Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Legendary Creature — Human Soldier

First strike

Noncreature spells cost more to cast.

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Printings View all

Set Rarity
Masters 25 (A25) None
Dark Ascension (DKA) Rare
Promo Set (000) Rare

Combos Browse all

Legality

Format Legality
Tiny Leaders Legal
Noble Legal
Leviathan Legal
Magic Duels Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Vintage Legal
Modern Legal
Penny Dreadful Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Vanguard Legal
Legacy Legal
Archenemy Legal
Planechase Legal
1v1 Commander Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Unformat Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben occurrence in decks from the last year

Commander / EDH:

All decks: 0.02%

Modern:

All decks: 0.22%

White: 6.32%

Legacy:

All decks: 0.36%

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben Discussion

ShreddedByCrows on Offenza is the Best Defenza HELP

2 days ago

Lots of subthemes you got there, that's some interesting challenge. All in all, you're running way too many high-costed cards for a Commander that generally revolves around more of an aggressive strategy. I'll further provide you a personalized list of adjustments, trying my best to keep it at the lowest budget as possible.

Very first thing, 37 lands is too much for an Anafenza deck imo. You can easily go down to 35/34 in order to feel more proactive. That being said, the mana base of your decklist is pretty unstable, and you'll need better mana rocks, around 5/6 good rocks should do it helping you stabilizing.

The second thing to bring up is that you play loads and loads of creatures with actually specific abilities that don't always combine altogether well. Like, for example, in which way would Slimefoot, the Stowaway help Anafenza, the Foremost being consistent? My answer, without another kind of appreciation than logic: not any single one. If you need cheap legendary to keep it up with your theme, there are better options, but remind that this was only a little example.

Finally, you lack reactivity because of very few instant/flash spells. It's not as necessary as some think, but still have a way to protect dutifully your creatures is a key for aggro/midrange decks in EDH. Being able to answer what your opponents bring up to the tape is moreover essential, and I don't see enough removals/tricks in there.

So, let's take a closer look from now on. I'll make some different categories starting with the cuts to make it easier to read.

1.) Back to 100 cards:

2.) Cheap Improvements:

2.1.) Mana Rocks:

2.2.) More removals:

Those are the classical ones you surely know. They are easily affordable and would give your deck a small lift at controlling the board state.

2.3.) Better Legendaries:

  • Mikaeus, the Lunarch > not the cheapest already, but really effective, almost a staple for your deck style

  • Hope of Ghirapur > underrated card, does a lot, insane with recursion to lock down a combo player at low cost

  • Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit > certainly a staple / and somewhat a reason to get rid of the token subtheme which is maybe a bit too much

  • Syr Faren, the Hengehammer > also certainly a staple / aggressive, good interactions with Anafenza, better than lords already in your deck

  • Kethis, the Hidden Hand > Yawgmoth's Will for legendaries? I'll take that. It could also be a nice alternative commander when you face more control-ish decks you're stuck against, enabling you to have an efficient late game on its own once made your commander.

  • Mangara of Corondor > Legendary creature which works as a nonsituational removal. Really good. Even if you can't always activate it when it hits the table, your opponents have to get rid of it using their hand resources and you make 1 for 1.

  • Masako the Humorless > Underplayed card / can be a game-changer / and it's a legendary creature.

2.4.) Voltron Outlet:

2.5.) Other cool cards to look at:

3.) Medium Budget Improvements:

3.1.) Mana Rocks:

3.2.) Even more removals:

3.3.) Legendaries' Staples:

3.4.) Neverending Voltron Outlet:

  • Konda's Banner > Yeh, it's a little bit expensive money speaking, but it does everything you're searching for, like a bridge between your Cats, your legends and your Voltron strategy.

  • Skullclamp > staple

3.5.) Cool cards:

4.) Expensive Improvements:

5.) Some other cards you could try (which I mostly haven't, or for which I have a doubt about their efficiency):

TheAnnihilator on H: Devoted Druid Combo; W: ...

1 week ago

Hey all! I've recently decided to let go of my Druid combo stuff, since I prefer a more Pod-like approach as opposed to all-in combo, so I have the following available:

Playsets of:
Devoted Druid (Ultimate Masters)
Vizier of Remedies
Giver of Runes
Finale of Devastation
3 Duskwatch Recruiter  Flip
Eladamri's Call
Knight of Autumn
Birds of Paradise (2 M12, M11, Battlebond)

also:
1 Silent Clearing
2 Walking Ballista
1 Ranger-Captain of Eos
3 Postmortem Lunge
1 Chord of Calling (M15, Russian)
1 Collector Ouphe
3 Veil of Summer
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (Dark Ascension)
4 Restoration Angel (Avacyn Restored)
3 Wall of Omens
1 Spellskite

So yeah, I'm keeping the lands, Hierarchs, Eldritch Evolutions, and Pod stuff (you can't pry Voice of Resurgence or Kitchen Finks from my cold dead hands), but most everything else I have is fair game. If there's anything else I may not have listed, feel free to ask about it. I probably have it. :)

I'm looking for:
Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Ice-Fang Coatl
1 Spell Queller
2 Monastery Mentor (I have 1 Korean if anyone wants to swap their English one)
1x Cavern of Souls (preferable Innistrad, either printing is fine tho)
2x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Hornet Queen
I will also binder dive, but my binder seems to show only the foil/promos?

xtechnetia on I don't like where card ...

1 month ago

https://articles.starcitygames.com/premium/synergy-vs-protect-the-queen/

This has been a trend for a long time.

However, I think recent card design (from War of the Spark onwards) has exacerbated the issue to the point where a lot more people are sitting up to take notice, and the effects are being felt from Standard to Vintage. My thoughts for why:

  • Planeswalkers have never been a card type with proper answers (other than overwhelming board presence). Until WAR, this was kinda tolerable because they were at least generally high CMC permanents, and so were largely control finishers (which is fine) or an alternate angle of attack for some midrange/prison strategies (also fine). WAR introduced incredibly impactful, low-CMC planeswalkers that are difficult to answer with board presence due to how fast they come down, to say nothing of some of their static effects.
  • To contrast with creatures, although creatures have been growing stronger and stronger for years, strong creature removal (e.g. Plow, Bolt, Edict) was built into the game from the very beginning and creatures were inherently designed to generally await a turn cycle for real value (obviously ETB effects have mitigated this somewhat). Goyf is a great creature, but can easily be Pushed or Pathed or whatever; no harm, no foul. No real equivalent exists for walkers, especially since they always get one loyalty activation off before ever passing priority.
  • We are seeing an uptick in cards that dissuade classic interaction paths - the most egregious being Veil of Summer. Counterspells and discard are extremely powerful effects and it is a design flaw of the game for them to be restricted to their signature colors, but regardless of that, these effects are the linchpin on which healthy Magic thrives - i.e. nothing is beyond interaction. Veil efficiently undermines this interaction, which leads to players favoring their own linear strategies that they can guarantee to push through with Veil.
  • Beyond just Veil, though, there has been a noticeable uptick in "can't be countered" text on cards. I mean, even as a control player, I love Fry and think it's great design, but I worry when I see it alongside Shifting Ceratops, Thought Distortion, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Destiny Spinner, and whatever else I forgot, all within a couple of sets of each other. As much as I hate to sound like a grumpy old man, I strongly get the feeling that the stereotypical new "hates counterspells/discard/removal/blah/blah/blah" players are being overly catered to.
  • The WAR walkers are emblematic of a problematic design trend: asymmetrical hate effects. Prison effects have historically been symmetrical because of how it inherently balances prison decks - e.g. a deck wishing to run Thalia, Guardian of Thraben MUST rely heavily on creature spells to function properly. And in doing so, this also encourages interesting deckbuilding design. Now, of course, we instead get Narset, Parter of Veils asymmetrically hosing extra card draw, so there are no deckbuilding concessions to make - jam in your blue deck and away you go.
  • This has been a thing for a long time in some form or another, like how hexproof supplanted shroud. You know how everyone likes to complain about being a shitty color (or at best a splash utility color)? Part of the reason is because cards are often actually properly designed with powerful but symmetrical effects (like sweepers), meaning that you have to make deckbuilding concessions to see their real power. But since Wizards decided that can just have generic goodstuff with no build around necessary, how is (and to a lesser extent ) supposed to compete with that?
  • Narset (and the other WAR walkers) are especially bad here because their asymmetric effects come in the color that cares about them the most. As a control player, I'm actually cool with a card that has Teferi, Time Raveler's static effect (although I would like it to be symmetrical, as described above), but what I cannot forgive is that said static effect is attached to a card...or in other words, the colors that care most about instant speed reaction.
  • Why is the above a problem? Mental Misstep problem. If I'm a control player playing the mirror, all I need to do is stick a Teferi and I basically can't lose. When the best counter to a card is resolving it yourself first (even if only for a particular matchup), that should set off massive warnings in everyone's minds.
  • By Wizards' own admission, best-of-1 play (i.e. a good chunk of Arena play) now influences card design. This means that we're going to get a lot more "maindeckable" cards like the new Kunoros, Hound of Athreos being a maindeckable Grafdigger's Cage. This leads to decks being really boring and similar, since every deck has to somehow be ready for everything else, and since reactive strategies inherently do better in best-of-3 (cause you need your answers to line up with the opponent's deck), that means proactive jam-first strategies are even more the way of the future than they already are.
  • It takes a lot to build around something these days. What's a mechanic that's so powerful that it's worth building around (i.e. playing otherwise suboptimal cards for)? There are only a handful that ever made it into eternal formats, like dredge, storm, miracle, and affinity. Pioneer is notably devoid of any of these, and we can see the result: fair decks are all just generic goodstuff in whatever chosen colors (and unfair decks are always shown the door if they ever put up real results).
  • Even Commander is not exempt from these trends. Part of the fun in EDH, at least nominally, is that you can explore interactions throughout all of Magic's history (like Legacy and Vintage), but at a tiny fraction of the cost and at a power level that suits you and your friends. I fear that the direct-to-Commander products Wizards pumps out undermines this, by printing generically good commanders that are stupid easy to build around (or have abilities that function from the command zone cause why not), and by printing "must includes" like Command Tower and Arcane Signet that reduce the actual number of choices players have in their decks (not to mention essentially tax players to stay competitive).

Whirlwind_2100 on Avacyn: Hope Eternal

1 month ago

so, after rigorous playtesting, I have come up with some cards to cut and add that will hopefully msk the deck better:

cuttables

  • Alabaster Kirin This does absolutely nothing, has no prison effects, and is kinda useless here

  • Baird, Steward of Argive His prison effect is okay, but you can definitely slot in better options for not too much more money

  • Knight of Sursi Once again, just a vanilla card that doesn't do anything except get a small body on the battlefield, which isnt very good in commander, even if it is indestructible

  • Misthoof Kirin Only really okay in a morph deck, this is kinda useless here

  • Oreskos Explorer just a worse Land Tax

  • Segovian Angel a 1/1 with vigilance has to swing 120 times to win. just a terrible card all around.

  • Silver Knight Kinda bad, doesn't really do much .

  • Shepherd of the Lost this would be good if it have every other creature it's abilities, but alas, it's kinda terrible, especially because I'm smelling a voltron sub-theme around Avacyn

  • White Knight Unless your in a very black heavy meta, this is just bad, and is barley passable even if you have said meta

  • Journey to Nowhere a worse Pacifism

  • All your lands except basic plains. You need more utility lands, not just non-basics that do nothing

  • Wing Shards This one is debatable, although I don't see you casting a bunch of spells and having the mana to cast this, due to the lack of ramp you have.

  • Armillary Sphere bad ramp

  • Traveler's Amulet bad ramp

  • Orazca Relic have fun waiting 5 turns to get blessing and then only drawing one card

  • Take Vengeance crappy removal

  • Bishop of Wings I don't see this deck supporting an angel tribal

Potential Add-Ins

Thanks so much for reading my list, and I hope this has been some help to you. My main problem with this deck was it ran too much inefficient removal and bad creatures, but once these are added in, I think the deck should be a lot for mean. Have a great day! =)

dingusdingo on Counterpoint: White doesn't need ramp ...

2 months ago

I totally agree. While it would certainly make mono white commanders far more viable, white already has enough going for it to make it a sought after color for wedges or dual colored commanders.

White sees lots of play in stax decks, as it packs the most hatebears of any color. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben Leonin Arbiter Aven Mindcensor Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite Grand Abolisher Hokori, Dust Drinker Ethersworn Canonist Kataki, War's Wage are all cards that see competitive play. You have far more fringe cases like Vryn Wingmare Alms Collector Thalia, Heretic Cathar Loxodon Gatekeeper and others which are seen on the fringe. The hatebears become a secondary wincon for competitive by pressuring life totals while also stopping the game.

White also gets a BUNCH of incredible supporting effects for stax builds. Armageddon and the expensive Ravages of War close games. Smothering Tithe plays great under stax. There are also numerous enchantments are shut off combos or lines of play, such as Rest in Peace Stony Silence Leyline of Sanctity Suppression Field and all kinds of less effective variants.

White also gives some of the most efficient 1-for-1 removal. While you will fall behind with 1-for-1's in a 4 player pod, its still important to pack StP and Path. White also gets sweepers for EVERY SINGLE PERMANENT TYPE. You read that correctly kids. You can do A-lot-for-1 trades with cards like Wrath of God Austere Command Cleanfall Paraselene and others.

White also gets one of the best pieces of combo protection available, Silence . White has a few tutors that are playable, Enlightened Tutor Steelshaper's Gift Open the Armory Academy Rector Stoneforge Mystic . You get card advantage via effects like Land Tax Tithe Weathered Wayfarer and more.

True, white doesn't have very many cards with the word "Draw" explicitly on it. You're able to accrue advantage, but its mostly incremental. What white lacks in raw draw you make up for with value. The sweepers are the best example of this imo. The opponent may have drawn more cards than you, but trading 1 card for 10 creatures on the board is effectively 9 card advantage.

I personally enjoy most duals or wedges that include White + Black or White + Blue. I find it to be similar to Green, in that I don't feel bad with having it as a secondary or tertiary color, and that it solves a lot of problems and gives me access to cards I want to run.

Joe_Ken_ on Counterpoint: White doesn't need ramp ...

2 months ago

Well it is also the fact that white’s strongest abilities being land destruction with cards like Armagedon and tax effects like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben are very looked down in and tend to get you hated out of the game by the other players once they know that you are packing hose kinds of cards. People are mostly just looking for answers to fix the area so where it is weak in. I frankly don’t like looking at Smothering Tithe as the answer because we only just got that card this year and it is still only a single card.

enpc on White's issues in Commander

3 months ago

Tzefick: I read through the original post, but I want to circle back to it later. And you will have to excuse the order in general, I was responding to this across the course of a day.

On artifact removal

There are a few points to unpack here. The first, and most importantly, is that removal is a big part of Magic, the Gathering and honestly, is what makes games (and deckbuilding) interesting. IF MtG was just about amassing board states and then slamming big creatures into other big creatures, the game would be much more boring (not to mention take much longer). But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it.

As for dealing with removal (especially mass removal) - there are still many options that white already has access to which does actually allow them to ramp. Wayfarer's Bauble , Burnished Hart , Solemn Simulacrum , Kor Cartographer , Knight of the White Orchid are all perfectly valid land ramp cards. Sure, the average CMC of these spells is higher than their green counterparts, however green is THE ramp colour, so it would be expecteded that there would be hihger costs/more contitions to be met for other colours to do a similar thing. And that's without even touching on cards like Sword of the Animist or Explorer's Scope which are both equipment and what white excels at.

In addition to this, while not ramping, white already has access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer , Land Tax , and Tithe which allow you to consistently hit your lands. While not as good as outright ramping, if you're hitting your lands each turn, you're genereally not doing too badly. And when combined with other ramp effects, by mid to late game you still end up with as much mana as most players.

Now onto the artifacts. Yes, there are a lot of good artifact removal effects which can slow players down. But I would also point out a few things here too.

Mana dorks are a very common form of ramp in commander. Most green decks will run a bunch of them and there are even strategies (elf ball) which almost solely relies on them. But just as artifacts can be hated on, white has some of THE best creature removal in the game. This includes both single target but also mass removal, which can severely hamper your opponents with regards to ramp. And unlike green (who is the main comparison point here), white doesn't rely on mana dorks, leaving you relatively unaffected from a mana standpoint.

In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many. Sure, this doesn't stop everything, but it can shut down a lot of (especially green) big bad ones. We are seeing a lot of these printed in new sets, to the point where WotC are really trying to drive home the point that "this is what white does".

Ok, now circling back (And I will do this more than once) and picking up on my previous paragraph. On the topic of land ramp - white is very good at shutting down this. between all of the MLD, Balance type effects and library shutdown effects like Aven Mindcensor , white hating on green's land ramp is to green hating on artifacts (i.e. white's main ramp source). Again I reiterate, this is what white does. It has been made abundantly clear, since we have time and time again seen printing of cards that equalise the board, to take away other players' advantages. So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall.

On Graveyard Recursion

This topic follows on from the whole artifact removal thing. Yes, white is very strong in graveyard recursion. And just to touch on one of your points, even recently white got a bunch of graveyard recursion via cards like Daring Archaeologist and Restoration Specialist . Not repeatable sure, but still decent. And let's face it, any mono-white commander product is going to see Sun Titan reprinted. But back to the whole recusrion thing in general - while white is good at recursion, it's permanent based, not specifically land based. Yes, this overlaps (especially in the case of Sun Titan ) but here it's just a bit of nice value.

Land recursion is very much a green thing (I'm not even going to list the cards) and that makes sense. But for white, the recursion is generally symmetric if en masse. And again, this makes sense. White is good at wrecking stuff, so it's also good at bringing stuff back. But the point is that just because you wreck stuff and bring it back symmetrically doesn't mean that you can't exile a graveyard or two in the middle. Ok, but what's my concern with what you're recommending (both across the board but let's talk specifics)?

So, fundamentally I have no issues with the release of white cards which can return permanents from the graveyard to the battlefield, and fundamentally I have no issues with pairing these cards with any kind of fetchlands to ramp. As you mentioned, we have the new Sevinne's Reclamation and Brought Back alongside Sun Titan and Profound Journey .

Where I have issue in this case is not with the concept of having a cheaper spell that hits smaller stuff, but in this case your suggestion. Unforntunately, ther is a fine line between being able to be used early game for ramp purposes and just being broken. The card you proposed is similar in effect to Unearth , though it being able to hit any permanent for 2 mana (yes, even CMC 2 or less) is super good. That means that in legacy it can hit cards like Young Pyromancer , Snapcaster Mage (to get other spells even at sorcery, like itself for example), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Wasteland , etc. as well as potentially getting another permanent too. It just seems way too powerful. Sure, we could start tweaking the mana costs/effects but I think you would end up with effectively a functional reprint of Sevinne's Reclamation . And look, if that's what you're going for then that's fine. But that's the danger with working under the guise of returning permanents while focusing on lands.

As for the land sepcific recursion effect though, this just seems out of charater (and heavily moving into green's territory). Just because one card was printed, which again did a symmetric effect (almost seems good with Armageddon + Tormod's Crypt ...) does not mean that it's a shoo-in for more cards to be printed like that. Planar Birth was printed inthe same set as Catastrophe and it seems like those cards were designed to play well with each other. As for hitting land drops each turn, I have no issues with this (hell, I even mentioend it before) and to aid in the available "non-good fetch" fetches, you have Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds , Myriad Landscape , Grasslands , Flood Plain , Bant Panorama , Esper Panorama , Naya Panorama , Warped Landscape , Terminal Moraine and Thawing Glaciers . That's a pretty good collection of budget fetch effects that already exist. And between Scaretiller , Sun Titan , Sevinne's Reclamation and Crucible of Worlds (and in conjuction with other ramp) there are already options there.

Again, I will double down on my argument that if you look, these cards already exist and can be made to work together in a deck. Yes, Crucible of Worlds has ~$25 USD price tag (at the time of writing this) however that is not too exorbitant for a strong EDH card.

On Other Colours

I get that each colour has its strengths and weaknesses and that when you put all of them alongside each other there will always be a worst colour. But I don't think that's a bad thing. White is an incredibly powerful colour outside of commander, and as a second colour, white is still super good. But mono-white has to have a weakness. In this case, it's slow. Buat again, that's done for a reason - because white represents balance. White might be slow, but it will do a really good job of slowing you down with it. And again, I get that ther will be a group of players who don't want to play all of the stax cards for fear of getting other poeple's backs up. But what about the players who don't care about that? you've now just armed a bunch of people with ramp and draw with their existing supply of stax. Think of how much worse that will be.

Now onto red (since you touched on it) - yes, WotC have come up with a nice balance for red's card advantage (in that it matches red's ramp style) - momentary bursts of value. Rituals and exile - you use it or you lose it kind of effects, which makes sense (and which you pointed out). But it's all done within the bounds of the colour pie still. But everything about white screams that it's card advantage is making sure your opponents don't have cards.

On Budget

While I believe that commander should be avaialble to anyone, there are some cold, hard facts: Some people can spend more than others, and, not everybody within a playgroup has the same budget.

The cards I listed before were budgetless and in most cases, the best of the best. And I understand that only a small portion of commander players actually own said cards. But there are always alternative cards at all budgets, they just may not be as desirable. But that's where my double standard comment came in, which is "if you want to play a colour that doens't have good ramp, but still want the best ramp then either pay the money to buy the good (read "expensive") stuff or deal with the fact that you can't/won't buy it." I don't think that's an unfair statement, and it's a slippery slope once you start pandering to it.

But again, if ther is a budget discrepency within a playgroup then I also don't think that it is WotC's responsiblity to fix it. This is something that the players have to own and is an entire discussion point in an of itself, so I will leave that there. But I think most players would agree with me on this.

On Other Players

Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it.

And don't get me wrong, I play both casual and competitive lists, I work full time and have funds available to afford nicer cards. A casual list for me sits in the $400-500 range. But before you discount my opinion becasue fo that, hear me out. I have looked at many, many, many lists on tapped out, ranging from <$100 to >$5000 and have learnt a lot over the years. Typically the things I notice is that the kinds of poeple who complain about a lack of XYZ have also employed a lot of bad deck-building practices (no, I'm not implying this on your lists). Really heavy mana curves, little ramp to begin with, high CMC ramp, lack of focused win conditions, all that good stuff. And I'm not saying that the decks are completely unplayable, but a lot of them are really clunky and slow. And I won't begrudge people for building those decks. But if your average CMC is 4.5 and then you're complaining that your deck is slow, that's becasue of the card choices you made. However bad deckbuilding is not WotC's fault.

So compared to those poeple, I will be a bit arrogant and say I undstand balance better than them, yes. But, and more importantly, so does WotC - because they seem to be printing more stax cards for white as sets come out, but not more ramp and card advantage which would fix the non-problem.

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