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Most people are familiar with the classic Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal infinite mana combo, however I have been wondering about running Nivix Guildmage as a backup to this in my Kenrith, the Returned King deck (King me! King me!). The main reason for this is that the deck has a very heavy reliance on Kenrith once it has assembled infinite mana to either draw to a win condition or pump creatures and turn sideways. In fact, every combo based win condition has to go through Kenrith.

This is fine for the most part, as having him as my commander means that I should have access to him most of the time (especially with infinite mana available). however, the thought of including Nivix Guildmage was two fold - the first was that he acts as an infinite mana combo piece with Dramatic Reversal, but also becomes an infinite mana sink to either copy any other spells in hand as well as loot the entire deck (which with infinite mana and Elixir of Immortality can form other win conditions).

The question is, is it worth making a slot for Nivix Guildmage, or are the odds of not having access to Kenrith low enough that it's not needed?

Comet Storm seems like a good upgrade over Fireball. As for creatures, why not use stuff like Myr Battlesphere or Siege-Gang Commander since the token tokens will persist. Depending on the amount of single target buff spells oyu want to run, Zada, Hedron Grinder can also be a good option for more a) mass buffing, and b) super cantrip value.

TypicalTimmy: Klauth has a clause that says you can only use the mana to cast spells.

You can use Neheb, the Eternal which will work with Aggravated Assault but not Hellkite Charger. Same goes for Selvala, Heart of the Wilds unless you delclare her as an attacker first, then go from there. Selvala is still really good in the deck since you have a bunch of decent sized creatures.

ErgoLux: I could support that deck as a good example of fringe competitive. It feels like a a bit of an Edric Lite™ deck, however given that Edric is in the competitive category, I think that fringe competitive is a good call. It's interesting to see the lack of extra turn spells by comparison, but the fact the the deck has access to black allows for a different line.

Hey, just a quick one regarding Mono Black Braids Unban. While I appreciate your enthusiasm on the post, please be aware that quadruple posting like this can have a habit of derailing threads pretty badly.

Ahhh yep, that's a derp on my part. Found the right rule but misread Jegantha. But Femme was pointing to the correct rule:

709.4b The mana cost of a split card is the combined mana costs of its two halves. A split card’s colors and mana value are determined from its combined mana cost. An effect that refers specifically to the symbols in a split card’s mana cost sees the separate symbols rather than the whole mana cost.

Example: Assault//Battery’s mana cost is {3}{R}{G}. It’s a red and green card with a mana value of 5. If you cast Assault, the resulting spell is a red spell with a mana value of 1.

Example: Fire//Ice’s mana cost is {2}{U}{R}. It has the same mana cost as Steam Augury, but an effect such as that of Jegantha, the Wellspring sees that it contains the mana symbol {1} twice.

The rules literally use this exact scenario as an example. So Wear / Tear should be fine, but not Fire / Ice.Sorry for my original misread.

Saw this on the comments feed. As per 709.4 of the MtG Comprehensive Rules:

"In every zone except the stack, the characteristics of a split card are those of its two halves combined. This is a change from previous rules."

So Fire / Ice's converted mana cost is , meaning you can't run Jegantha as your comapnion if you run Fire / Ice.

Huanor: Sigarda can definitely be run in Uril but having the effect as your commander is much stronger. In addition, Sigarda natureally has evasion, meaning that even without drawing into buff effects she has a much higher chance of getting in damage earlier, which is crucial for Voltron.

Similarly, Ojutai has natural evasion, as well as access to plenty of unblockable effects. Additionally, Ojutai decks are generally much more instant/sorcery heavy and so can leverage cards like Runechanter's Pike to do a lot of damage very quickly. And yes, Ojutai needs vigilance to provide true hexproof, however has a full suite of counterspells to lean on, as opposed to the 3 decent ones that Uril does (2 of which are only good against blue and all three of which are bad against warths).

Rafiq, while not having protection built in is by far the fastest to lay down damage. Additionally, he also has counterspell backup to keep himself alive.

Uril may have access to extra combat step effects, but both Ojutai and Rafiq have access to extra turn spells, which are far better.

Huanor: Becuase Uril is not as good as the commanders. Sigarda provides not only hexproof but protection against sacrifice effects, which is Uril's biggest weakness. Ojutai still provides hexproof but also provides card advantage on a stick, as well as having access to blue for counterspells. Sigarda and Ojutai also have a built in form of evasion, which Uril does not. Rafiq offers no protection but naturally swings in for 8 damage a turn, making him a 3 turn clock. He also has access to both ramp (in green) AND countermagic (in blue), making him probably the strongest of the three. Additionally, all of these 3 commanders can use enchantments, however are not lockedinto using enchantments. Uril on the other hand relies on enchantments, meaning that he is much more fragile to board wipes.

ErgoLux: Do you have an Anowon list you could share?

RambIe: But did you know that I know that they know that you knew that I knew? Let me ask you that :P

I absolutely agree with your comment - while I might not agree with the ban, there will be people who have had quite unpleasnat experiences against Golos decks and I can totally undersand why they would be for the ban.

I thought we were being quite civil, though apologies if that came across differently. I definitely don't think of you as a brainwashed mouthbreathing yes man, if that's any consolation.

But I'm happy to bow out of this one too - I'm getting a "let sleeping dogs lie" vibe, so I might hand the discussion over to others.

RambIe: I would believe that a fully tuned golos deck is more than capable of doing what you're describing. I've seen quite a few decks pull of some very impressive plays and getting 5 mana on turn 2 is well within the realsm of possibility. But the kind of deck you're talking about is not what I would call a general representation of casual to mid tier, where the discussion about the banning is based.

When we talk about cEDH, all bets are off. With people dropping turn 2 Thassa's Oracle/Demonic Consultation with Pact of Negation for backup, a full spec Golos is at home and evenly matched. But again, tha banning is not based on that.

For a casual to mid tier (i.e. low to middle pub stomp) deck, designed for a casual to mid tier playgroup to be even semi consistently hitting a turn 2 (or even 3) Golos raises a lot of flags. Specifically around either what your definition of casual/mid tier is or around the clear disparity of players within said playgroup.

golgarigirl: While I can understand that happening and being frustrating, the alternative is that (as has been said even on this forum) poeple will spend money on a potentially expensive card for their deck, only for it to be banned shortly after (or in transit).

And I can understand that people might panic buy a backup commander if theirs is put on the watchlist, however it still gives players time to respond and make a decision about if they want to change over immediately or if they want to risk that a card won't end up being banned.

griffstick: Most people accept that the ban happened and will move on as well. Like this and basically all other bans, there's not really anything that you can do but to move forward.

This does raise some real concerns though around the RC and generic 5C commanders. Does this mean that cards like Kenrith, Najeela or even Esika are now in the RC's sights? That and the lack of transparency makes me very much understand why many people feel the rug has been pulled out from under them. And this has people concerned that it will happen again.

RambIe: Sanctum of Eternity is definitely fun with Golos, but you are still talking about an 8 mana ramp spell. And sure, if you can hit Mana Crypt/Sol Ring to accelerate that then it's gross, but so is basically every commander at that point.

And yes, we can have the discussion about fast mana (though I would say not in this thread) however I don't see any of it getting banned soon since everybody can run it and Sol Ring at least is super accessible.

Jund will generally be better, by simple virtue of the fact that it has access to green which provides ramp. It also has good support for creature tutors, which white lacks. The only caveat to this comment is that Edgar Markov exists as a card.

golgarigirl: They need waaaaaay more transparency around the process.

I'm of the opinion that they should implement the following lists on the official commander website for everybody to plainly see:

1. list of cards which are currently under discussion of getting banned

2. list of cards which are currently under discussion of being unbanned (especially since we have seen every card which gets unbanned skyrocket in price)

3. list of all teh current commanders AND decklists for ALL current RC and CAG members to ensure that there aren't any "I want to run XYZ in my deck" motives.

I think that it would greatly help increase their community engagement and would remove a lot of the unknown factors around bannings. Want ot build around a specific commander but they've been flagged as a potential ban? Well now you're informed and can make a measured assessment about whether or not you want to spend money on the cards.

TypicalTimmy: Neither of those options to cheat Progenitus into play work the way you want them to. You can Sneak Attack it into play, but you can't use single target flicker effects since Progenitus has protection from everything. That means it can't be targeted. Full stop.

Additionally, Progenitus never hits the graveyard. It's not a triggered ability like the Eldrazi titans, it's a replacement ability. So you can't reanimate it either.

Just as a side note - I understand that this is in relation to a deck that you have/had which was commanded by Golos, however please be careful not to derail the thread about the most recent banning/unbanning with a full blown discussion about re-tooling your deck. If you would like to talk about it, I would recommend creating a dedicated thread for it so it doesn't bog this one down.

Caerwyn: Reading the article you linked, it's completely counter intuitive (as you mentioned). The RC talks about a lack of diversity in running Golos as you commander and yet lists a bunch of different builds in the same article.

And even with goodstuff decks, the attitiude that one goodstuff deck looks exactly the same as another completely undermines lower levels of play (and basically any battlecruiser deck).

Bans like this will actually regress creativity, as all that will happen is that everyone will move back to running Child of Alara as their 5C goodstuff commander. Remember those days?

As for the Worldfire unbanning, isn't there somebody in the RC or CAG who has a Jhoira deck? I feel like with these unbannings, the RC/CAG should have a full list of their current decks (or at least commanders) which is live on the official commander website. I am aware that three of the RC have a list of current commanders, but that's not the whole decision making crew. Unbannings like this and Metalworker (I think somebody had a Sharuum deck at the time) feel just a little bit alterior motive-y.

The problem with Veyran, Voice of Duality is that while getting extra triggers is nice, most of the time if you're using effects like Guttersnipe then you're looking to assemble an infinite combo anyway, so additional triggers are much less relevant. Additionally, as smilodex mentioned, voltron is not an overly powerful strategy as you can only K/O one player at a time (short of extra turn spells).

That being said, if you've got a decklist in mind which can showcase her, that's generally the best way to get a commander bumped up in the list, as it provides a lot more context.