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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
If Gemstone Caverns is in your opening hand and you're not playing first, you may begin the game with Gemstone Caverns on the battlefield with a luck counter on it. If you do, exile a card from your hand.
: Gain . If Gemstone Caverns has a luck counter on it, instead gain one mana of any colour.
3 weeks ago
My advice is to run all the fetches since you have most of the original duels. Other than that all of the lands that produce any color mana is the way to go (ie. City of Brass, Forbidden Orchard, Mana Confluence, Command Tower, Gemstone Caverns). I'd avoid anything that enters tapped but that is just my opinion. With the fetches duels and gold lands that's 25 lands leaving room for utility lands or lands that tap for multiple mana like Gaea's Cradle, Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors.
2 months ago
Hey @Spirits, sorry for taking so long to get back to you! You asked such detailed questions, so I wanted to make sure I had time to write out detailed answers :D
Like you said, just a budget consideration. Yuriko is my pet deck so I don’t use any proxies, but I highly encourage it for others! While the bounce effect of Karn's Temporal Sundering is nice, I’m thinking of replacing it with Time Warp or just cutting it altogether for Treasure Cruise.
Since I don’t have any combos, I’m all in on the Yuriko damage plan. So having an enabler at all times is much more crucial for me, which is why I play 15 of them. Comparing my list to others, it seems 15 is on the higher end, so you could probably get away with cutting a couple. You’re correct about Tormented Soul, it can’t be pitched to Force of Will, as well as the mana base being more blue-heavy. As for the flying enablers, they’re included for redundancy (since there aren’t 15 unblockable 1-drops). It’s pretty rare for every opponent to have a flying/reach blocker, and we don’t really care who we attack, so flying does a pretty good impression of unblockable. Plus, many of them have relevant abilities, especially Faerie Seer’s scry 2 and Wingcrafter which can give Yuriko flying. If you’re mainly trying to win with combo, I wouldn’t play any of the 2 mana enablers except Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive. But don’t underestimate Augury Owl in the “winning with big spells” shell!
I haven’t tried him out yet, so I’m also unsure whether he makes the cut. Normally I wouldn’t consider playing a planeswalker, since we’re not very good at blocking to keep them around for longer than one turn. But with Kaito, we’re guaranteed 2 activations since he phases out eot, so I think he’s worth testing out for sure.
I think the wincons you described are all totally viable. Most of the cEDH Yuriko lists win with Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation or Tainted Pact since it’s only 2 cards and 3-4 mana (and tough to interact with outside of counterspells). Doomsday is significantly weaker than fish-consul, but its also a reasonable win-con. It’s convenient that cards that would go in the doomsday pile such as Gitaxian Probe and Street Wraith are already good cards for the deck anyway. When I first built this deck, I didn’t include doomsday for power level considerations. Now, I doubt doomsday would be too powerful for my playgroup to handle, but I decided to leave it out since I prefer to win with Yuriko’s ability.
Scheming symmetry is pretty much my budget replacement for Imperial Seal until we get a reprint. It’s true that you can do some cute plays with Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion or Fallen Shinobi. But most of the time, I save it until someone is below 16 life, choose them to tutor with me, put Draco on top of my library, and eliminate them before they can use the card they grabbed.
I’m a big fan of Mutavault since it allows me to rebuild a turn earlier after a boardwipe, or just to have an extra ninja that usually goes unnoticed by your opponents. Unfortunately, colourless lands are really, really awkward in this deck, so I wouldn’t play more than 1 or 2 at the most.
Drowned Catacomb, etc.
Since I’m currently playing 10 basics, I usually don’t have any problems with Drowned Catacomb and Sunken Hollow entering tapped. As for Mystic Sanctuary, it definitely sucks when you draw it and have to play it as a tapped island. But, imo it makes up for it in the late game when you can grab it with a fetch land and put an expensive spell on top of your library in response to a Yuriko trigger. If you’re including Tainted Pact, or just playing less basics in general, I would definitely cut those lands for City of Brass or River of Tears, like you mentioned.
I touched on this a bit in the Mutavault discussion, but you definitely want to stay away from colourless lands as much as possible. Although Ancient Tomb and Gemstone Caverns are really powerful lands in a vacuum, the early mana they provide isn’t worth it imo. I definitely agree with you that Reliquary Tower is a trap. I wouldn’t play it in very many decks in general, especially not in Yuriko. As for Glacial Chasm and Maze of Ith, they aren’t played enough in my playgroup for me to need an answer for them. But if they did become more popular, my plan would likely be to cut Mutavault and include Strip Mine/Wasteland instead.
I hope everything I explained made sense and was helpful to ya! Don’t hesitate to ask me more questions!
3 months ago
Couple early questions if you don't mind. Let me know if I'm a bother :) My Yuri Deck
You have 15 enablers, I read the notes on them, couple questions. What's the critical mass on this, like would 10 be deterimental. When I did a rough pull in had the following questions:
Kaito Shizuki thoughts? I'm worried that the CMC3 for the -2 is the wrong tempo/timing, but, he does come in, make a unblockable, then phase out to also get the draw next turn. If you don't need the unblockable, it's draw 2 for CMC3, tough to see hitting his ultimate at 7. 3CMC planeswalker are usually good, some I'm tempted to think this one will be too? But I have no play experience on this deck.
I just can't get my head around the flying evasion guys though, Faerie Seer, Spectral Sailor, Wingcrafter, Augury Owl, Sage Owl. They feel "sub-optimal" to me and difficult to include, but as I said what's the critical mass here? I was considering Baleful Strix in the 2CMC drop, just because he replaces himself in hand (which may just be discarded anyway, but looting never that bad anyway), with deathtouch less likely to be blocked by flying/reach, and he can be an effective (deathtouch) defender.
I've roughed in "12" for the timebeing.
Honestly my first thought was this is a turbo-draw to tutor, fish-pact/fish-consul strategy. I was looking at Tatsunari, Toad Rider instead, but I think I like "big splashy spells" more than the aristocrats method. So that got me thinking, what the heck do I win with, is this viable or am I off-base here:
Tertiary Maverick 'Turn and Burn': Temporal Trespass, Temporal Mastery, Temporal Manipulation, Capture of Jingzhou with perhaps something like Sea Gate Restoration Flip or Dig Through Time as possible damage enablers in addition to the 'turn'.
I skipped Secondary intentionally, is there no room here for a Doomsday? I can think of multiple stacks with varied CMC, E.G. if devotion to blue 3 + Doomsday + Thassa's Oracle (BBBUU) is a win, if you don't have Thassa's Oracle, somethig like Doomsday + Gitaxian Probe/Street Wraith into a Night's Whisper or something could be around CMC7, Gush kinda useless here for a CMC3 (BBB) stack.
Thoughts on that? I see you intentionally don't run the fish, but this seems viable for this deck?
For Scheming Symmetry doesn't the player just pull a counterspell to stop your win, does it really "win on the spot", if you have to pass it feels useless, but with Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion or Opposition Agent it does work. Reliability? I "should"? run it?
Has Mutavault been enough value for a possible swing vs. the downside of the colorless mana? It dodges board wipe and is a ninja, so kinda-of makes sense to me, but I'm on the fence?
I do have TOO MANY potential colorless mana Ancient Tomb, Gemstone Caverns, Reliquary Tower, Strip Mine. I feel like Reliquary Tower is a trap and I should remove, where I feel like, what's my strategy vs. a Glacial Chasm or Maze of Ith.
It's still a work in progress, I think I need more Ninjas then I have, still evaluating them one by one, and trying to figure out what each tutor gets me, but first I need to know what my win-con plans are to know what i'm looking for!
Thanks for any feedback you can provide.
3 months ago
Well, there’s lots of different lands that have lots of different uses in modern. Beyond certain utility lands that are limited to specific colors, there’s various cycles of lands with an equivalent version in most if not all color combinations. There’s some incomplete cycles like the triomes (name may change) which is going to be finished soon, and the draw painlands (not sure what they are called) which started with Horizon Canopy.
Certain cycles are suited to certain uses or needs better than others.
For example, the Horizon Canopy cycle is more suited to aggro decks that end up with more mana than they need as the game goes on.
The filter lands are one of the cycles where you want to limit the number of them in the deck, since they aren’t capable of producing colored mana on their own (I generally only run one for this reason). However, they are some of the best mana-fixing that modern has to offer for greedy manabases. You can take a white mana and make it into 2 blue mana with a Mystic Gate as an example. Reflecting Pool also works similarly to these lands, and is basically a match made in heaven for them, since it only cares about their capability to produce a colored mana source. So you can use a Reflecting Pool to feed a filter land even if those are your only two lands.
For decks that are more minimal colors, basics are better, since they get around a lot of hate. In fact I don’t suggest ever making a deck without at least 2 basics and some ways to find them.
Black and green also have access to urborg and yavimaya which let you tap things for colored mana you couldn’t normally. This helps with painlands and fetches, since you can now tap them without paying life.
There’s plenty of other lands with specific uses, and there isn’t really a right or wrong answer when making a manabase as long as you can consistently have access to the colors you need, and your manabase doesn’t end up killing you with painlands, shocks, fetches, etc. You also want to try to limit the number of lands you’ll have coming into play tapped for obvious reasons.
Also, when using fetches, I generally find that 7 ish fetches is ideal in a generic manabase. If you pick one main color you can basically make it so you can have access to all your color fixing shocks etc no matter what fetch you draw. You can also have two support colors to minimize the number of shocks you actually need to run. Combine with the aforementioned urborg or yavimaya tricks, and you can really minimize the number of shocks needed.
If your manabase isn’t heavily leaning towards a certain color and is basically a main color with a splash of a second you can run a lot more basics and a minimal amount of fetches with basically the same consistency and deck thinning, with less life loss.
There’s also things like Gemstone Caverns or Grove of the Burnwillows which have niche uses. You can’t really have a one answer cure all for what manabase is ideal for what deck, since most decks have different needs.
Also, if running legendary lands, I don’t generally suggest running more than 2 copies of each, unless you can do something with them in multiples like the channel lands.
4 months ago
I build this deck in 2014. I haven't seen another version as old as mine. Heck, you even used the same name. :)
Echoing Calm is really good in this deck, even though I run it sideboard. Mercy Killing is probably the best removal card for this deck. Bile Blight is the second best removal card for this deck. Virulent Plague is too slow at . I get the redundancy, but its too expensive, and too late unless you are running Gemstone Caverns and always play on the draw. Slaughter Specialist is better than Hunted Horror. It doesn't give them two 3/3s with Pro Black, and grows a far bigger than Hunted Horror.
4 months ago
Hey, m4rs, I'm back with some spicy tech for your deck, this time regarding the big tokens themselves:
My suggestion, whenever possible, is to run creatures over other spell types for the same effect: they synergize better with your deck, despite being more vulnerable to boardwipes. (It makes you more explosive, which is better the higher you go on power level).
Have you considered Quartzwood Crasher? It is already a trampling beater that gives you even bigger trampling beaters.
Overwhelming Stampede is great when you have a 5+ power creature on the board. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to the tokens created thereafter.
Delina, Wild Mage can copy your legendary creatures as non-legendary, just for Ghired to copy them even further. (Throw in Parallel Lives in the mix and we're salivating already.) Maybe you're lucky enough and roll 15+ three times in a row?
Harmonic Prodigy and Wulfgar of Icewind Dale double your Ghired triggers. The former can be cloned for extra spice and the latter also works with Etali, Primal Storm, Aurelia, the Warleader and Combat Celebrant. (Too bad Isshin, Two Heavens as One is black :-/)
If you're relying a lot on "when-something-enters-the-battlefield" effects, Panharmonicon might be a good friend to you.
In that matter, Hofri Ghostforge gives all your creatures a second life should your opponents dare removing them. (I played against him, and it is ANNOYING to have to kill things twice to get rid of them.) The bright side is that the exiled cards come back to the graveyard after they LEAVE the battlefield for any reason, so you can recur them.
Iroas, God of Victory gives evasion to your creatures while protecting them from blockers.
Marisi, Breaker of the Coil should maybe return to the deck if you're afraid of being attacked when going all-in, since you removed Intangible Virtue. It also has the neat bonus of your opponents having to answer before you declare who you're attacking. (I know it doesn't scream "token" off its textbox, but it is a repeatable Disrupt Decorum effect which clears the board for your next attack).
I believe Selesnya Eulogist might be swapped out for Scavenging Ooze or the recently spoiled Lion Sash. Despite not populating, they exile any card and are cheaper mana-wise. The Sash can also be equipped to a creature to buff a creature and avoid creature wipes.
Since you run the Moxen, Gemstone Caverns fills the same role of exchanging cards for tempo, while being a land. (You can always choose to not go first if you win the dice roll.)
Now, as always, I want to suggest some removals:
I love Mimic Vat in battlecruiser games, but it doesn't pull the same weight on quick games. (It hurts to write it, but my beloved Soul Foundry might also only belong to Christmasland, since, if you don't have the mana to cast AND copy the creature right away, your opponents might see the danger incoming and remove the artifact before you get any value off it.)
Tendershoot Dryad might not belong here, since Ghired cares about quality, not exactly quantity of the tokens.
Esika's Chariot. I understand it already comes with its tokens for crewing, but getting a token copy of TOKEN creatures AFTER combat is too narrow for my taste (and you don't have noncreature tokens). Again, Rionya and Delina are better suited for this job.
Sword of Hearth and Home is good protection stapled to decent blink and ramp effects, but the ramp comes too late for Ghired to care, the blink is unreliable and the protection can be better executed by Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Saryth, the Viper's Fang (trample + deathtouch is nasty), Privileged Position or Asceticism.
What are your experiences with Warstorm Surge? I usually leave it out of my deck if I have access to Terror of the Peaks, since 6 mana is a lot in my games and the Terror is tutorable by cards you already run.
5 months ago
Hey! Kinda late, but I would like to suggest some stuff:
(Disclaimer: I have a budget way lower than yours, but I've been tinkering with Ghired for almost two years - he's my favorite commander. I'll break the suggested upgrades down into categories for better organization.)
- You need them for Ghired and his tokens to attack right away, as well as to use your creatures with tap abilities on demand. Please consider Hammer of Purphoros in addition to Lightning Greaves and Fires of Yavimaya. The Hammer can even create tokens if needed.
Ramp: Run at least 15 ramp cards to make your deck flow smoother and faster.
As an aggressive deck, speed is fundamental. Fellwar Stone, Nature's Lore, Three Visits, Skyshroud Elf, Bloom Tender, Faeburrow Elder, Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic, Wood Elves, Skyshroud Claim and Mirari's Wake can ramp and heavily fix your mana, taking the place of Gyre Sage, Solemn Simulacrum, Rampant Growth, Sakura-Tribe Elder and Xenagos, the Reveler - the latter is a win-more ramp, and his 2/2 token is not large enough to synergize with the power-based card draw, while the other four fix for a single color of mana (Ghired decks can sometimes be color-hungry), and this deck can't abuse the sad robot for value.
In the land department, Krosan Verge and Blighted Woodland pull their weight, and synergize greatly with Avenger of Zendikar and Rampaging Baloths. Maybe remove Cascading Cataracts? (Your spells are not THAT color hungry.)
Have you considered Warstorm Surge and Terror of the Peaks as a mean to do damage even before attacking? The dragon can even be cloned with Flamerush Rider, Flameshadow Conjuring and Soul Foundry for extra copies of the same effect (the game ends quiiiickly after that). I'd remove Dragonmaster Outcast for that, since its effect is slow (albeit amazing if he lasts on the field).
Extra combats: You don't have to worry about your opponents' answers if they never get to their turn, so...
- Moraug, Fury of Akoum, Aurelia, the Warleader, Combat Celebrant, Scourge of the Throne (I believe there is an infinite combo involving those two), Savage Beating, Response / Resurgence, Breath of Fury (always attach it to your disposable tokens to keep attacking).
Winds of Abandon might replace Hour of Reckoning. I don't really like to lose Ghired on a boardwipe, since he costs 7 mana to recast. Winds of Abandon also works as evasion for your creatures, since your opponents won't have creatures to block. As for the ramp it offers, an opponent can't do anything with the extra lands if he/she's dead, right? :-)
Card draw: Alongside ramp, it is my main concern with Ghired. I want to be able to rebuild my board after a boardwipe.
I believe that Camaraderie can be substituted for Shamanic Revelation as the latter cost less mana. Mouth / Feed is another option that creates its own big token. Return of the Wildspeaker can either draw cards or buff creatures for an alpha strike.
Keeper of Fables triggers all other power-based card draw, while giving easy draw triggers to all your trampling creatures. Elder Gargaroth is a buffed, more versatile version of it. And remember: both can be cloned for extra juicy draw or extra tokens.
Sylvan Library is an overall great card filter for your regular draws. It gets better with shufflers like fetchlands and tutors.
Since your deck is focused on attacking and getting extra combat steps, Etali, Primal Storm might be a fun way to play your opponents' cards while lowering their life points.
Some cards I suggest you to remove:
- Sundering Growth: you already have enough flexible removal. You will almost never be in a situation in which the token to copy and the artifact/enchantment to remove are optimal choices. Since you're running Eladamri's Call, Reclamation Sage might be worth including (and cloned for the enjoyment of your friends).
- Starnheim Unleashed: one token is too little for a whole card slot in the deck. If you're foretelling, it costs a lot of mana to be worthwhile. The game might be over before that.
- Growing Ranks: waiting a whole rotation to get a token which does not even have haste is not ideal.
- Ghired's Belligerence, Full Flowering: good for a late game play, mostly dead until then. I like those, but I removed them in favor of more mid-game cards, since I might not last until 9+ mana.
- Trostani, Selesnya's Voice: while on-theme, it does little to advance your win condition.
- Thunderfoot Baloth: not an amazing buff. Your creatures are big already, and Garruk's Uprising takes care of the evasion.
- Feldon of the Third Path: all-star when there is a lot of graveyard filling - there is none in this deck. (I really tried to keep him on my deck because I like the card, but most of the time there was no creature in my graveyard.)
- Eldrazi Displacer: are you using it for a combo? I couldn't identify it.
Some cool lands for you to try out: (landbase is my favorite part of deckbuilding)
- Castle Garenbrig: how easily do you have access to a Forest for it to be worth including in your deck?
- Rogue's Passage: can sometimes help you to finish an opponent.
- Scavenger Grounds: if you face graveyard-centric decks (you don't seem to use your graveyard much).
- Hanweir Battlements Meld: another haste enabler.
- Gargoyle Castle: sometimes you need a flying token. (I rarely use it, but I like to have the option.)
- Gemstone Caverns: a turn-0 ramp when the first turn is not yours.
- Bonders' Enclave: card draw on a land (easily accessible).
- Mana Confluence, Battlefield Forge, Karplusan Forest, Brushland, Horizon Canopy, Sunbaked Canyon, Prismatic Vista, Cragcrown Pathway Flip, Branchloft Pathway Flip, Needleverge Pathway Flip: more untapped dual lands.
I hope I've been of some help to you. I didn't suggest many token-related cards because I believe that, as long as you have decent ramp, draw and removal in your deck, you can win to your heart's content. Wanna throw in a Godsire? Do it. Prefer to clone your opponents' creatures with Hate Mirage? Go ahead. But the fundamentals of the deck is what makes it flow consistently. Have fun and smash 'em all (and run Doubling Season for extra fun) ;-)
5 months ago
Personally, aholder7, I'd much rather sit across a 2 or 3 card combo that the controller can say "Okay, A does B which results in you're dead." far more than "Okay I tap A and add XXX. Now I can pay XX and activate Z to put N on the stack. Before N resolves, holding priority, I'm going to cast L in response. Now remember L can't be countered because of J. Alright so L resolves which allows me to untap A. I'm going to retap A and float XXX, giving me XXXXX. I can spend XX to activate Z, putting 2N on the stack..."
That's a lot of nonsense to keep track of, and it doesn't always result in a win. Worse than not winning is when the player controlling the combo cheats their way to win.
The guy who goes by Grey featured on the YouTube channel I HATE YOUR DECK did this with Gemstone Caverns, going infinite with Daretti, Scrap Savant. He ended up "winning" by cheating - intentionally or otherwise. Because whilst Gemstone Caverns was in his opening hand, he also went first.
Read the card. He couldn't have produced to win.
And I feel like more experienced players, who play competitively with the sole intention to win, are far more likely to make a convoluted mess of things to try and bully their way to victory, riding on the backs of the hope that their opponents will be too inexperienced to understanding what's going on, to stop them.
Have you ever sat across from the "Short Change Scam" in retail? I have. Same principal. Inundate and saturate with information until they concede; Then convince them of your position and argue that they are wrong.
I don't like being scammed, and these massive 30+ minute combos feel like a scam.