Once again, there are things you can learn from playtesting.

You just can't claim that one deck is necessarily always going to beat another one.

My entire game plan does NOT resolve around getting at least 1 removal spell to win the tide or stabilize.

It is just helpful to have one.

I win through making my stuff unblockable.

I have copious notes on how to Sideboard against various decks.

I take decks from mtgdecks.net to add to the gauntlet.

They have one of the best meta breakdowns I've seen online.

This conversation is becoming tedious.

Since this is my deck, I'm just going to delete any further chit chat that isn't about improving this deck.

TriusMalarky like you, I assumed that the opponent would keep paying to attack with the creature tapped by Singing Bell Strike

In reality, they just untapped it once, then left it as a blocker.

Padeem is needed against that deck for draw, so stays in.

It's just the one swap - Ugin's Fate in, and Singing Bell Strike out.

If anyone is interested, I can say exactly when I built the first version of this deck (5 years ago (inspired by Whirler Rogue ), and there are also two detailed match reports recorded at that time.

Monothopters

I adjusted the deck for Frontier play Monothopters [Frontier] and twice for Pioneer, due to bans. Resulting in this current form.

I don't see how the Pioneer gauntlet I set up is subpar. I upgrade it from time to time with the current top tier meta decks.

I did that recently, and posted about it in the Pioneer forum on this site.

I see you agree with me that play tests aren't the be all and end all. As I said above, they are really only useful to see if an idea works for a deck, or to test a new card in the build.

I can't remember if I've told many people on this site, "My deck can beat yours easily". Maybe once or twice, in seven years, and only if they were being a jerk to somebody else.

As for doing a couple of play throughs against another deck, if you read what I wrote above, I do a minimum of five matches between two decks, when play testing.

That means I play an opponent's deck between 10 and 15 times. I get to know them quite well.

If I'm unsure how a meta deck is supposed to work, I look it up on YouTube.

I play test every time I have a moment to myself. Around five hours each day.

This is when I am building a new deck. Once I am happy with a deck I just do a bit of practice each day, to keep in mind how to pilot my deck against others in my local meta.

I know exactly how those decks work, because I have played against them irl.

I will also play test against other random decks on this site. Which is a terrific resource.

I think we have strayed off discussing my build, here.

I have some initial results with Singing Bell Strike

It has proven excellent to get that card out for 2MV, as opposed to Claustrophobia's 3MV.

There has been one deck where Claustrophobia would have been better, because it makes the games go longer, and can easily scrape together the to untap from Singing Bell Strike

It then just left that large creature up as a blocker.

However, my Sideboard plan against that deck is to swap the tapchanment for Reality Shift so I don't see that as a deal breaker.

Playing against Aggro decks is where Singing Bell Strike has really shone. They just don't have the mana to untap from it. Or if they do, they would rather spend it on other things.

Yeah but there aren't any interruptions or interactions with other decks.

Whenever I playtest a deck, I do so against a variety of other decks.

First against those in my local meta, then against those in the wider meta.

That way I can get an idea of how it might play against Control, Aggro, Combo, Midrange, etc.

Here are the decks I playtest against.

Pioneer testing gauntlet

I described above HOW I test. I roll dice to decide who plays first, so that also mimics tournament play.

It's not perfect, but it shows you any weaknesses that need to be addressed.

I think we have very different levels of experience with testing decks on TappedOut, comparing my Profile info with yours.

Never mind, I still appreciate your input.

This is the deck that you linked to.

Legendary Soup

This is the one I think you MEANT to link to.

Legendary Soup

Someone grabbed that name before you.

yeaGO is there any problem with the top deck lists, at the moment?

I'm asking because I haven't seen any movement in any of those decks over the past couple of days.

No AFR cards and, as I said, I've waited a couple of days.

I haven't actually seen ANY of the top decks move, during that time.

In the past there would have been some movement, by now.

I'm not getting my money's worth on my feature tokens.

itsbuzzi it isn't your name on that deck. Have you made a second account?

I feel like you are goldfishing, because you aren't saying what the other deck has played in response to yours.

This is also why I write detailed match reports for my decks.

It gives the ins and outs of how a deck has performed in a tournament.

By giving you a chance to think back over how you won and lost, it becomes clearer which things aren't working in a deck.

It's surprising the amount of new things you find out your deck can do, when concentrating fully on it in a competitive space.

As far as Legendary decks, my favourite at the moment is my Alexandria: The Walking Dead

It's built entirely for flavour, and I play it casually with friends.

Effective playtests depend on many things.

1. Randomizing who goes first.

2. Playing as though you can't see your opponent's hand.

3. Not rectifying mistakes you make.

4. Not allowing the opponent deck to make any mistakes.

5. Knowing how to pilot the opponent deck as well as your own, including working out the best Sideboard.

6. Playing two Sideboarded games after the first game.

7. Playing around five matches, so you fully understand how the opponent deck works.

They are good to figure out if a deck works, or to test whether a different card works.

What they aren't great for is learning how well they match up against other decks. For that, I am lucky that I live with StuBi and he can pilot the other deck against mine.

We can also work out the best way to Sideboard the opponent deck.

My deck has more votes than some of the top ten decks at the moment, but isn't appearing anywhere in the top 50.

I've left it a couple of days to see if it just needed time to adjust.

You can add Tokens as alters, then just use the code to add these to your Horde deck.

Due to you taking so much time to comment on this deck, TriusMalarky I'll explain why I didn't like these other card suggestions.

Runner's Bane - being able to pin down larger creatures is sometimes essential. I've found this to be so against Enchantment decks, for example.

For this reason Bind the Monster is also not a good way to go. I often win games by only one or two points, so every bit of life loss counts. It's one of the reasons why this deck is Mono Blue.

Unquenchable Thirst - I don't wish to add any Deserts to the deck, as that will dilute my mana base too much. It's stretched as is. I also can't afford to have an opponent creature with Vigilance, that I can't lock down.

That leaves our friend, Singing Bell Strike

itsbuzzi gets it!

Legendary high five!!

TriusMalarky what I do every now and then is check to see whether there is a card I like better than one I already using, and Singing Bell Strike was the only one I thought could really work.

It was very popular at my LGS, when it was in Standard.

As with deciding whether or not to use Disallow or Negate , for example, it's very much dependent on the situation I use the cards for.

In this deck I have gone with Negate and Test of Talents in my Sideboard, because I specifically want ways to protect my field.

I will have a play around with Singing Bell Strike to see if I like it better, but Claustrophobia has suited what I want to do - disable an opponent creature, in order to get lethal damage through.

My decks are often very geared towards my local meta, which means that some cards that wouldn't work for others, work for me.

I do appreciate all the thought you are putting into this deck.

I should also mention that I've been using Test of Talents lately, along with Negate and I very much like what it does.

Yorion decks usually have a tonne of draw and filtering, in order not to get mana flooded. Cards like Opt and Censor

It also makes them more consistent.

Lack of consistency is an issue for this deck. It just can't always get the right pieces in hand, when it needs to.

Part of the issue is the amount of counter spells. You need more removal, to deal with cards that slip through, and get cast. Something like Murderous Rider and/or Heartless Act (although Hero's Downfall can be better than Murderous Rider with Dig Through Time ).

Fatal Push on its own can't deal with larger Creatures, or Planeswalkers.

I would swap the lone Swamp for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth as it is strictly better, and helps with colour fixing. Although you might then need to add another basic Swamp, so that Fabled Passage can find it.

At the moment Fabled Passage is fairly useless as you often have lots of Islands, and you only have one Swamp that you can find in your deck.

In my play testing Engulf the Shore wasn't great. I had a creature with Haste, and two equipment on the field. I just played that creature again on my turn, reattached the equipment, and hit as normal.

I see that you removed Negate which I consider one of the best counter spells in Pioneer. What was bad about it, for you?

Mystical Dispute is a great card for control decks, isn't it? Lots of Pioneer decks with that in the Sideboard. It's deadly against The Pioneer Blues deck I run.

Have you played this deck competitively? I would be interested to read some match reports to see whether or not I've been playing it wrong.

Hope that helps.

I can't run less than three Shadowspear as it is a game winner, and sometimes I don't even see it in hand, with only three copies.

Padeem, Consul of Innovation is my only source of draw, and is the first target for removal, so four copies of that is necessary. I very much want to see it in hand.

I've played a version of this deck in tournaments many times over the years, since Magic Origins, and Claustrophobia is far more competitive than you might expect. Don't forget that Banishing Light is run in many competitive builds, and is also 3MV.

As stated in my notes, I will swap it for Reality Shift in game 2 and 3, if I need to.

I have a different philosophy regarding Legendary cards, to a lot of other players.

They don't like seeing one in hand, if they have one on the field.

I personally don't mind. If it's a card that helps me win games I'd rather see two during a game, than none.

Thanks for the input.

I just don't have time to explain why each card under consideration wasn't useful.

Or I've forgotten, because I tested them so long ago.

I always find match reports helpful, to see what the strengths and weaknesses of a deck are.

If you take a look at any of my decks, you'll see that I include them as updates.

I really enjoyed Frontier but it wasn't very popular in my area.

I played both this deck and Cast a Shadow in it. I've been playing Cast a Shadow since Shadows Over Innistrad. I enjoy playing The Pioneer Blues much more.