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|Oath of the Gatewatch (OGW)||Rare|
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Sea Gate Wreckage
: Add to your mana pool. ( represents colourless mana.)
, : Draw a card. Activate this ability only if you have no cards in hand.
Sea Gate Wreckage Discussion
1 month ago
Sorry for the late response. I was caught up with finals at University and haven't had the time to play much magic or keep up with the game much at all.
The deck has gone through quite a few iterations, several of which were due to meta calls and what hate pieces were best at the time. Winter Orb effects were absurdly good in my meta at the time, hence the inclusion of Candelabra of Tawnos but I think that you are right in it being unnecessary for most metas. Helm of Awakening is also a relic of the old build that still had occasional use but again, I think you are right in cutting it. Krark-Clan Ironworks is a difficult one for me to justify cutting as it makes Spine of Ish Sah far worse without combo potential. I guess that dropping both would give a slot for the new Ugin and Karn without even messing with the mana curve so I will likely try that and see if I end up missing the old cards.
As for going down even more Wastes , that is a meta call but I personally feel like 5 is the right amount. Solemn Simulacrum and Burnished Hart get worse with less basics and when I originally ran 4 Wastes , I had more than one situation where I ran out in deck making the aforementioned cards nearly useless. Also, given how commonplace it is to see Assassin's Trophy nowadays, and given that everything this deck does is good at terrifying people into using all of their removal on you, I don't think I would go down any. Honestly, if I can find space for it, I think I would go up one more Wastes as all of the 4 color partner decks make Blood Moon and Back to Basics effects far better and far more common. Blood Moon is almost always just a mild inconvenience but Back to Basics can be game ending if you don't have enough artifact mana out (and was another consideration for why I ran Candelabra of Tawnos ).
Blast Zone is definitely better than Sea Gate Wreckage in most scenarios so I will swap that out. Zhalfirin Void is fine but I'm not sure what I would cut for it. If nothing else, I can add it to the budget options list.
Ugin, the Ineffable will probably find his way into the list (especially because of the synergy he has with Ashnod's Altar when he doesn't have to be used to break stuff) but I am far more interested in Karn, the Great Creator . Even if his minus 2 is basically useless excluding niche situations such as getting back your exiled stuff, his static ability is more than enough to justify his inclusion. (also, his plus kills Mana Crypt s and Mox Diamond s/ Mox Opal )s/etc. I might even experiment with the hard lock he has with Mycosynth Lattice .
As for Tormod's Crypt and Haunted Cloak , I will likely end up cutting Haunted Cloak due to the deck being less focused on the combat win than it was originally when I added it and wrote the primer. I am not sure about just swapping Tormod's Crypt for Grafdigger's Cage but I will think about it. Grafdigger's Cage is better at stopping Protean Hulk shenanigans (and a lot of other similar win-conditions) as well as stopping Yisan, the Wanderer Bard and Captain Sisay decks, both of which are already bad matchups. Tormod's Crypt is better against storm decks and anything that relies on Timetwister loops as well as just guaranteeing that certain problematic cards are removed instead of temporarily shut down. I might just end up running both if I can find space. I'll experiment with what I can and if I get the chance to play some games, I'll add my experiences with the new cards. Expect an update some time in the next week or so to the primer.
And thank you for all of the advice. I fell a bit behind on the primer due to college so if you have any other advice for potential cards or things to cut, I would appreciate it. I really haven't gotten to play much magic since the start of the new year and I am sure that the meta has changed quite a bit.
2 months ago
Hi Decrepit_Angel, I just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed the amount of work you've put into making this deck and I've had a ton of fun with it for the past year now. I wanted to type out some observations and ask you some questions if you're still around to read them lol:
1: The three cards I've found to be underperforming the most are Krark-Clan Ironworks , Candelabra of Tawnos , and Helm of Awakening (in order of decreasing effectiveness). I wanted to know about your thoughts and experiences regarding them.
Krark-Clan Ironworks I've basically never had a use for aside from some niche infinite combos, I never found a situation where it would be advantageous to sacrifice some artifacts to cast Kozilek nor was I ever tutoring for it. I wouldn't cut it yet, but I'm not terribly enthusiastic about it.
Candelabra of Tawnos was 99% of the time a dead card, never used it in infinite combos nor did I really ramp with it. There was never a situation where I only had one land untapped while wanting access to multiple utility lands at once. The best use I found for candelabra was in tandem with Winter Orb , but there are so many other ways to sidestep Winter Orb's drawback that it's not terribly important to me. The card has been dead in such a majority of cases that I've cut it in a few iterations and never looked back.
I've never found a use for Helm of Awakening, even a niche use. It's always the first card I chuck away with Azor's Gateway Flip, it's always the first card I throw away with Geier Reach Sanitarium , it's never once helped me when I had it in hand. Not useful while comboing with Paradox Engine , and there's never a good turn to play it otherwise because the drawback is antithetical to the stax options this deck employs. It's only a mana closer to Kozilek, and the drawback loses so many games. It never feels like there's a good turn to play it, and the times I played it just to try it, I promptly lost after.
Aside from those three, I've also wondered about Haunted Cloak and Tormod's Crypt . Haunted Cloak is difficult to fit into the curve, considering the initial 3 mana cost and the 1 to equip with after. Combined with the fact that it doesn't even protect the Kozilek, and I haven't found too many uses for it. Tormod's Crypt also feels situational, though I like its place as a graveyard hate. I wonder if it could be replaced by Grafdigger's Cage or some other card, some with more utility or something that replaces itself.
I've also been trying out lands like Zhalfirin Void and Blast Zone , currently shaving a Wastes and Sea Gate Wreckage (the latter I've literally never used its ability once). 4 wastes still feels very good to play with.
2: Are there any new options you might test out? I've been very impressed with Ugin, the Ineffable , all three abilities are relevant and the card provides much needed removal against the horrors of Stony Silence and the likes. I've also been playing with Staff of Nin lately, the card draw engine has been nice and the ping provides a much faster way to close the game with an infinite combo. Without the ping, I've had to resort to more convoluted means to close the game. Not necessarily an objective power level argument, but it saves a lot of headaches at the table.
I appreciate all the work you've put into the deck, and I hope you'll continue working on it in the future!
2 months ago
3 months ago
I appreciate that he's a reasonable mana sink; but one has to resolve bomberman, wait for an entire turn pass, then it can win. For this reason I believe that he's ineffective.
Whereas Teysa, Orzhov Scion features an interaction package, replaces herself, and feeds razaketh like a proper champ, turning most bodies into 2 bodies. You can even just tutor for Darkest Hour off of the first raza' activation and then you have unbounded raza' fodder.
Personally (though it only sees fringe-play) I like Sanctum Prelate as a hatebear. If you know a card that is likely to stop you from winning, it's very easy to name it's mana cost and have it remain as a continuous hatebear.
Your lands could use some work too; cutting Vault of the Archangel (if you have 5 mana to spare then I feel like something's going wrong) for a card like Lake of the Dead , Strip Mine , Wasteland . Depending on how low your hand gets, some lands which draw are viable too like Sea Gate Wreckage .
You currently have 7 cards that win from LRW (not including coinsmith). That seems like a lot for a deck with access to the best tutors; I'd recommend stripping some of the worse ones down like Altar of the Brood and Altar of Dementia and replacing them with more hate. I'd recommend Bitter Ordeal as an alternate win condition, because it's not shut out by null rod, or any single counterspell (except flusterstorm, but screw that card).
Authority of the Consuls is neat, depending on your meta. It stops godo and some other decks, but I'd be hesitant to run it alongside Blind Obedience . Is there a particular reason for this? If it's just a hateful card, I'd recommend trying out Victimize or Reanimate as I'm sure your hateful cards could use another go.
dingusdingo on Flex
4 months ago
Nice deck! A lot of neat combos tucked in here. I have some suggested edits for you though!
Mouth of Ronom is a card you could very easily run. Green doesn't have a lot of targeted removal, and the opportunity cost for playing it is extremely low. If you swap your forests for snow covered forests, you're golden
I'm confused why you're running a fetchland at all. You don't need color fixing, and the deck thinning is extremely marginal when you consider how much it can slow you down against cards like Root Maze Back to Basics Thalia, Heretic Cathar Blood Moon Magus of the Moon Frozen AEther Kismet
Some of the card draw you run is pretty inefficient or extremely expensive. I'm specifically looking at Seer's Sundial and Sandstone Oracle . Sundial costs you 6 mana for the first card, while Sandstone is always dependent on opponents hand sizes for card draw, making it unreliable (and also costing 7 mana). I'm also not a huge fan of Sea Gate Wreckage but the opportunity cost for running it is extremely low. Have you considered Memory Jar or Howling Mine ? With your massive mana production Memory Jar could allow you to draw 7 and dump your entire hand. Howling Mine will accelerate your draws much earlier, although it is symmetrical. Beast Whisperer could be a good replacement if you don't want to give advantage to opponents, you certainly run enough creatures to justify. Life's Legacy is also a solid choice, especially since you're already running Greater Good
You run quite a few basic land tutors, some of them pretty low card quality. When you have access to Gaea's Cradle and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx , why are you spending mana and card resources looking for basic lands? Specifically looking at Cultivate Kodama's Reach Nissa's Pilgrimage Seek the Horizon Journey of Discovery and Yavimaya Elder . If you ran fewer than 40 lands in this deck, you probably wouldn't have to run so many cards to deck thin to help your top deck, you could pretty easily cut to 34-36 lands. I'm also not wild about the very high CMC Hour of Promise , but it does search for non-basics. I'm also not very hyped about Tempt with Discovery , if you are playing against even mediocre or up skill level opponents you will be paying 4 CMC to search for one non-basic land. You're only getting more than one land off Tempt against bad players, or against players who can drop a Gaea's Cradle or other super value land against you.
Speaking of ramp, you should consider running Priest of Titania as well as Karametra's Acolyte . Currently you are very vulnerable to Armageddon and Ravages of War , two cards that see play in stax decks (as well as others). Having Ramunap and Crucible is a good choice, but you won't have access to those every single game you get hit by Armageddon. You should really consider mainboarding Carpet of Flowers as well, its virtually guaranteed someone will be running blue in a pod of 4, and it will let you hit turn 2 Azusa, and provide more value as the game goes later for very small investment.
On the topic of Stax, your deck is super vulnerable to getting caught. Almost all your draw is 3+ CMC, you have basically no removal, and you run a barebones 0/1/2 CMC ramp package. Thorn of Amethyst Sphere of Resistance Winter Orb Static Orb Thalia, Guardian of Thraben Lodestone Golem all cause immense problems for your deck. I understand that if you start your draw engine, you can escape from underneath them by dumping lands with your commander, but what do you do if one of those stax pieces lands on turn 1? Going fast works against stax, but there's no way you're going faster than a deck that runs the full suite of 0/1/2 cmc artifact ramp (which most stax decks do). You aren't going fast enough to threaten a win on turn 3, so you need to include removal. Having no removal is also a huge problem when beatdown is your wincon. What do you do against Moat ? Or Island Sanctuary ? Or Solitary Confinement ? A single piece of removal in the form of an 8 cmc creature is just not gonna cut it against real decks.
I would also recommend casting a really critical eye towards anything 5+ cmc. Cards that cost that much that don't actively win or directly lead to winning are most likely not worth the mana investment or the card space, even though you are a deck that ramps mana and draws cards. To put it in other terms, there are better things you could be doing with that mana. Your primary win con costs 10 mana to cast, 20 more to use, for a whopping 30 mana. Its forcing you to run pretty low quality cards like Mana Reflection and Zendikar Resurgent to get to that absurd amount of mana, on top of 40 lands. Running lower CMC spells will allow you to free up those expensive CMC slots that only enable you to play other expensive spells.
A couple more cards in specific you should reconsider Akroma's Memorial Ring of Three Wishes . Memorial you can replace with Lightning Greaves as a haste enabler for Craterhoof Lines, and Ring happens to cost you 10 mana to get a single card to hand, 15 for 2 cards, 20 for 3 cards, which we would call inefficient.
Would recommend Staff of Domination , especially if you include Priest of Titania or Karametra's Acolyte . Opens up lines for infinite mana and drawing your deck, or just provides a solid dump when you have too much mana and nowhere to go. I would also recommend Eldritch Evolution as another strong tutor. Uncage the Menagerie and Weird Harvest are a bit lower quality, but potentially what you're looking for as well. And I can't stress enough, add some removal to your deck. There are plenty of hyper efficient 1/2 cmc removal spells in green, as well as creatures that pack removal on ETB, which combines well with all the green tutors you run.
4 months ago
I would really like to hear about your test games, outside of myself I haven't actually had anybody say they've tried the deck. Something I am really eager to see, but I digress.
I tried Strip Mine / Wasteland , but at 31 lands, I barely make it to 4 lands before I start popping off by other means, so saccing a land really hurts my curve, since every land I get almost always needs to be used for mana.
Sea Gate Wreckage : I've always loved this card, but achieving hellbent on this deck usually means I have won, or the game is about to end. I've always loved cards that do something while nothing is happening, but my meta has removed these breather moments, so I never get value out of fun cards like this and Scrying Sheets . In all honesty though, I would run them if it wasn't for the cutthroat nature of my current meta.
Brown Ouphe : Not a fan of the need for haste, so it feels like a weaker Caustic Caterpillar . However, Ouphe Vandals is a card I didn't even know existed. This one I will definitely test, since that's pretty sick. Thanks a lot for this one, I will be testing it. Also, please note it doesn't hit triggered, just activated, which is not bad though cause of scepter. (Time to wrack my brain looking for a slot)
As for the fetches, yes, it's for the shuffling and for Dryad Arbor , which is great in situations where I need to Skullclamp something, Natural Order / Eldritch Evolution , get more out of Regal Force / Gaea's Cradle / Great Oak Guardian . I am also aware that deck thinning is more or less a myth, but in a deck that runs 31 lands, knowing one will eliminate the possibility of drawing another is a blessing in a combo deck (my 2 cents).
I wanted to thank you for taking the time to look at my deck, words cannot describe how much I appreciate it and thanks for the awesome card suggestions!
4 months ago
I'd assume that this is a decision based on your meta, but is the Ravenous Slime in the board due to a lack of flash-hulk decks about?
Also, a few tests show that you could think about running Scrying Sheets , Arch of Orazca , Sea Gate Wreckage , Isolated Watchtower , Strip Mine , Wasteland - all of these are low-power & will likely take time to notice the advantage that they give, but it's relevant.
Lastly I'd like to ask: are the fetches used for shuffling away cards returned via sylvan library, or am I missing an alternate benefit?
5 months ago
For card draw in white you can use generic deck thinners to instead improve the quality of draws. Secluded Steppe , Drifting Meadow for example. Gift of Estates or Land Tax , Strata Scythe , Sword of the Animist options. Seer's Sundial , Mentor of the Meek , Tamiyo's Journal , Sea Gate Wreckage , Loreseeker's Stone actually draw stuff.
Sea Gate Wreckage occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.04%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%