Destroy all lands or all creatures. Creatures destroyed this way can't be regenerated.
|Have (2)||winterwind10 , Forkbeard|
Printings View all
|Battle Royale Box Set (BRB)||Rare|
|Urza's Saga (USG)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Catastrophe occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%
2 weeks ago
Very nice build, +1! =)
Would suggest Expedition Map to get to Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or any of your other goodies faster. Would echo the Sun Titan recommendation, as well. The only other thing that comes to mind is Winter Orb - really great synergy with Armageddon/Catastrophe.
2 months ago
Nice list. I would run Boom / Bust, Catastrophe, Boil or something like Magus of the Moon instead of Ruination tho. Maybe your playgroup runs a lot of nonbasics, but you also have a lot of nonbasics so.
2 months ago
Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are must-runs in black, but maybe belong on your "Sideboard" for now. Diabolic Intent is also super good with tokens and might be cheap enough to run outright. Enlightened Tutor has enough targets in your deck also.
Other general bombs: Catastrophe (an incredible wipe in general, often slept upon), Axis of Mortality (wtf why does nobody run this, you should exercise your queenly authority and tell people that their life total now belongs to the crown), Solemn Simulacrum (ramp in non-green, though sadly in the same slot as your gen at 4 mana), Vedalken Orrery (surprise! always good), Exquisite Blood (biiiig time lifegain, can be a ridiculous difference maker)
Tokens: Anger, Filth (combos huge with anyone playing Urborg, or even just any black deck), Archetype of Aggression (Trample combos really well with Deathtouch, since you only need to deal one damage to the creature to be lethal and the rest of the damage tramples over), Archetype of Finality, Street Riot, Berserkers' Onslaught, Rage Reflection, Brave the Sands (Vigilance also combos really well First Strike + Death Touch, as does being able to block multiple creatures—basically a wall effect like Norn's Annex), Eldrazi Monument (very cool with token generation), Goblin War Drums, Intimidation, Mirror Entity, Nahiri, Storm of Stone (cutie Nahiri!), Radiant Destiny, Silverwing Squadron (token time), Grenzo, Havoc Raiser (Goads, pretty damn good card, seems popular in Marchesa decks), Skullclamp (big time card draw for your 1/1 tokens), Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (another wall/token generator), Anointed Procession (double tokens!)
Other Royal Shit: Dreadhorde Invasion (creates Armies (fun flavor), tokens, Lifelink potential), Mobilized District (makes Citizen land, big flavor), Giant Killer (removal + Peasant + taps), Sengir Autocrat (SERFS!!), Righteous War (wild flavor, pretty solid evasion, gives your general Protection from Black AND White, could actually be a huge sleeper card), Stronghold Assassin (also an Assassin, obviously)
Powerful Women & Bad Bitches: Imposing Sovereign (also a Noble), Linden, the Steadfast Queen (also a noble), Agent of Masks (also an Advisor + "Aristocrats" staple), Diaochan, Artful Beauty (also an Advisor, could be neat with Hexproof lol), Masako the Humorless (also an Advisor, also fucking savage holy shit look at her), Orzhov Advokist (I know you've got it in the Maybelist, but it's so on-theme and it may or may not be better than Norn's Annex), Teysa Karlov (also an Advisor, great for tokens, you already have her other baller version), Etali, Primal Storm (I dunno, Elder, he's good), Zetalpa, Primal Dawn (same as before, also she's probably female so yeah), Massacre Girl (also an Assassin), Avatar of Woe, Silent Assassin (also a sexy Assassin), Thorn of the Black Rose (also an Assassin, themey, weak though, I suppose), Adriana, Captain of the Guard (wild with wide/tokens), angelic field marshall, Dark Impostor (also an Assassin), Danitha Capashen, Paragon, Stoneforge Mystic (big time with equipments, seriously some formats have called for her to be banned she's such a bad girl) Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Twilight Prophet (woah)
Tax/Bones: Kambal, Consul of Allocation (seriously amazing, most Marchesa decks run it, also an Advisor), Sheoldred, Whispering One, Urabrask the Hidden, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Pontiff of Blight (biiig beef, Marchesa controls the church), Wound Reflection (serious finisher, should really consider), Dictate of Erebos, Mogis, God of Slaughter, Fate Unraveler, Ankh of Mishra, Polluted Bonds (Ankh of Mishra on steroids, actually pretty broken card overall, probably should strongly consider it)
Multiplayer Shenanigans: Scandalmonger, Warmonger, and Wishmonger (wild times, probably too wild but they can be game finishers in weird ways); Varchild's War-Riders, Assault Suit, Goblin Assassin (also an Assassin), Embereth Skyblazer
Auras/Equipment: Kusari-Gama (super savage with Deathtouch), Helm of the Host (big theme on the flavor text, also a great card in general), Tenza, Godo's Maul, Angelic Destiny, Argentum Armor, Battle Mastery, Blackblade Reforged (a gen-equiping classic), Blessing of Leeches (Instant-speed free regeneration? This is another sleeper card, and it even has an amazing feminie art), Shadowspear, Colossus Hammer (kinda amazing with your gen), Embercleave, Whispersilk Cloak (you know Marches owns one of these), Fireshrieker (beefer)
5 months ago
Lets see, You want protection for your general and board. Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Diplomatic Immunity, Mother of Runes/Giver of Runes, Counterspell. Swan Song, Drown in the Loch are usually the best in their field.
As far as good cards you want Serra Ascendant, Smothering Tithe, Reclamation Sage, Birds of Paradise, Rishkar's Expertise, Plaguecrafter, Guardian Project, Beast Whisperer, Narset, Parter of Veils, Triumph of the Hordes, Pathbreaker Ibex, Eldritch Evolution
5 months ago
Oh, also I forgot that Catastrophe is a card. It's basically just a cheaper replacement for Ravages of War, although if you're down to spend a whole ton of money, that would probably be a good addition too.
7 months ago
Burningdragon91 I used to run with Reconnaissance and Nahiri's Machinations but they were both dead cards. With 3 opponents, someone is ALWAYS open or has 1 creature to use any of the single target removal, OR first strike just overrules their blocker. Narset games don't last long. HOWEVER, if they "do," there are 2 creature board wipes to cast to remove what you need: Catastrophe , Cyclonic Rift (also single target), and Cataclysm .
7 months ago
enpc Fair enough, I'll get to your response in bits too. Sorry it's been so long underway but I've had my response written down on a different PC that I couldn't get access to for a while. I'm just going to post this initial section and keep adding to it going forward.
- "But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it."
Not quite true. My argument is that relying too heavily on artifacts makes you very vulnerable to a removal type that is a lot more common than counter measures to alternative kinds of resource generation - like land ramp, blue's untaps and artifact manipulation, black's graveyard ress, alternative payments, and rituals, and red's artifact swap, rituals and other mana cheats . It's a lot easier to counter measure an artifact than many of the other types of mana accelerations in the game. And if your color can basically only achieve a very fundamental mechanic of the game like ramp and card draw through artifacts, it makes you more vulnerable than those that can achieve it in a different way.
I completely agree with you that removal is a fundamental part of an interactive game like MtG and is part of the fun and makes the game what it is. I don't advocate that removal/interaction should be worse or something like that. However I reckon when there's a disparity between how well removal interacts with artifacts versus other mana accelerators and that it hits certain colors more than others, then I see a possible issue that is worth looking into and possibly correct.
- "In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many."
I mean outside of Avacyn, Angel of Hope and emblem elspeth , and the aforementioned Teferi's Protection (which is a pretty ludicrous spell in of itself), white cannot actually protect their own non-creature stuff that well. And their hexproof is mainly to protect the player themselves and not their board (there's odric off-keyword giver - I mean deathtouch, skulk, menace?) - which is kinda weird in my eyes as white is the color of community and going wide more than tall and have indestructible as a primary evergreen keyword.
So white doesn't actually have that good, flexible or effective means to protect their own non-creature stuff. White is even the color of indestructible as one of their primary evergreen keywords... and it's actually worse off when protecting non-creature permanents than a color like green .
So in your proposed scenario where white counters green's land ramp with MLD, green actually has a very good, cheap and flexible counter, that leaves white at a huge disadvantage. Although it is only one card, but then again, there are 3 major land destruction spells in white (that is legal in Commander) being Armageddon , Ravages of War (check that price tag, hello Portal), and Catastrophe ... and to an extend Fall of the Thran .
Lands have always been the exemption to many destruction effects and there have not been printed much in terms of land destruction in recent times (outside 1-for-1s Tectonic Edge that is meant for removing utility lands/power lands). So I'd like to challenge your claim that land destruction is what WotC wants to show is part of what white does. I cannot deny that WotC have made more stax-like cards for white in recent times, but I reckon that's because taxing and hindering is something WotC can more easily print for white as a color identity mechanic than land destruction, again because lands have a special status and don't perish as most other permanents in the game.
In relation to the mentioned cards that can help white to land ramp; true these exists and many utilize them in their decks if they don't have better options. I did not actually know of the Kor Cartographer , paralleling Wood Elves in a worse state, fitting of a color imitating another color's strength. I would just like to see more of these type of cards, and if WotC finds a way to make them less mana intensive (like the 6 needed for Burnished Hart - it's still a good card because it's 2 on the field, but it's good more due to lack of better) but requiring something else that white is good at, I think that would be a good compromise between allowing that power but not make it as flexible and strong as green's ramp. Simply requiring more mana to mana ramp, seems kinda unproductive as those colors wanting that imitating mana ramp is already light on mana production. Kinda feels like "Don't be poor, just be rich. It's easy making money when you're rich!".
And I'm afraid I'm being a bit repetitive, but stax effects in general, are something that negatively influences white's political standing and threat/annoyance assessment in Commander - so if white is doomed to be the "I hold the rest of you back"-kind of guy, to be somewhat "on par" with the rest, then white is always going to be a bad color for casual multiplayer formats, like Commander.
- "So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall."
The limited data we have and many players' personal experience says that white is less likely to succeed in Commander than any other singular color. Do you think this is just pure fiction spun up by white-loving players? Or do you think there's some truth to it? Why would white players be more prone to bad deck building than players of any other color?
Jumping at bit in your post:
- "Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it."
My anecdotal evidence is from 6 friends I play Commander with, where most agrees that white is the worst of the colors for Commander when considering mono-color (I'm uncertain of the opinion of 2 of them as they haven't said it outright). Other than that I know that the Youtube content creators "The Command Zone" has strong opinions on white lacking support in Commander, and as far as I've seen in the comment section of their video regarding color strength, within context of the Commander format, there's a lot of people who shares that viewpoint and a lot who don't. Of those that don't share the viewpoint, there's some who are very vocal and sadly also some who are frankly quite rude in their statements.
I'll end my post here and get back to you when I have more time.
7 months ago
Tzefick: I read through the original post, but I want to circle back to it later. And you will have to excuse the order in general, I was responding to this across the course of a day.
On artifact removal
There are a few points to unpack here. The first, and most importantly, is that removal is a big part of Magic, the Gathering and honestly, is what makes games (and deckbuilding) interesting. IF MtG was just about amassing board states and then slamming big creatures into other big creatures, the game would be much more boring (not to mention take much longer). But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it.
As for dealing with removal (especially mass removal) - there are still many options that white already has access to which does actually allow them to ramp. Wayfarer's Bauble , Burnished Hart , Solemn Simulacrum , Kor Cartographer , Knight of the White Orchid are all perfectly valid land ramp cards. Sure, the average CMC of these spells is higher than their green counterparts, however green is THE ramp colour, so it would be expecteded that there would be hihger costs/more contitions to be met for other colours to do a similar thing. And that's without even touching on cards like Sword of the Animist or Explorer's Scope which are both equipment and what white excels at.
In addition to this, while not ramping, white already has access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer , Land Tax , and Tithe which allow you to consistently hit your lands. While not as good as outright ramping, if you're hitting your lands each turn, you're genereally not doing too badly. And when combined with other ramp effects, by mid to late game you still end up with as much mana as most players.
Now onto the artifacts. Yes, there are a lot of good artifact removal effects which can slow players down. But I would also point out a few things here too.
Mana dorks are a very common form of ramp in commander. Most green decks will run a bunch of them and there are even strategies (elf ball) which almost solely relies on them. But just as artifacts can be hated on, white has some of THE best creature removal in the game. This includes both single target but also mass removal, which can severely hamper your opponents with regards to ramp. And unlike green (who is the main comparison point here), white doesn't rely on mana dorks, leaving you relatively unaffected from a mana standpoint.
In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many. Sure, this doesn't stop everything, but it can shut down a lot of (especially green) big bad ones. We are seeing a lot of these printed in new sets, to the point where WotC are really trying to drive home the point that "this is what white does".
Ok, now circling back (And I will do this more than once) and picking up on my previous paragraph. On the topic of land ramp - white is very good at shutting down this. between all of the MLD, Balance type effects and library shutdown effects like Aven Mindcensor , white hating on green's land ramp is to green hating on artifacts (i.e. white's main ramp source). Again I reiterate, this is what white does. It has been made abundantly clear, since we have time and time again seen printing of cards that equalise the board, to take away other players' advantages. So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall.
On Graveyard Recursion
This topic follows on from the whole artifact removal thing. Yes, white is very strong in graveyard recursion. And just to touch on one of your points, even recently white got a bunch of graveyard recursion via cards like Daring Archaeologist and Restoration Specialist . Not repeatable sure, but still decent. And let's face it, any mono-white commander product is going to see Sun Titan reprinted. But back to the whole recusrion thing in general - while white is good at recursion, it's permanent based, not specifically land based. Yes, this overlaps (especially in the case of Sun Titan ) but here it's just a bit of nice value.
Land recursion is very much a green thing (I'm not even going to list the cards) and that makes sense. But for white, the recursion is generally symmetric if en masse. And again, this makes sense. White is good at wrecking stuff, so it's also good at bringing stuff back. But the point is that just because you wreck stuff and bring it back symmetrically doesn't mean that you can't exile a graveyard or two in the middle. Ok, but what's my concern with what you're recommending (both across the board but let's talk specifics)?
So, fundamentally I have no issues with the release of white cards which can return permanents from the graveyard to the battlefield, and fundamentally I have no issues with pairing these cards with any kind of fetchlands to ramp. As you mentioned, we have the new Sevinne's Reclamation and Brought Back alongside Sun Titan and Profound Journey .
Where I have issue in this case is not with the concept of having a cheaper spell that hits smaller stuff, but in this case your suggestion. Unforntunately, ther is a fine line between being able to be used early game for ramp purposes and just being broken. The card you proposed is similar in effect to Unearth , though it being able to hit any permanent for 2 mana (yes, even CMC 2 or less) is super good. That means that in legacy it can hit cards like Young Pyromancer , Snapcaster Mage (to get other spells even at sorcery, like itself for example), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Wasteland , etc. as well as potentially getting another permanent too. It just seems way too powerful. Sure, we could start tweaking the mana costs/effects but I think you would end up with effectively a functional reprint of Sevinne's Reclamation . And look, if that's what you're going for then that's fine. But that's the danger with working under the guise of returning permanents while focusing on lands.
As for the land sepcific recursion effect though, this just seems out of charater (and heavily moving into green's territory). Just because one card was printed, which again did a symmetric effect (almost seems good with Armageddon + Tormod's Crypt ...) does not mean that it's a shoo-in for more cards to be printed like that. Planar Birth was printed inthe same set as Catastrophe and it seems like those cards were designed to play well with each other. As for hitting land drops each turn, I have no issues with this (hell, I even mentioend it before) and to aid in the available "non-good fetch" fetches, you have Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds , Myriad Landscape , Grasslands , Flood Plain , Bant Panorama , Esper Panorama , Naya Panorama , Warped Landscape , Terminal Moraine and Thawing Glaciers . That's a pretty good collection of budget fetch effects that already exist. And between Scaretiller , Sun Titan , Sevinne's Reclamation and Crucible of Worlds (and in conjuction with other ramp) there are already options there.
Again, I will double down on my argument that if you look, these cards already exist and can be made to work together in a deck. Yes, Crucible of Worlds has ~$25 USD price tag (at the time of writing this) however that is not too exorbitant for a strong EDH card.
On Other Colours
I get that each colour has its strengths and weaknesses and that when you put all of them alongside each other there will always be a worst colour. But I don't think that's a bad thing. White is an incredibly powerful colour outside of commander, and as a second colour, white is still super good. But mono-white has to have a weakness. In this case, it's slow. Buat again, that's done for a reason - because white represents balance. White might be slow, but it will do a really good job of slowing you down with it. And again, I get that ther will be a group of players who don't want to play all of the stax cards for fear of getting other poeple's backs up. But what about the players who don't care about that? you've now just armed a bunch of people with ramp and draw with their existing supply of stax. Think of how much worse that will be.
Now onto red (since you touched on it) - yes, WotC have come up with a nice balance for red's card advantage (in that it matches red's ramp style) - momentary bursts of value. Rituals and exile - you use it or you lose it kind of effects, which makes sense (and which you pointed out). But it's all done within the bounds of the colour pie still. But everything about white screams that it's card advantage is making sure your opponents don't have cards.
While I believe that commander should be avaialble to anyone, there are some cold, hard facts: Some people can spend more than others, and, not everybody within a playgroup has the same budget.
The cards I listed before were budgetless and in most cases, the best of the best. And I understand that only a small portion of commander players actually own said cards. But there are always alternative cards at all budgets, they just may not be as desirable. But that's where my double standard comment came in, which is "if you want to play a colour that doens't have good ramp, but still want the best ramp then either pay the money to buy the good (read "expensive") stuff or deal with the fact that you can't/won't buy it." I don't think that's an unfair statement, and it's a slippery slope once you start pandering to it.
But again, if ther is a budget discrepency within a playgroup then I also don't think that it is WotC's responsiblity to fix it. This is something that the players have to own and is an entire discussion point in an of itself, so I will leave that there. But I think most players would agree with me on this.
On Other Players
Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it.
And don't get me wrong, I play both casual and competitive lists, I work full time and have funds available to afford nicer cards. A casual list for me sits in the $400-500 range. But before you discount my opinion becasue fo that, hear me out. I have looked at many, many, many lists on tapped out, ranging from <$100 to >$5000 and have learnt a lot over the years. Typically the things I notice is that the kinds of poeple who complain about a lack of XYZ have also employed a lot of bad deck-building practices (no, I'm not implying this on your lists). Really heavy mana curves, little ramp to begin with, high CMC ramp, lack of focused win conditions, all that good stuff. And I'm not saying that the decks are completely unplayable, but a lot of them are really clunky and slow. And I won't begrudge people for building those decks. But if your average CMC is 4.5 and then you're complaining that your deck is slow, that's becasue of the card choices you made. However bad deckbuilding is not WotC's fault.
So compared to those poeple, I will be a bit arrogant and say I undstand balance better than them, yes. But, and more importantly, so does WotC - because they seem to be printing more stax cards for white as sets come out, but not more ramp and card advantage which would fix the non-problem.