Commune with Nature

Commune with Nature

Sorcery

Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a creature card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

Latest Decks as Commander

Commune with Nature Discussion

Tzefick on Sword of Life and Limb

9 months ago

I find it a bit amusing how not two months ago there was posted a thread specifically dedicated to brew card ideas for the remaining 3 Swords of X and Y and then this shows up.

DemonDragonJ I would agree that having three abilities would break the pattern.

Personally I think the life gain is already covered by Sword of Light and Shadow and Sword of War and Peace. One static, one dynamic.

There is already token generation with Sword of Body and Mind.

Personally I think the Sword should do something a bit different than that. Please keep in mind that the Swords have generally been designed to be beneficial to most colors and multiple strategies - hence why a Sword like Sword of Body and Mind is generally considered the worst/most niche, closely followed by Sword of War and Peace. The latter because it doesn't affect the board and lifegain is... only relevant in certain situations. If you make a token generator + Populate effect, it works by itself but is generally not useful for many decks.

Take a Sword like Sword of Truth and Justice. It plays well by itself by enabling its own scaling when you have multiple creatures. However you can also utilize the Proliferate on poison counters, -1/-1 counters, planeswalker loyalty counters. It has built-in support for multiple strategies.

A card like Sword of Sinew and Steel is more niche, but it has some very powerful removal effects to compensate. In addition the protections are very on-point in protecting against most targeted removal and all of red's board wipe repertoire.

Tokens for the sake of tokens is often not that impressive. That's why I would suggest to aim for something else than basic token generation.

If you are hellbent on the token generation I would consider granting a different incentive:


Alternative A Show


Alternative B Show


If we're being honest, most of the swords don't see play and those that do are mostly Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of Fire and Ice. I've seen a fair bit of Sword of Truth and Justice as well. I think hitting around that spot would be ideal.



If we aim for something else than basic token generation, we could aim for some tech options.

Delve deeper Show

tumamaenmondongo on

10 months ago

There's a fringe combo archetype call One-Land Spy. It basically plays a single forest, fetchable with Land Grant, a bunch of ways to ramp into Balustrade Spy or Destroy the Evidence to get your whole deck into the graveyard at once. From there, there are plenty of ways to win, typically casting a Haunting Misery for 20 something, retrieving it from the graveyard off Anarchist, casting it by flasbacking Morgue Theft, with mana generated from Songs of the Damned and rituals.

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/1-land-spy-hard-mode/ That one is a more elaborate version IMO, which wins through looping songs of the damned, to pay for a second loop which could be either Gray Merchant of Asphodel to drain life, or Balustrade Spy to mill your opponent.

The only thing you should be changing from that version is Gitaxian Probe which isn't pauper legal anymore. Replacing those, players are using cantrips like Manamorphose or cycling creatures, mana fixers like Abundant Growth, Springleaf Drum or mana dorks, rituals like Culling the Weak, or even stuff like Commune with Nature to dig for spy.

ilovemydoghisnameistuna on Nice board you have there, it would be a shame...

11 months ago

It depends on whether you want a lot of cards or to get deep into the deck; I was suggesting Commune with Nature because it digs specifically for your Obliterator, whereas Whisper is just straight card advantage.

keizerbuns on Nice board you have there, it would be a shame...

11 months ago

ilovemydoghisnameistuna maybe I could try out a few Commune with Natures in place of the Painful Truths and see if that works better. And having something like Bond of Revival might not be too bad to have in my sideboard. Thanks for the suggestions!

ilovemydoghisnameistuna on Nice board you have there, it would be a shame...

11 months ago

I might add some card velocity of some kind to make sure you get to the Obliterator, maybe stuff like Commune with Nature or Adventurous Impulse? You might not need it though considering Domri Rade's +1 and Fauna Shaman ... just an idea.

Tzefick on How would you give white …

1 year ago

TL;DR: The pre-text is LONG. Sorry about that, but there's a lot to unfold about the subject. If you just want to skip down to the suggestions I brainstormed, go below the first set of 3 lines.

It is no secret that the Commander community for a long time has regarded white as one of the weaker colors in Commander, especially as a monocolor. Many have pointed their fingers at how well the color achieves mana ramp and card draw/advantage.

White actually do have a small slew of card advantage and ramp cards or cards that in essence cheats the requirement for mana.

White has raw card draw in Mentor of the Meek and Dawn of Hope, although hidden behind a requirement in form of a trigger. Both are triggers that are fairly easy to achieve but not without costs. Not to forget Sram, Senior Edificer (and Puresteel Paladin) - but again behind a trigger requiring a very specific type of deck building. White has additional card advantage through regaining access to cards once lost, like through a Sun Titan getting back small permanents, or Nomad Mythmaker, Order of Whiteclay, or Bishop of Rebirth.

White has ramp in form of Knight of the White Orchid and Kor Cartographer and pseudo card advantage in good ol' Land Tax. The knight has a requirement that you need to be behind to actually ramp, and that aspect goes again in many of white's attempts to imitate ramp and card draw. White can only catch up, they cannot get ahead. These aspects are most recently seen through Verge Rangers (pseudo card advantage - not ramp, you don't get access to more lands than 1 per turn) and through Cartographer's Hawk. There's also Oath of Lieges but that is a symmetrical effect and may as well just benefit some of your opponents as much as it does you.

White can cheat the requirement for mana in a few instances, like casting Resurrection on a higher costing creature, an aspect they share with black and often a favorite when the two are paired. Where they differ is that black usually does it for less mana at another resource expense, and that black has different means to get those creatures out into your graveyard to set it all up. White has none of these opportunities/advantages.

This thread mainly aims to discuss white getting card draw/advantage in the Commander format and how they would achieve it to fit their color identity, but we can talk about the Commander format in general as well. To clarify, the topic is aimed at discussing how white could get card draw/advantage and not really whether or not they should - do feel free to voice your opinion for or against but please keep it limited and instead focus on how card draw could fit into white's color identity. It doesn't necessarily have to be from a place within the current color identity, but could be exploring new design space that hasn't been seen before.


Let's examine how other colors achieve card advantage:

Blue is super easy and the main color that achieves it, they usually do it straight as an investment for the specific purpose of gaining more resources; Concentrate. Blue also has access to looting options where they draw cards and discard cards (or the other way around); Merfolk Looter / Tolarian Winds. Blue also has the largest collection of cards with Flashback, so even once Blue uses a resource from their hand, they can do it again from their graveyard; Deep Analysis - although these cards are usually more costly than their non-flashback peers.

Black is also relatively easy as they imitate blue's investment but at an additional cost; Night's Whisper. As previously stated black can also access their graveyard like white and reuse mainly creatures that have died or otherwise put into the graveyard (from say an Entomb) by using Animate Dead or Zombify. Black's ability even goes beyond their own graveyard and dip into their opponent's graveyard. Black also have some aspect of self-discarding, usually as a symmetrical effect that aims at harming their opponents while still being able to access the cards they lost themselves; like Cunning Lethemancer.

Red is relatively new on this block, as they have for a long while had many of the same issues as white. Red did however have cards that looted (drawing and discarding cards) in the concept of picking up the strongest of a larger selection of cards - this is also called card filtering as you don't get an advantage in resources, only the selection. However red also has a selection of cards with flashback or activated or triggered abilities from the graveyard. With the introduction of impulse draw - so named from Act on Impulse, where red exiles a number of cards from the top of their library for the ability to play those for a limited time. Thus red has achieved temporary card draw.

Green is one of the richest colors in the color pie at the moment, having access to a lot of control cards, protective measures, card advantage, ramp and swingy plays. It is no wonder to me how green is one of the stronger colors in Commander. Green has access to some very strong card advantage cards that fits right into the slow format of Commander. Rishkar's Expertise is a favorite as it combines the Commander format's slow pace, green's affinity for big creatures, and a powerful swing in resources, all in one card. Another is the ability to draw from creatures being cast or entering the battlefield. Outside the slow Commander format, you don't really see these types of cards, but within the format they are strong and valuable. Green also has access to the most flexible way to reuse cards from the graveyard through Eternal Witness, Greenwarden of Murasa, Road of Return - road and Myth Unbound are even commander specific benefits that makes casting your commander cheaper, within the color with the most access to mana acceleration. So the color that needs it the least has ways to reduce their mana demand on casting their commander. I would argue this aspect should have been placed within white and/or blue more than in green. Black is getting in on it with Netherborn Altar, so in the future we might see the other colors circumventing the commander tax in some fashion.

White has very few card draw cards (the best of which are mentioned above) and all are locked behind some kind of condition that is not insignificant, compared to something like Beast Whisperer.


It would seem white lacks behind quite a bit in this aspect. When a color cannot do something itself or not very well, they usually seek toward artifacts to fix their issues. Here you can utilize Mind's Eye or Loreseeker's Stone or Arcane Encyclopedia or Book of Rass or Endless Atlas or Skullclamp or Tome of Legends to name a handful of the better variants. What most of these have in common is that they are expense to cast or maintain or require some specific deck building choices to function.

If the general consensus of Commander players are to be taken into account along with the perceived strength of each color, it would seem these artifacts are not enough to help white overcome its lack of card draw. Furthermore white's other strengths doesn't seem to have enough impact to offset this lack.

The general argument I have seen against providing white with card advantage is; it breaks the color pie, white can utilize artifacts to fix their weaknesses to some extend, white's strengths comes from mass land destruction, taxing (Thalia, Guardian of Thraben) and hatebears (Aven Mindcensor). Again I don't really want this thread to be overshadowed about arguing for/against White getting card draw into their color identity, let's just assume white eventually will get card draw - how would that look like?

Brief discussion on the counter arguments Show

I really like the way WotC incorporated card draw into red, as impulse draw feels red but it is card draw and it helps red smooth out some edges it may have in especially multiplayer formats, such as Commander.

So, if we assume white is eventually going to get card draw, how would it look like? Here's a couple of ideas for concepts on how to incorporate a card draw mechanic with white flavor.




Taxing

Good ol' taxing. We already have Smothering Tithe, so something similar to Rhystic Study could be a possibility. It could be an aura you put on a land, so whenever it is tapped that opponent pays mana or grants you card draw. It doesn't necessarily have to be mana that is taxed, it could also just be the action/trigger itself that is the tax.

A taxing example Show



Warring / "spoils of war"

White is the most militarized color that deals in organized military strategy, being the main color for the creature types Soldier and Knight. White is often associated with combat and attacking as well. Perhaps it should be used to its advantage and provide some means to acquire card draw - figure it a substitute for roleplay wise gaining lands / trade routes / power / intelligence.

Example of war "spoils" Show



Trading

I actually really like the idea of this one, although it may be harder to properly accomplish.

White has before had trades happening like Armistice and Bargain. There's also the advocates and Benevolent Offering but they are not unique to white and is a set mechanic. It's been a while since this was part of white's color pie, but it could be again.

Example on trading Show

The flavor is there, as white is a color of community and peace, so trading seems like a natural byproduct. I really like the political aspect from this mechanic when considering multiplayer formats.



Divination

An alternative to direct card draw; you choose a card type (instant, sorcery, creature, land, artifact, enchantment, planeswalker) and then look at top X cards of your library, you may reveal a card of the chosen type and put it into hand, put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

This reflects the Commune with Nature (which is a green card I know) but it seems to fit white's color pie as the more religious color, to ask the gods/divine/faith for a boon and maybe it is answered, maybe not. Obviously you can deck tech to increase your chances but the idea is a card draw that is not guaranteed. Under the right circumstances it can be stronger than a card draw as it may filter.

Example on Divination Show



Honor the ancestors

I really wanted to create some kind of mechanic that allowed white to dump cards into their graveyard, to synergize with white's inherent ability to generate card advantage through recurring permanents, especially low CMC permanents. As it stands white needs to cast those smaller permanents and have them put into the graveyard from the battlefield - thus making these recurring effects a lot more narrow than their black and even green brethren, who can more easily set up these beneficial plays. But it doesn't seem very much like a white thing to self-mill, ala Surveil, nor do they discard. For white to have this particular synergy you would have to make them gain it without much prior precedent.

One thing that seemed sort of within the flavor of white would be to honor the ancestors, remember the history, keep to the traditions. I think you could work that flavor into some kind of mechanic that could work to white's advantage.

Examples on Honoring the Ancestors Show




Anyway, that's just what I brainstormed for. Like I said before I really liked the flavor on red's card draw and I want white to get something similar. Do you like any of my suggestions or think you can refine them? How would you give white card draw that is flavorful?

GoblinElectromancer on Horrors in the Ice

1 year ago

I would cut the Adventurous Impulses for Commune with Nature because even though Commune with Nature can't find land it looks at the top five cards of your library. If it's not too much play some Inquisition of Kozilek for discard effects instead of Thought Erasure.

Good Luck!

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