Darkslick Shores enters the battlefield tapped unless you control two or fewer lands.
Tap: Add U or B to your mana pool.
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Darkslick Shores Discussion
12 hours ago
isnt Darkslick Shores just better than drowned catacomb, because lets be honest if you see more than 4 lands you probably have already lost
1 day ago
Hello Chasmolinker thanks for your commenti played with Darksteel Citadel a time ago, and dont know exactly i cut it, but its a good move and scape from mass removal, will try to back to it. I played with Negate too in last build, but its feel some akward do not you think ? or what to cut to put it ? i always think Darkslick Shores can be slow if dont are in open hand, Sunken Hollow is just a target for Deltas, but the cicle can be tested
1 day ago
Have you tried Darksteel Citadel to give tezzeret a -1 target on an empty board? Also Darkslick Shores would help. You need a swamp early to get the deck going. Some countermagic would be good too. Remand or Mana Leak should do. Cut Sunken Hollow for the new cycle land Fetid Pools.
3 days ago
Now on with the answears: Shriekhorn is a bad card but does what we need: being an extra mill spell, being a one mana play and so on; I've tried to cut it several times for anything else (like removals..) only for getting to the conclusion that I wrote (and I think that is a firm one): we cannot go lower than this in mill spell department because if we do so we really open ourselves to lose the game by ourselves; and we can afford to play extra mill spells only in the 1-mana slot. Thankfully it is effective enough, and I don't recommend touching it.
Your first 20 lands are practically untouchable. Fetid Pools would be the 21th. But at that point I would play Darkslick Shores because entering untapped (even if sometimes only) is more valuable than cycling at 2 mana half of the games you play against grindy decks.
Shelldock Isle despite entering tapped is astonishingly good: in order to win this deck need to cast around 5 big mill spells - those are Glimpse the Unthinkable, Breaking / Entering, Mind Funeral, Archive Trap, an early Mesmeric Orb possibly with fogs, an early Hedron Crab which survived late (Shriekhorn is not to be counted among them: it is mostly used to round up the count early, which is more important than defence or draw spells). Shelldock Isle entering tapped tally with the poverty in 1 mana early spells, and it is an important gear for casting one of the late mill spells (the first 4 ones of the list above - that is 16 cards!) so that it actually can be counted among them (so that we have a total of 7*4=28 big mill spells, 8 of which good only early and 4 of which good only late). In conclusion, it is too much important for our aim of winning on turn 5 to be cut.
And if with Shelldock Isle you don't hit a late mill spell you could choose a fog, which is equally good against aggro, or a Visions of Beyond which, even if it is always worse than the alternatives in this case, sometimes is still a worthy play even at 3 mana total.
1 week ago
At their worst, Fastlands operate like Shard/Wedge lands, and don't slow you down a turn with bounce lands. At their best you've a dual land early on. The Pain Lands are usually just great for any multi-coloured Deck.
Tarnished Citadel bolts you, but it's worth it if you're really in need of the colour.
1 week ago
So if I were to go say -2 Thought Scour +2 Serum Visions, -2 Darkslick Shores +2 Creeping Tar Pit, -1 Tasigur and Gurmag +2 Spell Snare, and like -1 Terminate +1 other hard counter of some sort, would that be better? I'm just trying to get the mainboard figured out first.
On another note, I tested it tonight and had a lot of fun with it. Managing so many delve creatures wasn't super hard as games went late and I needed less mana held up allowing me to pump more lands into the guys. I still need practice delving and optimizing Tasigur's ability...
3 weeks ago
From the start, let me establish that my recommendations are complete "competitive player" based. So I am talking strictly from a position of strengthening this list so it has a better chance of top 4/8 for prizes in an LGS. if they offer prize support, I would use it to further enhance the deck list. Now, there are a lot of factors I cannot account for, Meta, LGS, and that sort of thing. The suggestions I make here are merely observations based on my experience and play style.
Off the bat, there is nothing wrong with "Kitchen Table" magic. The best games I've ever played have been around my kitchen table with friends and family. That being said, if you are keeping it casual, you can disregard the upgrades as merely the ramblings of a "Spike" player. I assure you, my only interest is in seeing you play a deck that you can both enjoy and have fun with. Winning with the deck is just icing on the cake.
Dismal Backwater is a good budget card, but it is slow. There are faster options to consider, and the lifegain is marginal at best. I've rarely said in games "Damn, if only I have one more life point, I could have won that." If I did, it was usually against RDW and that ilk of deck archetype. Dimir Aqueduct is another one of those good but slow cards. Yes, it does give you two mana, but it punishes you twice for that gift. Not only does it enter tapped, but you have to return a land to your hand as well. So you cannot play this turn one, it has come down minimally on turn two, which means that you are most likely not playing something on turn two, just to get this out (so best case scenario is Turn one, Island, Tap Island, play Hedron Crab, turn two, tap Island, play second Hedron Crab, then play tapped Dimir Aqueduct returning tapped Island back to your hand, but what are the odds of having all of those cards in your opening hand all the time?). That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I think we can agree that a turn where you aren't casting something with this deck, and just land cycling/fixing is "meh" at best, not a well spent turn. Later in game, when resources are higher, it is less obtrusive, but Modern is nicknamed "the Four Turn Format" for a reason, so by turn 3 or 4, you ideally should have a clear path to victory, or be setting up to win. Of course, this applies far more in a competitive setting, not a kitchen table setting. Again, my position on Dimir Aqueduct is that it is a good card, but there are clearly better choices.
As to why I personally would choose Evolving Wilds over Dimir Aqueduct, I can control the nature of the fetch (ie: which color I need most), I'm not losing a land drop (I didn't have to return something to my hand), and if timed right, I can benefit from a double Hedron Crab trigger. Mathematically, I feel as though Evolving Wilds brings more to that table in the long run than Dimir Aqueduct, however, we are crunching numbers and talking about small differences in comparison to the non-budget counterpart of Polluted Deltas, Watery Graves, and Darkslick Shores. I get what you are saying, and you can make an argument for either, I am just stating my case for the choice I would make. Both are fine choices, but I would go the route I outlined above.
With regard to Nephalia Drownyard, it has its place. I think it is good mana sink when you are out of cards or need that last little bit of mill, but again, while it is good, I personally feel there are better choices.
With regard to Turbo Mill style decks, you are basically going full tilt kamikaze on your opponent with minimal regard for your life total. Who cares if you are at 1 life when you mill your opponent's last card. You still won once you pass the turn. The equation to keep in mind for Mill vs Everything is this. You are at 20 life (actual life points) and they are at 60 life (the size of their library, if it is higher, that makes it even worse). So you are already behind the curve, so you need to spend resources on compensating for the difference in life totals, so you should care less about attacking your opponent's life total, but rather, spending every resource (life and mana) that you can to put all of those cards into their graveyard as fast as you can. This is the biggest issue with Mill, that 20/60 life total difference. A lot of folks see it as an impossibly unfair difference, but if you hyper focus and mill and do nothing else, you find that you can close that gap just fine. This is what sets mill players apart from everyone else.
This is why I always recommend a deck that is less responsive in archetype (ie Turbo Fog Mill, Counterspell Mill, Planeswalker Mill, and Mill/Kill) in favor of a deck that is laser focused on making your opponent dump chunks of their library into the graveyard like trash.
I hope that this post offers you some insight on my "spike-ish" recommendations and helps you figure out what kind of Mill player you want to aspire to be. There is no wrong answer. As long as you have fun, then you are already winning at Magic; and that is more than most Modern players can say, so keep that in mind my friend.
3 weeks ago
This build is interesting, but to be honest, it feels a tad bit erratic. By that, I mean that it feels like you opted to skip play sets of cards for unpredictability, but in doing so, you lose consistency. There is nothing wrong with doing that, but your deck will not be as consistent, meaning that the results you have will be hard to document and theory craft with. For me, that type of build is better suited for a Mill style EDH deck.
Now, I get the impression that you are working with a tight budget, and you want to maintain that. There is nothing wrong with budget builds, but there are a number of ways to make yourself more effective. Starting with the land base:
Polluted Deltas are ideal, but they are pricey at $17-$20 a pop right now. If you are going to skip them because of cost, it is worth looking into a playset of Watery Graves as they are $8-$10 a pop, so about half the cost of the Deltas, but they give you that all important color fixing so you always have the right color, and since you can choose to bring it in tapped or not, you can choose as needed. Later, if you upgrade to the Polluted Deltas, you will have the Watery Graves already, which are fetchable with the Deltas.
Darkslick Shores are a great mana fixer as well, but they are the same cost as Watery Graves right now. If these are out of your price range, then it might be worth considering the Sunken Hollows and Choked Estuarys both of which are cheap right now since they are in standard and we are in a lull between set releases.
I recommend cutting the Dimir Aqueduct and Dismal Backwaters. While they are cheaper, they both slow you down, even more so. I also could argue a reason to cut Nephalia Drownyard, but I get why you have it in here. It's a great mana dump when you have nothing else to spend it on, but I personally think you have better options.
4x Sunken Hollow $2-$3 each
4x Choked Estuary $1.50-$3 each
4x Evolving Wilds (A nice alternative for the Deltas for Hedron procs).
2x Shelldock Isle $4-$5 (If you didn't read my comments on this, please do so).
2x Ghost Quarter $0.75-$1.50
Total Landbase Costs: $25-$35 depending on how well you shop around or trade.
From your list, I get the sense you are going for Mill/Kill or Turbo Mill, both are great options, but if you focus on one, you will have a higher success rate and more consistency with your deck.
Jace's Phantasm is an amazing addition as part of the Mill/Kill strategy. This creature can damn near win you games on its own by beating face. The only downside is that is falls to removal, and many decks run a removal suite based on their colors. if they are in white, Path to Exile, if they are in black, Dismember, Fatal Push, Victim of Night, Go for the Throat, etc, etc (black has a literal ton of removal). Red uses direct damage, so a Lightning Bolt (or similar spell) to the face before it gets bigger will kill it. You get the general idea. If it sticks and goes unmolested, it will do work for you.
Hedron Crab is so good he doesn't even need to do anything but sit there and look pretty. Plus he is a chump blocker if necessary.
The rest of the creatures just aren't cost effective for what they do if you want to be competitive.
If you are going to do the Mill thing, you need to reorganize your spell suite. I will avoid the obvious inclusion of Glimpse the Unthinkable. If you shop around, you can find a great deal on them, I bought two sets on eBay for $20 a piece. Just be patience and shop around.
4x Tome Scour - 1 mana, mill 5, works perfectly here.
4x Mind Sculpt - 2 mana, mill 7. Very efficient.
4x Breaking because 2 mana, mill 8 helps.
2-3x Mind Funeral On average, I hit 8-12 cards, which is nice for only 3 mana, even better against decks with less than 20 lands (looking at you Affinity/Robots, RDW).
The rest of the slots are flexible. You could add in draw and counterspell. You could add in walkers Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is a beast against creature decks. you could splash green for Fog effects. But the above landbase and the mill suite I suggested should be your baseline shell as it gives you a lot of cheaper, efficient mill and mana that isn't slow.
I hope these suggestions and this feedback really helps you out. I know Mill isn't the tier one deck that everyone wants to play, but it is a lot of fun, and can be quite the headache for those foolish enough to underestimate it. I wish you the best of luck sir!