Nezahal, Primal Tide

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Arena Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Gladiator Legal
Highlander Legal
Historic Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Pioneer Legal
Vintage Legal

Nezahal, Primal Tide

Legendary Creature — Elder Dinosaur

Nezahal, Primal Tide can't be countered.

You have no maximum hand size.

Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, draw a card.

Discard three cards: Exile Nezahal. Return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.

Recommendations View more recommendations

enpc on Question for the CEDH community

1 month ago

Giving this some additional thought (especially since I'm not having to type on my phone):

For Savage Summoning in a cEDH setting, the most powerful part of the card is that you can give a creature spell flash. My reasoning for this is because if you're casting a big creature in cEDH, generally you're going for big impact cards. But (usually) the kinds of decks which want to cast big creatures are either stax effects or control decks who are casting soemthing like Nezahal, Primal Tide. In the case of control decks playing Nez, it's already uncounterable and, well, you're a cotrol deck. You're already packed with counterspells so why would you dilute your general control with something that only protects your stuff and only as you play it. The window of value is so low here.

And for the other deck type that you play big creatures with being stax, your objective is to lock the game down early. Every turn you let slip is a turn that your deck is not doing its thing. So You're not going to want to wait until you can play something big and then flash it in uncounterably. By the time you're playing something big you should already have a board lock (unless you've either done something wrong or were unable to achieve a proper lock). And at that point there shouldn't be much that your opponents can do about your incoming high impact card anyway. So at this point the card basically becomes a "this only really adds value if I'm getting my arse kicked but want to stick that one big creature" which is not what you want to be wasting card slots on.

If you're after flash effects, at least Scout's Warning at worst cantrips, but Savage Summoning just isn't worth it unless you're talking very niche scenarios, which makes it not worth it.

As for Seedtime, as I mentioned the card is basically only playable if your opponent is casting blue spells (i.e. countermagic). This means that you're either A) responding to countermagic with your own countermagic, which in this case you may as well just play conditionless extra turn spells (as you're running blue), or B) your main plan has just been stopped. This means that more often than not, you don't have much else to do and so it will untap your lands, draw you a card and let you play a land (kind of like a vintage turn 1/2 Time Walk). That's not terrible, but the question is: could the card be doing more to aid your main strategy? Imagine if you had a wheel in hand instead, to refill your hand. Would this be more valuable than an extra turn?

The strength of card comes from being able to respond to something like a Cyclonic Rift (especially if you're a very permanent heavy deck) or if you can generate a lot of value in a given non-win turn (@davidsays1 I did notice that you have a Selvala, Explorer Returned deck which runs it - this is probably one of the better use cases for the card due to the value that Selvala can generate you). And sure, responding to an someone Brainstorming at your EOT is funny, but it's still pretty corner case.

But I would say that there are a myriad of blue extra turn spells, however most blue decks don't both running them unless it's part of the deck's strategy to begin will. So that should help paint a bit of a picture about why Seedtime doesn't really see play.

multimedia on Braids & her Interdimensional Friends

4 months ago

Hey, thanks for all the upvotes at my decks.

Nice start for mono blue and interesting Commander who I don't see played much. You have 101 cards, Desolation Twin could be cut to make 100. It's a much worse Eldrazi then the others.

Your deck could be less price, it's not overpriced garbage, but you could cut the price in half and it would be just as good. Three of the most expensive price cards here are Blightsteel, Ulamog and Betrays, but without more protection, counterspells and some more haste these creatures can be subpar to cheat with Braids because they don't give you value unless they can attack. Each of these creatures is a must kill by opponents. If you don't get to attack the first turn you give your opponents an entire cycle of turns to find an answer which in multiplayer Commander is a lot time. Treasure Mage is another creature who can tutor for Blightsteel.


Consider some more lower mana cost hard counterspells such as Arcane Denial and some creatures who can protect such as Spellskite? Protecting Braids is not as important as protecting what you cheat onto the battlefield because opponents are getting value from Braids too. More one mana instant protection is helpful such as Stubborn Denial and Slip Out the Back which is phasing and it's powerful with Braids.

Swiftfoot Boots is a lesser Greaves, but still fine and wanted in blue that doesn't have haste options. Akroma's Memorial is more price, but it's a big artifact to cheat with Braids that helps to setup other big creatures since it gives haste as well as other attacking abilities. Might also want to play Tribute Mage because can tutor for Greaves.

If you play Blightsteel, Ulamog and Betrays also consider playing some big creatures who give you value without attacking such as Hullbreaker Horror and Tidespout Tyrant? Each are much less price and can pack a punch without attacking. With Braids you'll have mana open to cast spells after your upkeep, use this mana for protection while also getting value from each spell you cast.

Bounce the permanents that your opponents cheat with Braids because the first turns cycle opponents get to trigger Braids before you. Bounce your own clones to clone something else or them. Both of these creatures when you control two them can infinite combo with Sol Ring. Bounce your own creatures who draw to cast or cheat them to draw again. Bouncing Braids can be a smart strategy because sometimes you don't want to give opponents the upkeep trigger and maybe you don't need the trigger.


Phasing, when you can control when a creature phases out is a busted effect with Braids. Vanishing can repeatedly protect Braids if you need that or deny your opponents her trigger because of how phasing works, only phasing in at your untap step. With Vanishing you can phase out Braids at any time or after your upkeep trigger which skips all your opponents upkeeps. It also protects her from opponent's sorcery board wipes which are plentiful in multiplayer Commander. You don't have to phase out Braids, but having the option can be helpful and you can politic with it by letting one opponent have the upkeep trigger and skipping the rest.

A phased out creature also phases out all auras/equipment that's attached to it, Vanishing is protected from removal when Braids is phased out. Vodalian Illusionist can also repeatedly phase out Braids. Combine phase out with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir to protect during your turn especially any hasty creatures you cheat with Braids. If you can get Teferi down before you cast Braids then you can flash Braids in before your upkeep to trigger her before your opponents.


Consider more draw especially from creatures such as Nezahal, Primal Tide or artifacts such as The Magic Mirror that Braids can cheat? Nezahal is Mystic Remora which is excellent in multiplayer Commander with a big body who can protect itself. With Mirror you can stack the upkeep triggers to draw before Braids trigger. Mulldrifter is a budget creature for draw who can also be easily cast and is a nice target to clone/create token or bounce.

Braids is a Wizard you could take advantage of some Wizard only effects such as Azami, Lady of Scrolls can repeatedly draw two cards by tapping her and Braids. Galecaster Colossus can repeatedly bounce two nonland permanents opponents cheated with Braids. Riptide Laboratory can repeatedly bounce Braids. Combine this effect with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir to deny your opponents Braids triggers by flash cast her at last opponent's end step and then after your upkeep bounce her with Riptide. Teferi is also a Wizard.

Vedalken AEthermage can Wizardcycle to get any Wizard including Orvar, the All-Form who does count as a Wizard while in your library/hand/graveyard. Vodalian Illusionist is also a Wizard. Wizard's Retort is Counterspell with Braids.


I like the secondary strategy of cloning your own or opponents permanents and/or gaining control of your opponents permanents that they cheat with Braids. You could expand on this strategy with Agent of Treachery, who is more price, but he can gain control of any permanent. He's also not legendary making him an excellent clone/create token target since the more of him you have the easier to control three permanents you don't own to then repeatedly draw. He's a good target to bounce because you don't lose the permanent you gained control of. Clever Impersonator can clone any nonland permanent.

Instants with buyback that target such as Mind Games and Capsize are good with Orvar, the All-Form to repeatedly trigger it. Capsize can be a win condition when you create infinite blue mana which mono blue is quite good at doing. If you want go this route you wouldn't have to add very many cards. In fact Orvar + Peregrine Drake + any buyback instant that targets is a combo for infinite blue mana from Islands as well as infinite Drake tokens as a potential win condition.


Consider more ramp? You're playing a lot of high CMC spells that you're counting on Braids to cheat them, but if you don't control Braids then more ramp could help to cast these spells. More ramp can also help to be able to cast Braids and have mana up for instant interaction the turn you play her.

High Tide is a favorite of mono blue since it's only one mana and playing so many Islands. Caged Sun with or without Braids can help to repeatedly cast almost any spell. Combine Tide/Sun with a draw spell such as Pull from Tomorrow or Blue Sun's Zenith to draw a lot of cards at instant speed, giving you a lot of options of permanents to cheat with Braids.

Good luck with your deck.

kimosabe on Draw = ouch

5 months ago

Hello Deathkiller374, I love esper and I really love Queza. If you love drawing consider some of these cards:

Mystic Confluence, Nezahal, Primal Tide, Archmage Emeritus, and Sphinx's Revelation.

So many good options esper colors. But these are good budget options. Good luck out there. Feel free to critique my esper decks for more inspiration. :)

multimedia on Umezawa of the Swamp

8 months ago

Hey, if you're looking for other potential cuts then look at the amount of removal you're playing. I count 19 removal sources including counterspells. That's a lot of removal and some of it could be cut for more draw and ramp.

Having a more balanced ratio of draw sources to ramp sources to removal can help gameplay. 10+-10-10 (draw-ramp-removal) is a good start. Overall more draw than the rest, with ramp sources potentially being less since on a budget there's not a lot of good ramp options in Dimir. More draw can replace some ramp since it can help to find lands. I don't consider Ecologist's Terrarium and Armillary Sphere ramp since these effects put basic land(s) into your hand not onto the battlefield. This effect is more draw than ramp and both of these could be cut for ramp, Terrarium is better card than Sphere.

The current ratio here of these three areas is 11-4-19 (draw-ramp-removal). Other than Nezahal, Primal Tide and bouncing Baleful Strix with ninjustu most of the rest of the draw is coming from one-time effects. One-time effects are fine, but repeatable effects are better. Number of ramp sources here is low. Prosperous Thief is in NEO set and it's good ramp for Ninjas since it also counts Rogues and many Rogues here are unblockable. It's two mana ninjutsu can be helpful for a potential turn two play after getting creature turn one.

Twisted Embrace, Essence Capture and Clawing Torment are some removal here that are worse than the rest. If you're getting Kaito Shizuki that's great, Twisted Embrace could be cut for him. Negate could replace another removal spell if you want to play it, it's better than Essence Capture, but If not I don't think you need it.

multimedia on Umezawa of the Swamp

8 months ago

Hey, you're welcome. Nice changes, you've added a lot of cards not from the NEO set. That's the right approach if you have access to other cards since while the NEO set has many good cards it's a drop in the ocean compared to all the budget cards you could be playing in the history of Magic. You've upgraded to a robust/fun package of big creatures to ninjutsu with Satoru. Much better ratio of evasion creatures to Ninjas to big creatures :)

  • Sol Ring --> Slinn Voda, the Rising Deep

Sol is a budget mana rock that's the most played card in Commander and for good reason it's excellent ramp for only one mana. Unless it's banned in your playgroup all Commander decks you build could use Sol.

Slinn Voda, the Rising Deep doesn't work with ninjutsu since you can't pay kicker when you ninjutsu because you're not casting Slinn. The effect of ninjutsu is not casting the creature from your hand it's simply putting it onto the battlefield. This is the reason that a creature that's ninjutsu can't be countered by a Counterspell. The reason you're playing Slinn is to get it's kicker effect, but it will take 10 mana to do so which isn't worth it.


An area to think about improving are repeatable draw sources. When you control Satoru and ninjutsu it's pseudo draw, but you're counting a little too much on ninjutsu to draw. Nezahal, Primal Tide is an excellent upgrade you've made for a big creature especially in multiplayer Commander.

The first place to look for more repeatable draw is from Ninjas. Infiltrator is one of the best Ninjas because each Ninja who does combat damage to a player you draw a card. Hours is one of the original Ninjas and it's still just as good today. Only two mana ninjutsu for these Ninjas is another reason they're good.

Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar has two effects that are good with Ninjas. First effect is repeatable draw, but only one card no matter the number of creatures who do combat damage to a player. Second effect is excellent with ninjutsu because it can return creatures you control to your hand and it can give you more ninjutsu to trigger Satoru. If any creature you control is blocked in combat then you can choose to return it to your hand to then ninjutsu it again right away if you want to. Most Ninjas don't have evasion therefore after ninjutsu they may not be able to safely attack for fear of being blocked. This second effect takes away that fear because if the Ninja is blocked then return it to your hand which saves that Ninja in combat letting it ninjutsu again.

Epicurus on Oopps, more baddies, Satoru Umezawa EDH

9 months ago

You have a lot of draw power in here, so you should think about including some stuff that gives you no maximum hand size:

Just some thoughts.

Cheers!

smilodex on Best Commanders in EDH [Tier List] Part 1

10 months ago

@Nonary27: Just don't. Simic Hulk is just bad... Why you want to play Protean Hulk when you can play Hullbreaker Horror, Consecrated Sphinx, Nezahal, Primal Tide, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, Sphinx of the Final Word & Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait etc? But when you really think you want to fill your deck with weird cards to somehow make Hulk work in simic: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/arqrt5/simic_hulk_pile/

And yes, when you want to protect your combo you should run cheap/free counterspells. The cheaper the better. But in simic you shouldn't have mana problems, so you can also protect your stuff with 2 mana spells like Mana Drain/Keep Safe/Counterspell etc. (depending on your deck/format)

freezerboy on SATORU NINJA 'DRAZIES FROM THE BOTTOM NOW WE HERE

10 months ago

Here are some other recommendations if you like:

Unblockables

Nether Traitor, Thalakos Seer, Blighted Agent

Big Boys that aren't Eldrazi

Deep-Sea Kraken, Ancient Stone Idol, Chancellor of the Spires, Devouring Strossus, Denizen of the Deep, Hullbreaker Horror, Icebreaker Kraken, Inkwell Leviathan, Kederekt Leviathan, Leviathan, Nezahal, Primal Tide, Tidespout Tyrant

Since ninjitsu bypasses attack triggers, then cards like Leviathan can actually be semi-viable. Good luck with the new concept, I know that I'm going to be making a ninja demon/kraken deck that should be absurd.

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