|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Common|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Common|
|Dragon's Maze (DGM)||Common|
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Land — Gate
Gruul Guildgate enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add or to your mana pool.
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Gruul Guildgate Discussion
4 months ago
6 months ago
The reference to 616.1 in the quoted rule is very important to this interaction. There are certain types of replacement effects that need to be applied in a specific order to determine how something enters the battlefield. The order is:
A) Self-replacement effects
B) Effects that modify under whose control a permanent would enter the battlefield
C) Copy effects (in this example, Vesuva's own ability)
D) Everything else
After applying Vesuva's copy effect, you have either a Forest entering tapped or a Gruul Guildgate entering tapped. They're not entering tapped because of any of their own abilities or other replacement effects, but due to the results of the copy effect we had to apply in step C above. Nothing that Blood Moon or Blood Sun does will alter that.
The Gatherer ruling quoted by pskinn01 is essentially for any possible land other than Vesuva. Gatherer rulings are roughly on par with reminder text, in that they explain how the card works the vast majority of the time but there could be exceptions hiding in weird corner cases. Vesuva is the only card of its kind, and cards like that lend themselves very well to corner cases.
6 months ago
Neotrup doesn't the layer system make Vesuva's layer that makes it a basic apply before Blood Moon's layer than removes the ability? Both are dependent on the other (Vesuva makes itself a basic, granting immunity to Blood Moon, Blood Moon removes Vesuva's ability, so two way dependency), and both apply simultaneously as the land enters the battlefield. I thought in cases like this we just apply layer 1 (copy effects) before the other layers
7 months ago
614.12 "...check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it's on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent."
the "replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield" part is very important, as Vesuva's copy effect is one of the types of replacement effects that qualify for the exception. We have to apply the results of the copy effect first before taking other things into account.
In Scenario 1 with Blood Moon, Vesuva will still enter tapped if you apply the copy effect, as that's part of what its copy effect does. If you copy Forest then it will be a Forest. If you copy Gruul Guildgate then it will only have the Mountain subtype, can tap for , and won't have the other abilities from the Gate. If you copy nothing then it will enter untapped, have the Mountain subtype, can tap for , and won't have its printed ability.
In Scenario 2 with Blood Sun, the Sun won't really do much. If you copy either Forest or Guildgate, Vesuva will still enter tapped from its own copy effect. Sun will remove the "etb tapped" ability if you copy the Guildgate, but I doubt that will ever matter. If you copy nothing then Vesuva will enter untapped and have no abilities.
The results of Scenario 3 with both Moon and Sun are the same as Scenario 1.
7 months ago
Scenario 2: Same questions as scenario 1, but Blood Sun instead of Blood Moon
Scenario 3: Scenario 1, but I control both the Sun and the Moon
10 months ago
Breeding Pool, Steam Vents, Stomping grounds, Cinder Glade, Game Trail, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, Frontier Bivouac, Temple of Abandon, Temple of Epiphany, Temple of Mystery, Gruul Turf, Izzet Boilerworks, Simic Growth Chamber, Hinterland Harbor, Rootbound Crag, Kazandu Refuge, Rugged Highlands, Swiftwater Cliffs, Thornwood Falls, Shivan Reef, Yavimaya Coast, Gruul Guildgate, Highland Lake, Izzet Guildgate, Shivan Oasis, Simic Guildgate, Timber Gorge, Woodland Stream, Highland Weald, Arcane Lighthouse, Homeward Path, Kessig Wolf Run, Rogue's Passage, Skarrg, the Rage Pits, Command Tower, Forbidden Orchard, Path of Ancestry, Lumbering Falls, Wandering Fumarole, Savage Ventmaw, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, Somberwald Sage, Xenagos, the Reveler
10 months ago
MagicalHacker: Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord fits the bill alright. But as mentioned, OP already had a golgari deck, So I am making the assumption that they should still have the cards available (please let me know if that's not the case). The addition of a few red/X lands (see Savage Lands, Gruul Guildgate and friends, Transguild Promenade, Rupture Spire) as well as staples like Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds would be more than sufficient for splashing red, givin gaccess to Prossh, Skyraider of Kher who is $2 from star city games.
Prossh will provide the deck with good token production which is much more resilient to graveyard hosing than a monoblack deck which relies on recursion eninges. The addition of green also gives access to ramp cards such as Rampant Growth, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Explosive Vegetation, etc which will drastically increase the speed of the deck compared to the heavy reliance on mana rocks that mono black will need (also helps with colour fixing).
Red will also give access to cheap wheel effects such as Reforge the Soul ($3 from SCG), Chandra, Flamecaller ($4 from SCG), Dragon Mage ($1 from SCG) which will drastically help increase the deck's output, not to mention cards like Fecundity and even just getting additional value off Skullclamp as the tokens produced have 1 toughness ompared to the typical 2 toughness that you'd see in a monoblack deck (since you're most likely going to be making zombies). Plus spells like Shamanic Revelation will draw you a crap load of cards (50c on SCG).
For low budget decks, having access to green makes them much better overall compared to any other colour. It has a good range of effects and havin access to land ramp is vital. And head to head, I would put my money on a Prossh deck compared to a Anowon deck of the same cost any day. It's more explosive and Prossh himself provides the deck with a self contained win condition.
10 months ago
First of all, you should delete Highland Weald and Gruul Guildgate. They aren't fixing your mana enough (especially in a 2 color deck) to warrant being as slow as they are. Secondly, you should take a look at how much mana ramp you have vs. the # of lands vs. your average CMC. You need to include more lands and ramp (like Rampant Growth, Cultivate, and/or Explosive Vegetation) to get your biggies out sooner. Additionally, you'll want mana rocks like Darksteel Ingot, Sol Ring, and Gruul Signet to serve as quick mana too. You can swap out some lands/rocks/ramp for mana creatures, but be very careful when doing so, as a mana creature is never worth as much (in terms of reliable mana sources) as a land or rock due to three things: their mana cost, summoning sickness, and potential to be removed.
If you haven't tried it yet, go to edhrec.com and search your commander to find good cards that are commonly included in decks with your commander.