Sadly, you need to get to 6 power for Sisay, since Sisay, Weatherlight Captain says 'costs less than' rather than 'equal to or less than.'
No worries, the use of Jegantha as a companion is it lets you get Sisay to 4 power on it's own, which allows the whole combo to occur with no extra pieces. Yes 11 mana is a ton, but 3-3-5 isn't too bad, when it's a 5 color, 0 card combo, you can work with anything in deck. Radha while not bad for the deck, will often be worse than other ramp pieces like Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy, or just normal ramp.
The actual legends in more competitive Sisay lists (according to lists I've seen) are Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, Anafenza, the Foremost, Gaddock Teeg, Tymna the Weaver, Thrasios, Triton Hero, Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy, Teferi, Time Raveler, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Kethis, the Hidden Hand, Dack Fayden, Aminatou, the Fateshifter, The Chain Veil, Umezawa's Jitte, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician/Najeela, the Blade-Blossom (and Samut, Voice of Dissent optionally for this combo).
Optionally (on EDHREC) Helm of the Host, Hammer of Nazahn, Reki, the History of Kamigawa, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Domri, Anarch of Bolas, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain, Saffi Eriksdotter, Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons, Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, Captain Sisay, Brago, King Eternal, Kunoros, Hound of Athreos, Ashiok, Dream Render/Narset, Parter of Veils/Teferi, Master of Time/Linvala, Keeper of Silence (non-Jegantha variations)
Sadly, while Radha seems okay? Tutoring it is really bad, since you could fetch value pieces like Wrenn and Six, or better ramp like Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy, and I doubt you need an extra green if you can cast Sisay and activate her, and she also already needs to have a 1 color legend out. If you are looking to use Radha for pumping Sisay, run more of the optional legends. Idk, I could be wrong but I don't see it being popular, I hope you have the best of luck with it, it seems pretty fun for the deck on terms of a flavor include!
July 3, 2020 midnight
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Omniscience_is_life: It's probably also worth mentioning that when I read 1CMC commander, I for some reason thought you were trying to make hte whole deck 1CMC. That's probably been colouring a bunch of my comments about 1 drops in general :P It's been one of those days.
July 8, 2020 10:06 a.m.
All good. As I said, I think that the reason Rhys is good compared to all the others is that he doesn't suffer from what all of the others do which is just trying to get to 100 cards without putting in junk just to get there. And even with Rhys, I found when putting the list together that there was a danger that the deck would start to just try and do random stuff purely because I was trying to hit the 100 card count. But Rhys suffers the least from this. And the fact that you have access to both hte mana dorks in green but also the removal suite in white makes the deck surprisingly playable.
The other thing is that white/green as a colour combination excels at +1/+1 counters and anthem effects. This is super important for a 1 CMC deck since outside of hydras, you're generally going to be stuck flooding the board with weenies, which might make you strong for the first few turns but you ultimately suffer from as they don't scale well with turns.
July 8, 2020 1:35 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life: Good is subjective. I mean any of them can build a list, but other than Oviya you're going to struggle with said list. And the only reason Oviya does ok is thanks to jamming in a crapload of mana dorks. Most of the other lists will hit the "chaff to pad this out to 100 cards" pretty quickly.
July 8, 2020 12:04 a.m.
Commandtowercast: I think you mean 1.25. But I wouldn't read too much into the exact number. I would most likely assume that for Vial smasher specifically, the way he was given the value was by looking at a Thrasios and Vial Smasher list and determining where that list fell, which would be seen as a tier 1.5 list. But since Thrasios and Tymna was considered tier 1, that would mean the reason for the list being held back was due to Vial Smasher.
At the end of the day, the differences between a tier 1 list and tier 1.5 list are marginal and can be subjective based on individual lists and individual metas. It's all a bit murky.
July 7, 2020 9:37 p.m.
Rhys the Redeemed will give you the most flexibility since A) you have access to two colours, B) can run an elf theme and C) provides the flexibility to not just have to run dead one drops just because they are one drops.
I have actually put together a 1 CMC Rhys deck last year:
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 1 | 96 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
which demonstrates why Rhys is best suited to the task.
July 7, 2020 9:26 p.m.
I mean, white is typically seen as the colour for order and balance and red is combat/fighty. And since most comic books are based around around the hero, it would make sense that there was an aspect of boros in them. But I think that you're making a bit of a generalisation here, there are a hell of a lot of characters that don't fit into the boros mantra.
July 6, 2020 8:18 a.m.
That's fair enough on the Sisay combo. I looked at the line which I thought had worked but hadn't given a huge amount of thought to it. While I'm not a big fan of companion lists, I can understand why the list wants to use Jegantha in a compaion role here.
Radha, Heir to Keld is still a mana dork. While Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy does accelerate your other dorks, he himself doesn't do anything. But I would personally run both. you are correct about the feels bad using Sisay to fetch Radha though. Personally I like Blackblade Reforged as the first Sisay fetch - it should very quickly get her to 6.
All in all, it seems interesing enough, but it's not a deck I would try to build any time soon. If I were to build a 5C Sisay list, I would build it off my old hypothetical list whose sole purpose was to take control of another player's turn and then exile their commander to be a dick. But there are a lot of other decks bouncing around in my brain before I build that one.
July 5, 2020 8:29 p.m.
DarkMagician: I'm not implying that all cards that aren't tournament legal are proxies. But all proxies are not tournament legal by default (yes there are some tournaments that allow that by it is a deviation in rules), and here I am using "proxy" to not to refer to a replacement created by a judge by instead the commonly used meaning (as per the thread).
At the end of the day, all cards in any deck and in any format should be by default, tournament legal. If we're talking about kitchen table, then everything goes out the window. But the standard for MtG should be what's allowed in tournament play, as this is the common benchmark. WotC may not ban them in casual play, but the rules become murky in casual play as it comes down to a social contract between players.
So my point is that while gold bordered cards are not proxies, they are not allowed in tournament play as they do not meet a bunch of the criteria.
As for the argument that the original epression in MtG was that a "proxy" was a fill in card provided by a judge to replace a damaged card, yes, this is one definiton of the word. However, as we have seen a growth in digital manipulations of cards (via photoshop or other pieces of software) and we have seen people create cards that are not just a modification of the original one (i.e. extended the artwork), the term "proxy" has grown and evolved.
July 4, 2020 5:21 a.m.
I guess it comes down to what the definiton of a proxy is. Gold bordered cards were officially printed by WotC as purchasable product. Because they're from WotC does that make them not proxies? But they're not tournament legal. Does that make them proxies?
Ultimately it depends on your definition of proxies, however I would say that they fit into a third category. Not proxies (printed by WotC) but not tournament legal either. And by default, any format legal deck must be all tournament legal cards (and the gold bordered cards have a different back). So again, not proxies, but you should ask permission if you're using them.
July 2, 2020 11:25 p.m.
Have you considered Sundial of the Infinite? Activate it in response to the sac ability going on the stack at the end of each thrun so you can keep your dudes.
July 2, 2020 10:38 p.m.
SynergyBuild: While you can't take advantage of Jegantha as a companion, you can still run it in the 99. While this adds a bit of complexity in that you have you fetch Jegantha, you also gain the bonus that you can EoT Jegantha rather than having to first pay to put it into hand and then hard cast it.
And if you're running Sisay as your commander, you hsould probably be running Radha, Heir to Keld in the list (which will be one of your first goto cards) and almost gets sisay to 5 power by herself.
July 2, 2020 9:21 p.m.
That all makes a lot of sense. He seems to fill quite alot of functionality for the list, which is nice for a single card to do.
Also, have you thought about adding Deflecting Swat in place of/in addtion to REB/blast?
July 2, 2020 9:13 p.m.
I mean, if you're concerned about the fragility of using Najeela to combo off, you could always go:
Sisay gets Samut, Voice of Dissent, spending W to untap Jegantha
Resto angel flickers Jegantha
Sisay gets Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to make infinite angels with haste
The line does require a non-legendary, however you can shortcut it if you have resto in hand already (since you don't need to get Vannifar).
It's worth mentioning htat this line does need you run Jegantha as one of the 99, rather than as a companion. However thanks to the comapion rules change, I don't think this is an issue as otherwise you would be paying 8 mana for him anyway (across the 3 to hand and then casting cost).
July 1, 2020 9:15 p.m. Edited.
I really like Selvala, Explorer Returned in green/white/X decks (not just as the commander). She's just a good all-rounder. Good blocking potetial, card draw (albeit for everyone) and mana ramp, what's not to love.
June 29, 2020 1:41 a.m.
Is this for a particualr format? Different cards will be better for different formats and this will also dictate the number of Isochron Scepters you have in your deck.
June 28, 2020 10:54 p.m.
So the key part of the question here is "on resolution of the ability, is there an opportunity to see the exiled cards before picking a colour?" The short answer is "no".
The long answer is that the resolution has multiple steps and it must be followed as described on the card:
first you choose a colour
then the targetted opponent exiles the top X cards of their library
then, for each card exiled this way which is of the chosen colour, create a 1/1 blue/black faerie rogue with flying
While the card doesn't say "then", it should be implied here. I would assume that he only reason they left this off the card was due to the length of text in the ability (you can see how close to the edge of the card it already gets).
June 28, 2020 7:34 p.m.
You could also go with Painter's Servant + Phyrexian Altar + Training Grounds. All three are decent outside of the combo, but together you get 2 faeries for the cost of 1 coloured mana (either blue or black) which you can then generate from the Altar by sacing one of the faeries.
June 27, 2020 11:42 p.m.
"the fragility of auras absolutely proves hexproof is necessary"
This only matters if you're trying to force auras. If you're primarily focusing on equipment, then it's not an issue.
"which in most cases will cost you about double the mana"
That totally depends on which equipment you're looking to run. The vast majority of good equipment top out at a cost of 3 and most of them then have a cheap equip cost in addition. Plus there are all sorts of "free" equip effects which you would be running in an equipment heavy deck.
"equips giving hexproof is nice, but you have to draw them"
That's what tutors are for - white gives the best equipment tutors in the game and blue can fetch artifacts.
"rafiq actually costs MORE when you inevitably have to cast him a second time"
This is only true if Rafiq dies and Uril doesn't. There are plenty of boardwipes which can easily do away with Uril. And unlike blue who can actually counter a bunch of removal, Uril gets left in the cold.
"having blue does NOT mean rafiq can keep tempo better than uril. not at all."
That's just, like, your opinion man :P Seriously though, you do need to provide something to back up this statement, otherwise it is just your opinion on it, so you can't tout it as fact.
"commander has more removal than modern. sure it's a singleton format, but you also have multiple opponents."
Yes, but that removal is split across 4 players, each focusing on a myriad of different threats and not just aimed at you. At the end of the day, why would I waste removal on a voltron commander if it's attacking one of my opponents? In modern, the amount of removal is still high, however it is a lot more targetted since it's a 1v1 format. And while not every deck runs removal, it's only the fast ones that do that. Most midrange decks will out-removal their commander counterparts, especially if you scale the card count to 100.
"having constant access to a commander doesn't actually change the plan either, it simply ensures you don't have to rely on luck to get that hexproof creature."
It very much does change the build of the deck. Knowing that you have 100% access to your commander (hexproof or not) will drastically change what cards the deck needs to run - you don't need to run threats (in the form of creatures), you can instead run a bunch of buff effects and protection effects in their place. Bogles has to draw one of the creatures and then start enchanting from there. Voltron does not have this problem. Bogles MUST get one of the one CMC creatures down turn 1, because otherwise the deck will start to stuggle due to all of the hand hate and counterspells. Volton doesn't have this problem. Sure, your commander could get killed or countered but you don't lose access to it. In Bogles, you might get a single creature and some buff effects in your opening hand. But if your creature gets turn 1 Thoughtseize'd then you're at the mercy of your deck until you can draw another one.
"the 2 extra power per enchantment goes a long way toward racking up commander damage that rafiq simply cannot match."
This assumption implies that you're using external buff effects on Uril. So sure, an aura covered Uril will do more damage than a Rafig by himself, however I already pointed out that becuase Rafiq doesn't care about what you use on him, a Sigarda's Aid + Colossus Hammer with Rafiq (which costs a total of 2 mana) turns him into lethal damage on the board. And even commanders like Balan, Wandering Knight can take advantage of this - hell, you only need the hammer in Balan's case. Chuck in an O-Naginata and you're golden.
"rafiq also does not "innately" have double strike. it can "gain" double strike IF it attacks alone, but that is not the same as having it innately."
I'll happily concede this one. Innately was the wrong choice of words. However The point that Rafiq can get double-strike without requiring an external source is not something to be overlooked.
"oh and if you look up commander voltron on the mtg wiki, uril tops the list. rafiq is not on the list at all. neither is godo."
If you're going to refer to some list, you should probably link it: MTG Wiki Voltron List.
The list you referenced is in no way ranked, it's merely a cross section of "popular" voltron commanders. And Uril doesn't top the list, he's just first on it. this list also has Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Brisela, Voice of Nightmares on it. It's also completely community editable. I wouldn't be trying to use that list as any kind of discussion point.
At the end of the day, I don't think we are going to come to an agreement on this and while I think this conversation has provided some good points and counterpoints with regards to voltron in general, I think that if it keeps going much longer it will completely derail the original topic, which was about Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge as a voltron commander. I'm not fussed if you want to respond to my comments here (I don't want this to seem like I'm trying to get the last word in and then putting my foot down) however I'm not super keen about discussing this ad infinitum, especially since neither of us have changed our opinions.
Viera: I hope this has provided a bit more insight into some different opinions around voltron and what differnet people's priorities are when it comes to building a deck. Hopefully there is some good, more general knowledge that you can distill from it.
June 27, 2020 9:28 p.m.
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