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: Add to your mana pool.
, : Look at the top card of your library. If that card is snow, you may reveal it and put it into your hand. ( can be paid with one mana from a snow permanent.)
Scrying Sheets Discussion
1 week ago
I like that you removed the red from this and went with Aminatou, the Fateshifter .
Not sure how competitive you want to make this but here are some cards to think about:
Also you might want to look into the possibility of snow lands and Scrying Sheets
1 week ago
Just a heads up, I'd replace your Mountains with Snow-Covered Mountain s because Extraplanar Lens doubles mana of ALL lands named. More than likely no one at the table will have snow lands so... Plus this gives your access to Scrying Sheets which is something this deck greatly needs, card advantage. Also I REALLY, REALLY think you should be playing Sarkhan, Fireblood and Sarkhan's Unsealing they are WAY too good for this deck.
Here's some card suggestions!
- Chandra, Torch of Defiance
- Staff of Nin
- Mind's Eye
- Wheel of Fortune
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Faithless Looting
- Tormenting Voice
- Cathartic Reunion
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Sin Prodder
- Hedron Archive
- Treasure Map Flip
- The Immortal Sun
- Experimental Frenzy
- Endless Atlas
- Coveted Jewel
Here are some cut suggestions:
- Fledgling Dragon: For four mana you could play Moltensteel Dragon or Territorial Hellkite both of which are more value in my opinion
- Emblem of the warmind: As stated previously it's too easy to deal with.
- Farsight mask: Mind's Eye is strictly better, and you don't want to get hit in the face in order to draw a card.
- Kindred charge: This is PURELY a wind more card in dragons. By the time you cast this, because you'll hold it trying to maximize the copies, you'll be doing massive damage ANYWAY.
- Ancient hellkite: A lot of mana for a meh dragon when this could be a Steel Hellkite , Kilnmouth Dragon , Skyline Despot , or a Demanding Dragon
- Archwing dragon: If you are going to dedicate paying four mana to a dragon every turn, just play Dragon Tyrant
- Slumbering dragon: I like this card idealy... but if we are being honest... This card is NEVER going to wake up, no one is going to let an 8/8 dragon sit on the table for 5 turns.
- Zirilan of the claw: It's good... but you have to exile your creatures... and that's not good for you.
2 weeks ago
Hey, saw your forum topic asking for help.
Ramp with your budget to consider adding:
- High Tide : with Islands and Frantic Search , Turnabout , Rewind , Unwind , Palinchron
- Extraplanar Lens : works well with snow covered Island and Plains. That turns off bonus mana your opponents get from normal basic lands. If opponents are using snow covered lands then they will get the mana bonus.
- Rings of Brighthearth : combos with Monolith to make infinite colorless mana.
- Chromatic Lantern
- Fellwar Stone
- Mind Stone
- Gilded Lotus
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Trinket Mage : to tutor for one of Ring, Vault, Mox.
- Land Tax : not land ramp, but helps to have a hand full of lands especially Islands if adding Tide. Can search for snow covered lands they are basic lands.
- Weathered Wayfarer : not land ramp, but can help to make land drops and can tutor for any land.
- Gift of Estates : not land ramp, but can search for duals: Fountain, Stream, Farmland, Tundra.
- Scrying Sheets : with snow covered lands.
- Azor's Gateway Flip: takes some time to flip, but once it does Sanctum of the Sun can create a lot of ramp.
2 weeks ago
I was intrigued and looked for your list, but I didn't see it on TappedOut. We should compare, at the very least!
In any case, sorry it took so long to write this response. I wanted to try and break down what I think are your main points, and, well, I apologize if I misinterpreted you, but here's what I got out of your comment:
The way I read it, it looks like you're saying the deck needs to be slower. This reading is a little unfair on my part, possibly a little too overly hostile, but, I mean, I can't fathom a turn-six kill when I play a card like Peregrination on turn four. Like, that's just not going to happen. And if you're arguing that the deck becomes more able to grind, well, I have two problems with that:
First, I guess I don't know your meta entirely, but do non-optomized tables not just gun for Sasaya immediately? Like, even just reading what she does kind of sets off some alarm bells, doesn't it? I know everytime I play with somebody new, whenever I get to the "So if I have six Forests out, they all tap for six green" bit, the inevitable response is something akin to "Oh, that's not good." And then if the combo does work, all the more incentive to get targeted next game, or next week, or whenever I play the deck again. That's why I aim for speed above everything else, because if I don't, well, I just get run over.
Second, the methods you suggest of becoming more resilient don't really work? Like, yeah, Howling Mine has its uses, but I'd really rather not give my opponents more cards to beat me with, because I'm still the target. It's also why I'm skeptical of Oath of Druids . It's not that I probably won't get free stuff, it's that other people get free stuff first, and when Sasaya's on top of the hill -- a position the deck's going to be in until it's dead -- all that free stuff is headed right at me. I figure you disagree with me about this -- I mean, you did talk about how people want to deal with other people's threats -- but that really hasn't been my experience.
Incidentally, these are the reasons I cut utility lands as well. They do have a use. Of course they have a use. But that use is kind of marginal when just playing them makes the deck slower. If they were named "Forest" or "Snow-Covered Forest", we might be talking, but they're not. The only instance I can imagine where that wouldn't be the case is hitting one off of Oracle of Mul Daya , and that seems kind of marginal at best. I've mentioned this before, but sometimes I'm not even sure Scrying Sheets belongs in this deck.
But, speaking of Utility lands, let's talk Reliquary Tower . Or, I guess more specifically, "no max hand size" effects and why I think they're bad/overrated:
So the consensus as far as I understand it in "real EDH" (read: non-Sasaya) circles is that these cards (Reliquary Tower specifically, though I imagine Spellbook and Library of Leng have similar reasoning (at least Thought Vessel is a mana rock)) are kind of win-more. Like, there is definitely the feel-bad psychological effect of casting a big Blue Sun's Zenith , not finding an outlet for all those cards, and having to discard all the way back down to seven, effectively wasting all that mana, but if you think about it, at the end of the day you're still keeping seven really good cards. So that plus the fact that the graveyard is much more of a resource in EDH than almost anywhere else, and the "no max hand size" effect starts to lose its luster.
But let's talk about Sasaya specifically. As you mentioned, seven lands is a lot of hand space. Under normal circumstances, that means you'll only really have room for one payoff spell, so it better be a good one (put a pin in this idea, we'll come back to it in a bit). But there are alternatives. Last paragraph, I talked about the feel-bad of not getting to keep that big hand, but remember how that big hand happened in the first place: a Blue Sun's Zenith. More specific to my point: an instant.
Continuing this thought experiment a little further, let's ask why a player might cast a 7+ card draw spell in the first place. One might imagine that a player casts such a draw spell hoping for an effect that removes their hand limit, but that's not the only possibility. They could also be looking for a specific combo -- a way to end the game. Compare that to Sasaya's instant-speed land searchers (a special shout-out to Yavimaya Elder !). In Sasaya's case, the payoff effect we're looking for is already in the Command Zone.
In my opinion, therefore, the deck doesn't need its hand limit removed because there are enough effects that ignore that limitation, and cards like Expedition Map that can find these cards aren't actually that good.
But the "why" for that specific claim is a different topic entirely. Let's talk about it!
In your post, you mentioned that cards like Cultivate , Kodama's Reach , and Peregrination were all "ideal ramp spells" for a Sasaya player, as they also added a land to the hand, therefore ending up card-positive. Now, I already dismissed Peregrination out of hand for being too slow, but it's important to include it here as well because I feel it has the same other trappings that might encourage a Sasaya player to play these cards. In short, I posit that these cards are, in fact, card-neutral at best.
This applies to Renegade Map et al. as well, but I'm just going to focus on the sorceries just for simplicity's sake. Let's examine a typical goldfish turn. First, the draw step. Obviously, they're at plus one card. Then, the goldfish plays a land, removing a card, then playing a non-land, which is minus another. If that non-land is a Cultivate effect, that only adds one card back, which leaves the goldfish more or less where they started. Because ramp becomes negligible once Sasaya flips (while there is certainly a difference between, say, eightteen starting mana and twenty-eight, I find it's not enough to worry about, and the difference between twenty-eight and forty is even less), that means the goldfish is spending three mana on nothing much at all (as a sidenote, you might notice Nissa's Pilgrimage and Evolution Charm in the deck, which seem to contradict this point. However, both of these cards have occasional upside potential. It doesn't always happen (and, in Pilgrimage's case, certainly never on Turn 3), but circumstances for it do exist, so they keep their slots).
The solution some Sasaya players offer is to stop making land drops, but that seems so tempo-negative to me. I feel that, if I do continue making land-drops, eventually I'll be able to cast these giant threats without the help of Sasaya, and could easily win the game that way.
Lastly, before I get into specific cards, I wanted to talk about the ramp spells I do play. Namely Azusa, Lost but Seeking and similar effects. I already mentioned the speed aspect of my build, and these cards are a part of that. To be more specific, these cards are in the deck to turn cards like Chord of Calling and Citanul Flute into more ramp if necessary, which, when you're going for a Sasaya flip and a kill in the same turn, is worth having in the toolbox. But these cards also function as pseudo-alternate win-conditions. As I alluded to just a paragraph above, the only difference between tapping ten lands for a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and tapping one or two is how smug the caster gets to feel. But the caster still gets an eldrazi in either method, so I don't think the difference in smugness is very big.
So now we come back to that pin I made earlier. Let's talk card specifics. Now, I've tried to go through a lot of these already, sifting through to get at your main points, but there are some notable stragglers, so let's take a look:
Summer Bloom : I've tried it. The problem is, because it's a one-shot effect, it's way too dead pre-flip. Azusa and her kin are both tutorable and stick around, so they're just better.
Skyship Weatherlight : This and Book of Rass are my two favorite suggestions, and I definitely want to try playing around with them on paper instead of just theorycrafting. If there's anything you take from this too-long screed, I want to thank you for bringing these cards to my attention.
Goblin Cannon : This was suggested before and I didn't really dismiss it off-hand, though I did ask "What do I cut?" I didn't have a good answer, then, though maybe it's -1 Akroma's Memorial , Hydra Broodmaster , and Kamahl, Fist of Krosa for +1 Goblin Cannon , Book of Rass , and Skyship Weatherlight ? I'm still hesitant because Kamahl at least is fine pre-flip (Broodmaster is bad yes, but not terrible. At least, I think there's a difference there), not to mention in my meta, effects like Crawlspace and Ensnaring Bridge are less popular than Leyline of Sanctity or even Aegis of the Gods . I guess there I'll have to test and see. You're right, by the way, about Akroma's Memorial being pretty dead 99% of the time, but it's the best haste outlet, and specific kill's been good enough for me.
If I didn't mention a card here, it's because it obviously is different from either my strategy as I've listed in various places, or is implicitly against the deckbuilding philosophy of my particular list. Or maybe I missed it, and you can bring it up if/when you respond.
In any case, thanks for the comment, and keep fighting the mono-green combo fight!
3 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
I think given that you're running Endless Horizons you should want to maximize the amount of plains in your deck over lands with minor upsides. (Thinking fetches here) Their thinning, while technically good, doesn't match the upside of eliminating up to 60% of your dead draws that Endless Horizons provides. To me this is the only way including that card makes sense. Snow-Covered Plains and Scrying Sheets are also great if you can spare the land slot.
2 months ago
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea, doesn't it? Some drafts of this deck before I put it up on this site did indeed have Mouth (along with other utility lands like Dark Depths or Mosswort Bridge) but what happened was that actually slowed the deck down enough that it wasn't really worth it. Depths, to go into more detail than I gave in another comment, still costs thirty mana, and while that's doable, there are a lot more powerful things you can do with this deck if you have thirty mana. I'm not even sure Scrying Sheets is worth it yet, and that's the whole reason the Forests are Snow-Covered to begin with.
More to the point, Mouth of Ronom has a few problems. It costs six total to activate (five plus tapping itself), which, pre-combo is all or almost all of your lands, and once you're well into your combo, there isn't a lot of hate that can stop you that would require creature removal. At least, I haven't seen very much in my meta. Maybe yours is different?
Another problem, and maybe this is a little obvious, is that it's not a Forest, which is important when you're working with Sasaya. It will always only provide a single mana, even as your mana gets exponentially large, which means it's likely to just sit in your hand until it needs used. If it's likely stuck in your hand all game, the only relevant text is its land typing, so why not just make it a basic?
I will admit the deck is answer-light. Primal Command is the only card I use as an answer regularly (a card that also functions as a tutor), and I've eschewed cards like Hurricane and Goblin Cannon, which are answers that can also function as win-conditions should you draw them. This can promote a sort of "head-down, solitaire" style of play that some people find distasteful but I kind of like every once in a while.
Good luck with your build if you do come back to this! Sasaya's definitely a lot of fun.
2 months ago
In regards to Hammer of Nazahn vs. Darksteel Plate the upsides are completely negated by the fact that the hammer itself is not indestructible. That goes a long way to keeping Jaya around and makes your opponents have to deal with the armor in some other fashion, which isn't necessarily as common in typical builds, especially ones that aren't running Anguished Unmaking or Utter End.
Also, the equip cost of the armor is much cheaper since you only get the hammer's reduction/attachment when it enters for the first time. 4 to equip is really rough.
And the +2/+0 is negligible when it is on Jaya, as you're much better off using her Incinerate or Inferno abilities for damage than attacking or blocking anyway.
Snow lands + Scrying Sheets are a decent add, especially with Extraplanar Lens. You might whiff a lot on only 28 lands, but the opportunity cost is pretty low so a lot of decks do go down that route. Also, Jaya was around during the Ice Age, so it's super on flavor.
Scrying Sheets occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.02%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%