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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Creature — Dryad
Whenever another nontoken creature enters the battlefield, you may pay . If you do, that creature's controller creates a token that's a copy of that creature.
blpace on Om Nom Trample
2 months ago
Thoughts on Bramble Sovereign?
Made_Compleat on People's Thoughts on Mommy Norn?
4 months ago
Oh no! A functional monowhite commander! EVERYBODY PANIC!
Alright. I get that Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines is a big deal. A decent statline, vigilance, Yarok, the Desecrated as one ability and a much, much, much better version of Hushbringer as the other. She's certainly a powerhouse. But should she see the hammer? I think not.
I'll not say that Machine Mom isn't disruptive. She can shut down a good amount of popular cards in the format, such as Bramble Sovereign, Terror of the Peaks, and the notorious combo piece Palinchron. She can and will double up monowhite Oblivion Ring style effects. Honestly, I think that doubling Seal Away type cards is going to be the stax-ier part of Mama Machine. She doesn't shut down many combo decks (unless they use the aforementioned Palinchron), and really doesn't answer most cEDH decks. She hates out on ETBs, sure, but Yasharn, Implacable Earth hates out on sacrifice, arguably better. Gaddock Teeg is just absurdly good stax, and both Gaddok and Yasharn grant access to Green.
If you want to make Elesh Norn stax, then, ok, that's probably a deck that will give everyone a headache. But... are we going to cry "BAN HER!" for one way of building around Machine Mommy? If you want to run stax, go and buy a Hokori, Dust Drinker or Oloro, Ageless Ascetic. They're much better depriving everyone of fun than New Norn. Elesh Norn can do so much more than just stop everyone from having fun.
Honestly, a lot of the complaints that I see here are against the Stax archetype in general, not Norn. And I get that Norn seems like a good Stax commander, but... If hate stax, than complain about Hokori, or Oloro, or yes, even Archelos, Lagoon Mystic. Stax has its place: cEDH and masochistic playgroups.
Something that no one here is referencing is the Game Knights video in which Josh Lee Kwai played with a (proxied) Elesh Norn, and his deck was oppressive, but nothing too bad. Notably, Norn's restrictive ability saw a lot less use than her double ability, which was used to double small value abilities, as well as oblivion ring effects. The deck won the game, but it was very close and I wouldn't say it made Norn look banable. Not by a long shot.
So, in conclusion, Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines is a powerhouse, who certainly can be a problem, but probably isn't the worst card in EDH. Really, a lot of the complaints about her are complaints about Stax in general.
Thanks for reading my rant.
Also, did anyone else notice the fact that Navani (from Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive) and Elesh Norn have the same epithet? That always makes me crack up.
plakjekaas on People's Thoughts on Mommy Norn?
5 months ago
No, she doesn't shut down shocklands. Paying life for your shockland is not a trigger. It does not use the stack, you cannot react to it, just like you can't react to the creature type being named with a Cavern of Souls. Because the oracle text says "As ... enters the battlefield" not "When ... enters the battlefield".
It looks like the people defending her never played with Tocatli Honor Guard, Hushbringer, Torpor Orb or Hushwing Gryff and have no idea what the oracle text actually means. And Norn is worse, since it's every permanent entering the battlefield, not just creatures. Like Strict Proctor.
TypicalTimmy I looked at your Miirym deck, here's the "occasional benefits" Elesh Norn is actually going to shut down or interfere with:
That's a lot of synergy, ramp, carddraw and wincons shut down by a commander. About 1/3rd of all your nonland cards. And that deck is going to have a hard time removing her too, by the looks of it.
Now there are a few cards that get better playing against Norn: bouncelands like Boros Garrison don't return lands to hand anymore, Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger doesn't need to sacrifice itself, but effects like those are not enough to catch up with the Norn player.
What's this "no game-winning effects in white" everyone is talking about? Cathars' Crusade will end the game in a hurry, especially if you pair it up with something like Blessed Sanctuary. Double up on every O-ring effect. Stonehorn Dignitary will keep you alive, especially if you play Teleportation Circle and Conjurer's Closet, as one definitely will in this deck. Felidar Retreat and Emeria Shepherd with all your Land Tax effects will snowball into an enormous boardstate easily. Solitude will rule the table. Sun Titan is still one of the most played white creatures for a reason. For carddraw that white wasn't supposed to have, Spirited Companion, Carrier Pigeons, Combat Thresher, Farsight Adept, Inspiring Overseer, Mentor of the Meek, Priest of Ancient Lore, Resistance Squad, Roving Harper, Rumor Gatherer, Search Party Captain, Skyscanner, Thraben Inspector, Wall of Omens all double up with Norn. Because everyone memed that white is a bad colour, nobody seems to know what the color has to offer. It could already hold its own without such a saltmine of a card for the command zone, and if you need this middle finger to half the popular deck archetypes to even consider building it, you do you, but prepare to be avoided.
Housegheist on So Many Spiders
6 months ago
Some spider suggestions:
Llanowar Greenwidow, Oran-Rief Recluse, Glowstone Recluse, Sentinel Spider, Sweet-Gum Recluse, Hatchery Spider, Doom Weaver, Obelisk Spider, Rotwidow Pack
Spider-Support: Curse of Clinging Webs, Eaten by Spiders, Hidden Spider, Spider Umbra, Webspinner Cuff
Bramble Sovereign could produce Spider Copy-tokens on etb. If you plan playing 3 colours… Thantis, the Warweaver?
And… what about Lolth, Spider Queen?
Edit: with 3.3 cmc, you have a pretty low landcount. I would cut some non-creature-spells
Housegheist on Imotekhs eternal Artifacts
6 months ago
First off: thank you for your upvote and in depth analysis. It really helped to trim some cards
I agree, that the cmc has to be a lil bit lower. My thought was, if I reanimate them I do not have to pay the cost. But sure, 3.5 is a bit high.
I cuttet Phyrexian Triniform as I think, once in a million I can trigger it’s encore. Triplicate Titan on the other hand fits the whole strategy, provides enormous evasion and evasive artifact creatures if it dies. I will give it a try, Hexmark Destroyer connects hard or creates room for other creatures… and is a necron… it’s sooo hard… but doesn’t fit that well.
But I admit that Darksteel Juggernaut is just a resilient but not always big threat… like a “win more” option. Hasn’t made the cut, as well as Diamond Mare, Phyrexian Fleshgorger and Technomancer. The last one was hard, but I do not think that I can abuse it’s ETB often enough. You where also right with Szarekh and Scarecrone, they are new to the list. I like Ugin and thought 1/3 of my spells would be enough, maybe he doesn’t make it… otherwise he provides support in pseudo-card-draw, removal and cost reduction,… have to think about it. Unfortunately Tortured Existence is not in my collection, therefore I didn’t choose it. I made also room for War Room and Phyrexia's Core (and Darksteel Citadel as well… what was I thinking :D
Mind’s Eye should provide a lot of (needed) continuous card-draw. Sculpting Steel was already in the list… but I have to ask… you would cut Mirrorworks? It is an Bramble Sovereign for ANY artifact… creatures as usual artifacts as well… it’s a bomb! :O
lcarl3035 on ETB EDH IDK
7 months ago
UncleLucky Thanks for the sugestions! Definitely putting in Dual Nature, Bramble Sovereign, Replication Technique, and Precursor Golem in.
Not sure about Thousand-Faced Shadow, though, because usually in other decks it has just died as a chump blocker early game as I have never achieved a good enough board state for it to be useful.
Scute Swarm was overlooked because I thought Yarok, the Desecrated said "creature or artifact," rather than permanent. That makes Avenger of Zendikar even easier to win with and opens up landfall possibilities.
Rite of Replication I don't like because it says "creature," rather than permanent, which means I can't copy lands for ramp or Panharmonicon.
Necroduality would only be good with Maskwood Nexus, which is hard to set up.
UncleLucky on ETB EDH IDK
7 months ago
Absolutely love the Wizard tribal subtheme here. Kudos. You could lean into clone tokens to really get some huge ETB triggers:
- Dual Nature would make the game wild, giving two copies of every creature played, including your opponents. With your general, Naban, or Panharmonicon, each ETB trigger would effectively happen SIX times.
- Minion Reflector and Bramble Sovereign are a little safer than Dual Nature, but require a little extra mana for each trigger. But getting more than one of these effects on the field will quickly overwhelm your opponents.
- Necroduality is another copier once Maskwood Nexus is up. Unsure if it'd be worth it otherwise though.
- Elvish Hydromancer and Thousand-Faced Shadow give ETB cloning tokens for some fun chain reactions.
- Replication Technique can copy your ETB creatures but also make copies of Panharmonicon or other enablers.
- Rite of Replication is just nuts if you kick it on a Priest of Gix or anything else really.
- Precursor Golem can generate a ton of bodies and be a great target for your own buffs or shenanigans if you add stuff above.
- Scute Swarm will quickly get out of control once you start making copies of itself. Each land effectively triples your total number of Scute Swarm after 6 lands.
8 months ago
@Wikked I like your deck, especially Bramble Sovereign which I think I will add to my deck too. I can probably cut some of the ramp cards since Henzie will discount the big creatures.
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