Order of Whiteclay

Order of Whiteclay

Creature — Kithkin Cleric

(1)(White)(White), Untap: Return target creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard to play.

Latest Decks as Commander

Order of Whiteclay Discussion

lagotripha on Callous Clerics (Budget)

2 months ago

I like the list. It has real potential.

I'm not a fan of doomed and null priest unless they are cheating out big creatures - the only big cleric I can think of is Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. Resurrecting multiple other clerics can be done in easier, less disruptable ways.

Many of the most powerful sideboard cards (mainboardable in many metas) are clerics, and that means that with 75 cards including sideboard, something that can really kick butt in a metagame is out there.

The option to ressurect Children of Korlis, Containment Priest, Ethersworn Canonist, Fiend Hunter, Grand Abolisher, Leonin Arbiter, Auriok Champion, Leonin Relic-Warder, Remorseful Cleric, Sanctifier en-Vec, Sin Collector - there are too many great clerics for this not to become something. Even stuff like Orzhov Pontiff and True Believer has seen sideboard play in the kind of creature-led deck it would be.

You have access to all the tools from soul sisters, with Soul Warden also getting Marauding Blight-Priest as another piece. Vizier of Remedies threatens a combo line. Efficient 1 drops means that tools like Orzhov Charm, Ranger-Captain of Eos and Proclamation of Rebirth look a lot better. Order of Whiteclay and oddities like Hanweir Militia Captain  Flip it offer more options than you'd expect, and it only takes one good interaction with them to turn them into powerhouse engines.

All of that before looking at w/b getting the best removal in the game means that some variant of this list will make a dent in a major tournament, once someone figures it out.

kamarupa on Princess Bride Tribute [HELP ME!]

1 year ago

I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks - I've already changed Miracle Max to Order of Whiteclay. Do you think Bishop of Rebirth is a better match?

Tzefick on How would you give white …

1 year ago

TL;DR: The pre-text is LONG. Sorry about that, but there's a lot to unfold about the subject. If you just want to skip down to the suggestions I brainstormed, go below the first set of 3 lines.

It is no secret that the Commander community for a long time has regarded white as one of the weaker colors in Commander, especially as a monocolor. Many have pointed their fingers at how well the color achieves mana ramp and card draw/advantage.

White actually do have a small slew of card advantage and ramp cards or cards that in essence cheats the requirement for mana.

White has raw card draw in Mentor of the Meek and Dawn of Hope, although hidden behind a requirement in form of a trigger. Both are triggers that are fairly easy to achieve but not without costs. Not to forget Sram, Senior Edificer (and Puresteel Paladin) - but again behind a trigger requiring a very specific type of deck building. White has additional card advantage through regaining access to cards once lost, like through a Sun Titan getting back small permanents, or Nomad Mythmaker, Order of Whiteclay, or Bishop of Rebirth.

White has ramp in form of Knight of the White Orchid and Kor Cartographer and pseudo card advantage in good ol' Land Tax. The knight has a requirement that you need to be behind to actually ramp, and that aspect goes again in many of white's attempts to imitate ramp and card draw. White can only catch up, they cannot get ahead. These aspects are most recently seen through Verge Rangers (pseudo card advantage - not ramp, you don't get access to more lands than 1 per turn) and through Cartographer's Hawk. There's also Oath of Lieges but that is a symmetrical effect and may as well just benefit some of your opponents as much as it does you.

White can cheat the requirement for mana in a few instances, like casting Resurrection on a higher costing creature, an aspect they share with black and often a favorite when the two are paired. Where they differ is that black usually does it for less mana at another resource expense, and that black has different means to get those creatures out into your graveyard to set it all up. White has none of these opportunities/advantages.

This thread mainly aims to discuss white getting card draw/advantage in the Commander format and how they would achieve it to fit their color identity, but we can talk about the Commander format in general as well. To clarify, the topic is aimed at discussing how white could get card draw/advantage and not really whether or not they should - do feel free to voice your opinion for or against but please keep it limited and instead focus on how card draw could fit into white's color identity. It doesn't necessarily have to be from a place within the current color identity, but could be exploring new design space that hasn't been seen before.


Let's examine how other colors achieve card advantage:

Blue is super easy and the main color that achieves it, they usually do it straight as an investment for the specific purpose of gaining more resources; Concentrate. Blue also has access to looting options where they draw cards and discard cards (or the other way around); Merfolk Looter / Tolarian Winds. Blue also has the largest collection of cards with Flashback, so even once Blue uses a resource from their hand, they can do it again from their graveyard; Deep Analysis - although these cards are usually more costly than their non-flashback peers.

Black is also relatively easy as they imitate blue's investment but at an additional cost; Night's Whisper. As previously stated black can also access their graveyard like white and reuse mainly creatures that have died or otherwise put into the graveyard (from say an Entomb) by using Animate Dead or Zombify. Black's ability even goes beyond their own graveyard and dip into their opponent's graveyard. Black also have some aspect of self-discarding, usually as a symmetrical effect that aims at harming their opponents while still being able to access the cards they lost themselves; like Cunning Lethemancer.

Red is relatively new on this block, as they have for a long while had many of the same issues as white. Red did however have cards that looted (drawing and discarding cards) in the concept of picking up the strongest of a larger selection of cards - this is also called card filtering as you don't get an advantage in resources, only the selection. However red also has a selection of cards with flashback or activated or triggered abilities from the graveyard. With the introduction of impulse draw - so named from Act on Impulse, where red exiles a number of cards from the top of their library for the ability to play those for a limited time. Thus red has achieved temporary card draw.

Green is one of the richest colors in the color pie at the moment, having access to a lot of control cards, protective measures, card advantage, ramp and swingy plays. It is no wonder to me how green is one of the stronger colors in Commander. Green has access to some very strong card advantage cards that fits right into the slow format of Commander. Rishkar's Expertise is a favorite as it combines the Commander format's slow pace, green's affinity for big creatures, and a powerful swing in resources, all in one card. Another is the ability to draw from creatures being cast or entering the battlefield. Outside the slow Commander format, you don't really see these types of cards, but within the format they are strong and valuable. Green also has access to the most flexible way to reuse cards from the graveyard through Eternal Witness, Greenwarden of Murasa, Road of Return - road and Myth Unbound are even commander specific benefits that makes casting your commander cheaper, within the color with the most access to mana acceleration. So the color that needs it the least has ways to reduce their mana demand on casting their commander. I would argue this aspect should have been placed within white and/or blue more than in green. Black is getting in on it with Netherborn Altar, so in the future we might see the other colors circumventing the commander tax in some fashion.

White has very few card draw cards (the best of which are mentioned above) and all are locked behind some kind of condition that is not insignificant, compared to something like Beast Whisperer.


It would seem white lacks behind quite a bit in this aspect. When a color cannot do something itself or not very well, they usually seek toward artifacts to fix their issues. Here you can utilize Mind's Eye or Loreseeker's Stone or Arcane Encyclopedia or Book of Rass or Endless Atlas or Skullclamp or Tome of Legends to name a handful of the better variants. What most of these have in common is that they are expense to cast or maintain or require some specific deck building choices to function.

If the general consensus of Commander players are to be taken into account along with the perceived strength of each color, it would seem these artifacts are not enough to help white overcome its lack of card draw. Furthermore white's other strengths doesn't seem to have enough impact to offset this lack.

The general argument I have seen against providing white with card advantage is; it breaks the color pie, white can utilize artifacts to fix their weaknesses to some extend, white's strengths comes from mass land destruction, taxing (Thalia, Guardian of Thraben) and hatebears (Aven Mindcensor). Again I don't really want this thread to be overshadowed about arguing for/against White getting card draw into their color identity, let's just assume white eventually will get card draw - how would that look like?

Brief discussion on the counter arguments Show

I really like the way WotC incorporated card draw into red, as impulse draw feels red but it is card draw and it helps red smooth out some edges it may have in especially multiplayer formats, such as Commander.

So, if we assume white is eventually going to get card draw, how would it look like? Here's a couple of ideas for concepts on how to incorporate a card draw mechanic with white flavor.




Taxing

Good ol' taxing. We already have Smothering Tithe, so something similar to Rhystic Study could be a possibility. It could be an aura you put on a land, so whenever it is tapped that opponent pays mana or grants you card draw. It doesn't necessarily have to be mana that is taxed, it could also just be the action/trigger itself that is the tax.

A taxing example Show



Warring / "spoils of war"

White is the most militarized color that deals in organized military strategy, being the main color for the creature types Soldier and Knight. White is often associated with combat and attacking as well. Perhaps it should be used to its advantage and provide some means to acquire card draw - figure it a substitute for roleplay wise gaining lands / trade routes / power / intelligence.

Example of war "spoils" Show



Trading

I actually really like the idea of this one, although it may be harder to properly accomplish.

White has before had trades happening like Armistice and Bargain. There's also the advocates and Benevolent Offering but they are not unique to white and is a set mechanic. It's been a while since this was part of white's color pie, but it could be again.

Example on trading Show

The flavor is there, as white is a color of community and peace, so trading seems like a natural byproduct. I really like the political aspect from this mechanic when considering multiplayer formats.



Divination

An alternative to direct card draw; you choose a card type (instant, sorcery, creature, land, artifact, enchantment, planeswalker) and then look at top X cards of your library, you may reveal a card of the chosen type and put it into hand, put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

This reflects the Commune with Nature (which is a green card I know) but it seems to fit white's color pie as the more religious color, to ask the gods/divine/faith for a boon and maybe it is answered, maybe not. Obviously you can deck tech to increase your chances but the idea is a card draw that is not guaranteed. Under the right circumstances it can be stronger than a card draw as it may filter.

Example on Divination Show



Honor the ancestors

I really wanted to create some kind of mechanic that allowed white to dump cards into their graveyard, to synergize with white's inherent ability to generate card advantage through recurring permanents, especially low CMC permanents. As it stands white needs to cast those smaller permanents and have them put into the graveyard from the battlefield - thus making these recurring effects a lot more narrow than their black and even green brethren, who can more easily set up these beneficial plays. But it doesn't seem very much like a white thing to self-mill, ala Surveil, nor do they discard. For white to have this particular synergy you would have to make them gain it without much prior precedent.

One thing that seemed sort of within the flavor of white would be to honor the ancestors, remember the history, keep to the traditions. I think you could work that flavor into some kind of mechanic that could work to white's advantage.

Examples on Honoring the Ancestors Show




Anyway, that's just what I brainstormed for. Like I said before I really liked the flavor on red's card draw and I want white to get something similar. Do you like any of my suggestions or think you can refine them? How would you give white card draw that is flavorful?

[email protected]_only on The Church of Sacrifice

2 years ago

list of possilbe clerics to consider:

Heliod, God of the Sun - okay, not a cleric, but makes cleric tokens

Alms Collector - good card draw engine in EDH - prevents players from drawing their deck in one go also

Auriok Champion - linear upgrade from Soul Warden - resists removal

Auriok Replica - good sac for anti-commander damage, fits cleric type, colorless to cast. not super amazing, but worth mentioning

Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim - not all that useful until you gain some life, then amazing removal. and 2/3 deathtouch for 2 isn't bad either

Battlefield Medic - damage prevention based on clerics. nothing to special, but tribal themed, so I mention it here.

Beloved Chaplain - evasion that's hard to top - can't be blocked by creatures, can't be removed by creatures.

Blind Zealot - sacs to destroy target creature when it hits a player, good for general

Cabal Archon - sac outlet? check. Cleric tribal? check. sadistic grin? double check.

Cabal Executioner - on par with blind zealot - lacks the evasion, but doesn't sac to activate. mixed bag, but not horrible

Children of Korlis - sacs to revert life total to start of turn? yes please

Custodi Lich - grants Monarch, and forces creature sac on play and when you regain it. seems good.

Custodi Soulcaller - requires a few players to be super amazing, but still worthwhile even if all you get back is Children of Korlis

Daru Spiritualist - not quite pro- red, but helps agaisnt spot removal for entire tribe. bonus if paired with Shaman en-Kor

Devout Chaplain - most clerics are humans, exile is good. enough said.

Eight-and-a-Half-Tails - good protection for your side of the field.

Entomber Exarch - cleric that can reanimate or force pitch from opponents. not gamebreaker, but solid card with options

Frontline Medic - clerics are indistructable as long as 3 swing? seems good

Giver of Runes - really should be vodka-aunt of runes, but w/e, still good

High Priest of Penance - great to chump with, better with aethreos, best when indistructable

Kor Sanctifiers - decent artifact / enchantment removal on a cleric body, not much else to say.

Leonin Arbiter - the staple of death & taxes and hate bears is, in fact, a cleric. seems useful.

Leonin Relic-Warder - fiend hunter for artifacts & enchantments, not much else to say.

Mikaeus, the Lunarch - cleric that slowly buffs your side

Order of Whiteclay - recusion cleric. not as useful once it gets vigilence, so fair warning.

Pious Evangel  Flip - sac outlet that transforms into a mini- blood artist, is cleric.

Pontiff of Blight - mass extort is disgusting. seven toughness is hard to remove.

Ravos, Soultender - recursion + steroids = win

Remorseful Cleric - mass graveyard remval + evasion is good

Shaman en-Kor - this guy is bonkers, and with any form of damage prevention makes your side nigh unkillable

Sin Collector - exiles instants & sorceries, solid card. never returns them either. probably is on a wanted list in some libraries for back charges

True Believer - if you don't want people to target you, ivory mask with legs is a cleric too

Tymna the Weaver - less useful in duels, but solid for mass card draw otherwise

Vile Deacon - cleric tribal lord for black, comparible to doubtless one

Weathered Wayfarer - land tax on legs. still a cleric

Whipgrass Entangler - ghostly prison based on clerics for mana, but single target per use

Whisper, Blood Liturgist - creature recusion that nukes for 6 with general out, or mass reanimation if opponen't don't take it.

Profane Prayers - not an X spell, but cleric tribal nuke seems kinda on-theme.

enpc on Emmara's Legions

2 years ago

Needs Chord of Calling . Good card and a nice way to tap stuff.

Also, the ultra janky combo that is Earthcraft + Blasting Station + Order of Whiteclay + Emmara, maker of soldier dudes is fun.

hkhssweiss on Ayli Clerics

2 years ago

Blacksagres

Hmm, it depends on the life gain you will get. The problem with most Orzhov decks is that the card draw is fairly limited to only black, the draws we can get is based on life. What's great is Ad Nauseam is an instant speed spell, paying 15 life is not the worse for refilling your hand for 7 cards. The downside is yes you reveal but at the same time that's 7 cards more resources than your opponents. You will also negate the life loss with the gain from your Clerics, that's my perspective on it.

That aside their are a couple other suggestions, like Gadiaten recommended earlier Lifeline is a hell of a card in Ayli. Oversold Cemetery is another create card to keep that pressure on board. Academy Rector is a cleric that can grab you any enchantment card straight to the battlefield. Alms Collector is like the more fair version of Notion Thief but it is worth consideration for a slot. Children of Korlis is hidden tech with life loss like say Necropotence or like I said Ad Nauseam :P. Custodi Soulcaller is a decent card that reanimates as well. Ethersworn Canonist is great when slowing down opponent's and vindicating their board with Ayli. Same with Leonin Arbiter, taxes them for searching their library. Sanctum Prelate is also another good card for disruption. Order of Whiteclay can be used for recursion as well, although a bit slow.

Priest of Gix can lead to ramp if you have Edgewalker on field as well. Twilight Prophet is also a card I like cuz it gains you life and card draw. Same with Tymna the Weaver. Weathered Wayfarer is a card that also fixes your mana.

Some protection cards against removal I would consider although cmc wise quite a bit is Fountain Watch and Teferi's Protection. Selfless Spirit is great for protection as well.

enpc on Emmara Stacks?

2 years ago

Since you already run Earthcraft, you could add Order of Whiteclay and Blasting Station. Order is decent by itself with sacrifice based stax effects and together you cna form and infinite combo with your commander.

Tap Emmara for white from Earthcraft making a token, tap the token for white and then sac Emmara to Blasting Station. Tap Order of Whiteclay for mana and then use the three mana to untap it and bring back Emmara. Rinse and repeat.

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