, doesn't have the opportunity to blow up in your face, combos with Top and Copy Artifact, and both pieces have higher quality than the pieces they are replacing.
You run a lot of large CMC junk cards that will either end as dead draws or don't win upon resolving. Consecrated Sphinx should be put into play with reanimation, but since you don't run you should cut. Bolas's Citadel is just a bad Ad Nauseum. The handful of wheel cards over 3 CMC should be cut. Why spend that time giving your opponents cards on a soft combo when you could be tutoring and winning with the very easy A + B of Labman + pact? Specifically, Time Spiral Wheel and Deal Reforge the Soul Whispering Madness . Replace those cards with more format staple counterspells and removal. Swan Song Dispel Flusterstorm Red Elemental Blast Abrade Shattering Spree .
Really not wild about Molten Psyche or Winds of Change either. You are losing card advantage on both (-1 to be precise). Notion Thief and Waste Not are both strong when used with a wheel, but it isn't worth devoting that many deck slots to combos that don't explicitly win. You would be better off running tutors instead, which will help you get whichever A or B part of the Notion Wheel combo you don't have in your hand.
You really don't need to run Mission Briefing if you are running Snapcaster AND yawgill AND past in flames.
You should highly consider Chain of Vapor as well as Hurkyl's Recall . Both allow you to gain mana and storm when combined with the mana positive rocks, which feeds into your Aetherflux Reservoir line. They also double as removal and can combo break opponents who are trying to win.
You should include Mana Vault , its much better than Basalt Monolith . Thought Vessel should also be cut, even Prismatic Lens is better. The no maximum hand size will literally never be relevant, because if you are drawing that many cards you should be able to win instead of passing the turn. If you do have to discard down to 7, just keep the 7 that allow you to win and protect the win. You should also run Chrome Mox because of the high card advantage you generate.
28 lands means you're in danger of getting staxed out, very easily. Any artifact hate with early taxes means you're caught and discarding cards for multiple turns. The land base you're running could also use a tune up. You should include the painlands Underground River etc. as they enter untapped and provide color diversity without extra requirements. The two-or-more-opponents lands I'm not a fan of, but playing in a pod means they'll be live. The two-or-fewer-lands lands I'm not a fan of, and firmly believe you should cut. Checklands are fine, but replaceable long term. You should also run more rainbowlands, specifically Forbidden Orchard Gemstone Caverns Tarnished Citadel . If you are running Tolaria West as a 0 drop tutor, don't count it as a land towards your total, if you're running it as an island, it comes out tapped so cut it.
Your cantrips are a bit goofy too. Thought Scour should be replaced with Sleight of Hand , which gives you more flexibility about the card you get as well as gets around draw restrictions such as Alms Collector or Spirit of the Labyrinth . Fact or Fiction is simply too much CMC. I'm personally not a fan of Scroll Rack but that's entirely your call.
Terminate should be Pongify or Rapid Hybridization . Its 1 cmc cheaper and less color intensive, and if you lose to a 3/3 token you were going to lose anyways. Notably, Kess can kill the token by blocking.
3 days ago
Dramatic Reversal is still in without Scepter on purpose.
I definitely do NOT say that in the description anywhere - what part are you referring to specifically? There is no section that has that quote. The introduction mentions that we will sometimes use our draw step to win after mentioning we have the ability to play through Rest in Peace and Rule of Law effects, which seems pretty clear. In the winning the game section, I state: "Things don't always to go plan. We might have to play around something like Rest in Peace or Rule of Law . We can cast Laboratory Maniac or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries , pass, and use Consultation / Pact to deck ourselves before our draw step for the win (or you could wait until a main phase if you are using Jace, Wielder of Mysteries )."
I'm not sure how I could word this any better but I am open to suggestions.
3 days ago
inGtSToRm thanks for answering my questions and your opinion on the topics. Let's discuss this more in detail:
My deck seems to be stucked between Consultation and Storm. I run Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal and Paradox Engine + Mana Rocks and as a pay off/win con Aetherflux Reservoir and Capsize , and one Consultation win con: Jace, Wielder of Mysteries + Tainted Pact . That's why I only run 1 Island and 1 Snow Covered Island (those Full Arts from Modern Horizons are going to be awesome). With the ABUR Duals + Shock Duals I have a total count of 6 Islands, which seems to me too few Islands to run High Tide ?
I do own a Wheel of Fortune but no Timetwister . But whith Time Spiral , Wheel of Fortune and Windfall there are 3 very good Wheel Effects, and there's Whispering Madness . A Turn 2 Narset, Parter of Veils followed by Turn 3 Wheel seems a to be a very good line, and this is why I am mentioning Whispering Madness . I will try Narset and give feedback after some rounds. As this is a sort of soft win con for the deck: how many slots should the Kess Deck or a cEDH in general sacrifice for wincons?
Basalt Monolith is somehow the third version for a colorless Ritual effect. Could you imagine a situation where you want Basalt Monolith turn 2-3 to enable an ad nauseum a turn later? Right now I have Gilded Lotus in my deck and if it stays for one turn, it really helps to go off that next turn.
I appreciate the discussion.
3 days ago
What about Metalworker ? He can definitely put in work especially if the game goes long and you need to attempt to cast Urza, Lord High Artificer multiple times. Also Basalt Monolith gives you another Power Artifact target and if your running Rings of Brighthearth gives a back up infinite mana combo other then Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal .
On a different note: I know this would be too slow for cEDH but I think it would be hilarious to get out Mycosynth Lattice use Power Artifact on Urza, Lord High Artificer and play Training Grounds to reduce Urza, Lord High Artificer 's activated ability to . Now if only Training Grounds was an artifact...
3 days ago
You don't even need to go to Paradox Engine . Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter are granted, two cards, but since all your cheap artifacts are now rocks, not only does he fuel the deck but then provides an infinite mana sink.
Dramatic Reversal occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.06%
U/R (Izzet): 0.49%
U/B/R (Grixis): 0.52%