Liliana, the Last Hope
Planeswalker — Liliana
+1: Up to one target creature gets -2/-1 until your next turn.
-2: Put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard, then you may return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
-7: You get an emblem with "At the beginning of your end step, create X 2/2 black Zombie creature tokens, where X is two plus the number of Zombies you control."
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Liliana, the Last Hope Discussion
2 months ago
Scavenging Ooze is great in the sideboard, especially with Chord. Another great card is Shapers' Sanctuary . Elves have a very hard time against spot removal, but this protects against it as well as protecting against Wren and Six and Liliana, the Last Hope . I’ve played elves a lot and really like those cards.
3 months ago
okay so a few things of note here.
first. i'd suggest running 4-ofs for your best cards. there isn't any clear reason why you'd want 3 ofs in this scenario except mogis who is legendary in which case it's fine.
second. Lightning Bolt. it's one of the best red cards in the game and it's cost effective way of solving problems cannot be understated. i think it's important that it gets a slot in this deck.
third. your win con appears to be Mogis/burn. Mogis is a very slow way to win. normally for a control deck you are controlling them until you can drop some threat that you can protect that will win the game shortly after that or at least create such a lock as to make getting out of it futile. mogis will never turn on in your deck so at most it's going to be 2 damage a turn from mogis assuming they aren't doing a wide strategy. perhaps a planeswalker like Liliana, the Last Hope who you can +1 to help remove creatures and win off of her ult.
fourth. your mix of control spells is heavily weighted towards destroying creatures after they hit the field. thats something you want to respond to but people play other cards that you'll need to deal with. enchantments like Wilderness Reclamation, artifacts like Amulet of Vigor and non-permanents of all kinds. you also will lose pace with decks that use creature that have ETBs such as Omnath, Locus of Creation and Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath which yes you can kill but you'll be losing card advantage. you need a few more proactive responses and ways to gain incremental advantage over your opponent. discard spells like Thoughtseize or at least multipurpose cards like Kolaghan's Command and Collective Brutality can help. other proactive cards such as Blood Moon and Ghostly Prison can shut down or at least slow opposing decks to keep them from racing ahead of you.
with the above things in mind i'd suggest something along the following changes.
cards to remove:
-3 Crackling Doom: soul shatter and other remove should be sufficient
-3 Lightning Helix: lifegain is great for stabilizing but the power removal comes from it's mana efficiency. on turn 2 being able to play a discard spell and hold up a Lightning Bolt for their creature is much more powerful than the life gain from helix. still a great card for sideboard to bring in against lightning fast agro decks like burn or zoo.
-1 Soul Shatter: i'm not sure you need any of these in the mainboard. you have Anguished Unmaking to get around indestructible should it come up. Dreadbore and Anguished Unmaking can kill planeswalkers. That leaves hexproof is the only thing that this gets around that you don't have an answer for already. hexproof is uncommon enough that i'd personally put this in the sideboard, but considering how many of this effect you have in your deck i'm assuming your meta has enough hexproof to warrant 2 mainboard slots.
-4 Divine Gambit: 1 for 1 at best, 1 for 0 at worst. the ability to exile most types of permanents is powerful but the downside seems too risky and likely to set you behind.
-3 Anger the gods: you don't need 7 soft sweeps. with the amount of removal you have a board wide damage spell is likely for hitting tokens or other wide strategies. for most of these scenarios 2 damage should be enough. in the scenarios where 2 isn't enough, 3 likely isn't either. Wrath of God or similar would be a better bet for those situations.
-1 Pyroclasm: you probably don't even need 4 soft sweeps in the main unless you are expecting a dearth of going wide strategies in your meta.
-3 Mogis, God of Slaughter: without a way to turn him on or a way to create a true lock outs like teferi-pool you aren't going to get as much value out of mogis as you need to make him your win con.
cards to add:
+4 Lightning Bolt: this is solid removal or a damage to face if you don't need to use it as such.
+2-4: Thoughtseize: considered one of the best discard spells in the game because it hits basically everything at the cost of 2 life.
+2-4: Duress: you can choose Inquisition of Kozilek or Raven's Crime or another discard spell of your choice. i'd suggest at least 6 discard spells and you can decide the split between your discard spells depending on how aggressive your meta is.
+2 Kolaghan's Command: small creature removal, artifact removal, discard spell. very versatile.
+4 Liliana, the Last Hope, a strong contender for win con. i went with 4 copies because it doesn't have innate protection and you want it early if you can as it provides good value.
+1 Path to Exile: to make it a 4 of.
+1 Fatal Push: to make it a 4 of.
??? Tibalt's Trickery: I don't know if this is a good idea in control. you are giving up a card to change what card your opponent is casting. but they are still getting something. so you are 1 for 0ing them in a way. if they are casting a spell like Scapeshift for the win then obviously this will help but the risk of them flipping an equally scary threat off the top is very real. but your choices in counterspell are pretty limited.
if you are willing to mess around with your mana base you can probably make good use of Blood Moon as well but that would require some careful maneuvering in a 3 color deck.
3 months ago
Hello! I feel bad for drawing you into this deck but I figured I needed a second opinion and good testing cannot happen without events. Do not feel bad if your responses seem to all be negative. This is a combination of two lists so it will look like yours but vary. For the future, I can test this deck on occasion with an aggro list I have but, to test against anything else would not work as I am not the original pilot of any other deck. Anyway, I love the criticism and I'll start my responses in order, but do remember, I haven't tested anything. So I will be taking consideration but not making any changes yet until I have been able to play enough to decide. Sorry for the long response. Without further ado:
I really like Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger. The ability to remove a card from their hand, more notably a nonland card unless they take life as well, is great. Having a 6/6 beater seems a little less important as there are many other creatures in the deck. There is great value in the choice to escape the card while maintaining Grim Flayer and fueling the escape cost. At this point I can see a direct swap of Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger. While Kroxa reduces the opponents recourses Tasigur gains resources in the opposite manner. It is more by choice of the opponent but by exiling the graveyard with it's delve ability the choices are better. Tasigur's ability can be activated multiple times in a late game setting at end of turn after holding up responses but not needing to activate them, it's another thing to do. I could see this getting in the way of say clue tokens but we have yet to test that out as I see this issue coming in against late game which aggro does not go to. I do like that Kroxa is a recurring threat. All said and done I see the choices being keep how the deck is or swap 1x Tasigur for 1x Kroxa. I say only 1 because the recursion on Kroxa is just so strong if she gets milled she can come back, dies can come back sometimes the next turn if a Grim Flayer is on the field. In the end it comes down to testing but it is a wonderful consideration.
Vraska, Golgari Queen rounds out the 4 drop slot with more removal on a stick and I would have to argue the token generation of Tireless Tracker is exceedingly wonderful for her. In testing against my aggro deck she honestly comes down to -3 then dies the next turn fueling delirium for Grim Flayer so it's hard to say what would go in this slot but it appears as though she is definitely not great in the aggro match up but I could see her excelling in other match ups with her continuous ability. Perhaps another planeswalker would fit the bill better but we have tried Liliana, the Last Hope and she does not make the cut. It's ideal if her +1 could kill something every turn but it typically would not happen and if it does the game is heavily in our favor already. For now I would keep her in but I feel there may be other options out there other than the discussed walkers. I'm not entirely sure any walker is good in the aggro match up so the answer to this question will have to wait until different testing can commence but if I do find an answer I will let you know.
I like Bonecrusher Giant, but I feel only hitting for 2 damage hurts a lot more than it helps. Having another big body is great too, but I feel like that role is already played even in your list with all the other creatures we share and Kroxa. It's basically a direct swap of Bonecrusher Giant and Oath of Chandra. The most we have Oath acomplish in the deck is to bolt something then hit the graveyard (Vraska typically sacrifices Oath, the 2 damage at end step is a trigger that if it would occur is a forgotten trigger). So in this way it's with an instant speed shock or a sorcery bolt. I feel as though we have enough instant speed threats and could use these sorcery speed slots. It's just a unique card to fuel delirium at worst and a bolt with upside at best. I see the reasoning to remove it for something better as most other cards have many modes behind them but I have to admit the amount of multicolored cards in the deck hinder it and having more mono colored removal really helps the deck out in the event of multi colored protection. I find that due to the redundancy of Giant in the list and lackluster damage vs a unique card type that can enter the graveyard fairly easily is a little better. Against aggro it is a good card but I would say otherwise the card would get taken out for something else which isn't necessarily a bad thing it makes cutting cards easier for sideboarding.
Speaking of which, a disclaimer: the sideboard is not complete I just threw in cards and was somewhat in the process of removing some. We want the sideboard to work on match ups where we have difficulty but the hard part at this present moment is trying to figure out what match ups are the tough match ups. You can see we have some cards for aggro: (Abrade, Radiant Flames, even Scavenging Ooze). We have cards for midrange / control: (Agonizing Remorse, Shifting Ceratops). We have graveyard hate: (Scavenging Ooze and Soul-Guide Lantern). And lastly we have cards against combo: (Necromentia and Slaughter Games). Some of these cards can overlap for different needs we just don't know what needs need to be met.
I have had the discussion over Anger of the Gods and we are playing Radiant Flames because of the modular capabilities (playing it for 2 damage or 3, hardly ever 1 as explained here) and getting double red on turn 3 is much harder than getting all colors by turn 3. That, and the off chance we hit our own creatures they remain exiled and not destroyed. That is why we have Radiant Flames over Anger of the Gods. This slot in the sideboard is basically filled. Otherwise I agree Anger is the card to have.
Lastly about Necromentia and Slaughter Games. It is very much redundant to have both of these in the list we just haven't figured out which is better and would only run one, and not sure the amount of that one meta dependent. For Necromentia it can hit a turn earlier, and the off-chance it makes a token we can very much kill it with anything and possibly get value from it with Chevill, Bane of Monsters. For Slaughter Games it can't be countered but hits a turn later. I'm not sure if the ability to get non-basic lands with Necromentia is very relevant but Slaughter Games can only get nonland cards but as mentioned Slaughter Games can't be countered. So for now both of them sit in the sideboard until we can figure out which is better.
Perhaps you may have some insight on the topics mentioned above? If not I do appreciate the constructive criticism and all mentions will be placed in the sideboard for further testing with. Thanks!
3 months ago
I've decided to make more than one list but each one should be helpful to you in the future. Also, you don't need to put in all these cards. There are too many here for you to fit in the deck.
Liliana, Death's Majesty (can be a board wipe but don't count on it), Liliana, Dreadhorde General (also doubles as amazing card draw), Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip, Liliana, the Last Hope, and Liliana, Untouched By Death (has a removal ability).
Zombie tribal cards:
Shepherd of Rot, Lord of the Accursed, Risen Executioner, Relentless Dead, Field of the Dead, Undead Augur (also card advantage), Havengul Runebinder, Stitcher Geralf, Gleaming Overseer, Call to the Grave (rude card), Endless Ranks of the Dead (my favorite zombie tribal card), Graf Harvest, Graveborn Muse (also card advantage), and Josu Vess, Lich Knight.
Never/Return is zombie themed removal.
Necromantic Selection is a zombie themed board wipe.
I hope this helps!
4 months ago
It turns out, for my latest deck, that I thought I had 4x Liliana, the Last Hope but I actually only had 3.
I needed to order one extra.
Here ya go, lands, you have a chance to reach me before Lili as I have ordered her a full week after you.
I was expecting to receive my last land cards today. Three of them. From the same Seller.
Yet again, the last card I am waiting for is a land.
Why? Why am I always waiting for a land(s) to finish my decks?
Curse you, card gods.
4 months ago
I do agree with rjife that many of the cards he suggested should be added to the deck, but I do disagree with his suggestion of Waker of The Dead, as Liliana, the Last Hope is just better. Also, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is more of a sideboard card, and I would recommend swapping out the eat to extinction for Assassin's Trophy in mainboard, and the fatal pushes in sideboard for Kalitas. I would also say take out the Soul Shatters for more Fatal Push.
6 months ago
In my experience, playing modern fairies is mostly about playing the control game and protecting your biggest threat of Bitterblossom.
I would suggest putting a couple Snapcaster Mage in the main. Spell Snare is great with snapcaster so I would recommend that as well. Fatal Push, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and Liliana, the Last Hope are also things to consider.
For the sideboard, I would 100% recommend Nihil Spellbomb and Collective Brutality. Collective Brutality is really important because sometimes you will really want the life gain because of Bitterblossom.
7 months ago
Tarmogoyf and Liliana, the Last Hope feel really out of place in this deck. Yes they are really strong midrange threats, but they're the only midrange threats in the deck. I'd try to either remove those pieces and go more controlling, or remove some of the more controlling pieces (a few of your removal spells maybe) and add in some more effective early game threats like goyf so that you can provide pressure in the early game. Right now I feel like your in a weird middleground between midrange and control, with not enough threats to close out games against control and midrange decks, and not enough control pieces to stabilize against faster decks, so I feel you need to pick one of those routes to go down.