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Each player chooses a creature type. Each player returns all creature cards of a type chosen this way from his or her graveyard to the battlefield.
Patriarch's Bidding Discussion
1 day ago
SideBae This is some great advice! I appreciate all the help!
I like your thoughts on 2 mana rocks as opposed to 3 mana rocks. I'll be making a change there to increase the deck's speed.
You make a really good point about Approach of the Second Sun that I haven't thought about before. I'll most likely be cutting that in favor of another card that will help me with my deck's plan.
My budget doesn't really allow for the fast fetches but I didn't even know about the slow fetches! I'll be including some of those for sure. City of Brass , Mana Confluence , and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth are some great suggestions too, I'll find room for them. When it comes to the land count, I'll try playing with different amounts, as I have some other decks with similar curve and a lower land count that can screw me sometimes.
I agree with your thoughts on card advantage, it's definitely very important. I've heard Varina, Lich Queen can produce a lot of card draw on her own, so I went a little light on the cards for that. After some playtesting I'll be able to see if I need to find some room for more card draw spells. One card in particular I was considering was Frantic Search , but I also like your suggestions a lot.
I agree that tutors are great cards, but I tried to limit myself with how many I was using when building this deck. In the past I've had decks with lots of tutors, and I found that it made my games always play the same. This time I wanted to try to cut down on that so I can see more of my deck and try to win with the tools available in the moment. This may also change after some playtesting too!
The Liliana's are great, Liliana, the Last Hope is a little out of my budget at the moment, but I'd love to find room for the other two.
I've definitely got my eye on Damnation and Toxic Deluge , I'd like to pick those up when I'm able to. My main reason for running the Anguished Unmaking and Utter End is the versatility they have. Any nonland permanent is really strong, and an exile is also great, due to the amount of graveyard-heavy decks in my playgroup. Another big reason for including them is to deal with problem cards that might be hard to deal with otherwise, such as Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void . These cards can show up pretty often in my group, and I'm worried their effects would completely shut off my deck. But again, I'll learn more once I playtest.
I wanted to include some more counter magic, but my downfall in deck building is always deciding what to cut. There's always too many things I want to include in the deck, and nothing I want to cut. Any suggestions to help with this?
I do have access to both Narset, Parter of Veils and Ashiok, Dream Render , and I was heavily considering playing Ashiok in the early stages of deck building. I'll be taking another look at those cards.
Patriarch's Bidding is definitely on my list of cards to eventually get, I can imagine how strong it would be in a deck like this. I hadn't thought of Living Death 's interaction with Wonder , hopefully that won't screw me up too often!
Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate all the suggestions!
2 days ago
My first suggestion involves your artifact ramp. Dimir Signet and Orzhov Signet are worse than Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Hierarchy in the majority of situations, mainly because they don't need mana to begin activating. Talisman of Progress is also worth considering, though I'm assuming blue and white are your lesser colors. In that vein, I suggest cutting Chromatic Lantern for another piece of two-mana artifact ramp. In my experience, there is a big difference between 2 and 3 mana rocks in EDH, and anything you can do to increase your deck's speed will be a good thing.
Considering the win conditions: I think Approach of the Second Sun is superfluous. In my experience, zombie decks are perfectly happy just trying to get away with the aggro win condition, though the Gravecrawler loops are certainly an interesting second. The problem with Approach of the Second Sun is that it is not good by itself; generally, you want to run combo pieces that also serve some utility even without the combo. (For example, this is why I hate the Isochron Scepter in my Kess, Dissident Mage list.) Drawing it in your opener or when you don't have the mana to cast it leaves it essentially dead, and I think the aggro or Gravecrawler plans are just better.
Once you hit three colors, mana base becomes extremely important. City of Brass and Mana Confluence are excellent cards, and I've had excellent luck with them. Ideally, you'd run fetch lands like Polluted Delta and Misty Rainforest as a sort of 'additional dual land,' but these can be very pricy. If that's an issue, I advise slow fetches like Bad River , Flood Plain , Rocky Tar Pit and Grasslands . Cavern of Souls is an expensive card, though it is excellent in any tribal deck -- if you have access to it, you should run it. Unclaimed Territory is another thing to consider, as is running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of one of your basic Swamp s. I also think you're running a few too many lands. Thirty-three is generally my upper limit, and since your curve is so high, I think that's about what you'd want. Thirty-five is too many.
I like that you're running zombie lords. Though anthem effects do greatly reduce the synergy of Gravecrawler with Skullclamp , I think their bonus to the aggro plan is high enough to justify their inclusion. In that vein, Lord of the Undead and Zombie Master are worth considering.
Card advantage decides most EDH games -- for example, yesterday I had someone concede not because I had pressure on the board, but because I was drawing five more cards than them a turn. Though this may have been a premature concession, it does illustrate my point. Thus, I highly recommend running cards like Graveborn Muse , Phyrexian Arena , Painful Truths , Chart a Course , Slate of Ancestry , Glimmer of Genius , Pulse of the Grid , Night's Whisper , Notion Thief , Thirst for Knowledge and/or Windfall . Similarly, cantrips like Ponder and Preordain are almost auto-includes in a blue list. Brainstorm 's efficacy is dependent on the number of shuffle effects you run, though if you choose to include fetches (slow or otherwise), I highly advise it. Many of these cards involve paying life; if life becomes an issue, try Whip of Erebos or a non-lethal Exsanguinate in addition to your Gray Merchant of Asphodel .
Tutors are good cards. I'm a fan of Entomb in addition to your Buried Alive , as it gets Gravecrawler in the yard for your combo and, if you pair it with reanimation like Reanimate , Animate Dead or the Victimize / Stitch Together you already run, it allows you to cheat in fatties. Grave Titan and Massacre Wurm are two of my favorite reanimation targets, but they're both around $20 these days. Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are the gold standard for black tutors, but these can also be inaccessible because of their price. Diabolic Tutor is a fine substitute, and I've had good success with Lim-Dul's Vault .
Liliana is also a good zombie-include, be it for flavor or for the power she offers. Liliana, Death's Majesty is great in zombie decks and is pretty affordable; Liliana, Dreadhorde General has been dropping in price recently and is also great. Depending on your playgroup's meta, Liliana, the Last Hope may be a powerhouse, though she is $40 these days.
Generally in EDH, one-for-ones are not where you want to be. There are usually three opponents, so on average you'll be facing 3x as many cards as you have. Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are good cards, but they are not as good in EDH as they'd be in 1v1 formats. Supreme Verdict and Merciless Eviction , which I see you're running, are better. Might I suggest Damnation , Wrath of God , and/or Toxic Deluge ? You may want to lean toward black board-wipes, as this is already where your mana will be when casting zombies. An overloaded Cyclonic Rift is also great, especially if paired with the aforementioned Windfall .
Perpetual Timepiece is a cool include. Consider Cephalid Vandal . Because you're not running Call to the Grave (which I think is overrated anyways), there is little to no cost of running non-zombie creatures in your deck. I think Cephalid Vandal is another good way of trying to keep your deck churning with self-mill.
Another thing that takes good EDH decks to the next level is counter magic. I see you're running Counterspell , which is good, but you should consider running at least three to four other counter spells as well. Force of Will , Mana Drain and Pact of Negation are all good if you want to sell a kidney. If you're a slightly more reasonable player, cards like Narset's Reversal , Negate / Countersquall / Dovin's Veto , Swan Song , Disallow , Arcane Denial and Archmage's Charm are also worth considering.
Depending on your meta (and your personal level of sadism), Narset, Parter of Veils and Ashiok, Dream Render should be considered. Turning off tutors and extra-draws with asymmetrical effects is brutal. Personally, I don't think those two cards should ever have been printed, but what the hell -- they're here, so we might as well use them.
Patriarch's Bidding is a good way for a tribal deck to recover after a board-wipe, and Living Death is just good for black creature decks in general. Living Death is a sort of nonbo with Wonder , but that may be worth the trouble; play-testing will iron that issue out.
Good luck man!
2 weeks ago
LordBlackblade I absolutely agree with Edgar Markov being quite the glass cannon deck,especially when your creatures get wiped that is why I suggested Austere Command and Merciless Eviction . As they are modal and you can choose to not wipe your own creatures. Also if you find yourself blown out alot by a boardwipe and you did not have teferi's protection or Boros charm available I would strongly recommend playing Living Death and Patriarch's Bidding . I found that once I included these cards a boardwipe was not much of a setback. I also have a lengthy piece on many of the other very practical and powerful things you can do specifically with living death within my own list you are more than welcome to check out.
2 weeks ago
Yeah, between the $$$ for Gaea's Cradle and our heavy rainbow mana requirements/lowered CMC, it doesn't seem worth it here and would often come down producing 0 mana early game. Curious to hear from you if you like Noxious Revival outside of the Greater Good and Patriarch's Bidding package. I mean, good cards are good, but I usually sandbag it for that line (double mass reanimation after digging through half/the entire deck) vs playing it for general utility, which is probably a mistake.
2 weeks ago
And yes, we only really have access to 2x playable 2CMC land ramp spells, so I'd recommend Mystical Tutor for that spot vs Worldly. Sometimes you absolutely need a board wipe, draw spell, to chain into a Demonic Tutor or Vampiric Tutor , or to snag a Patriarch's Bidding or Noxious Revival , if not a Cyclonic Rift or Stubborn Denial , and the flexibility with Mystical is so much better than Worldly.
And my point about curve/vanillas is that I at least feel as though I was personally evaluating them improperly or sub-optimally, in the interest of individual slot optimization but at the expense of an optimized value engine for draw/token generation; for instance, a lot of ETB or attack triggers care very much only about 1. whether a dragon specifically is ETB'ing or attacking or if 2. a creature with power 4 or greater is ETB'ing. I think you'll see with Markov that curve/board presence/getting your value engine running is just as important as having stronger effects/abilities stapled to creatures. Jund is more historically toolbox'y than Mardu can be, so a fresh perspective w/ that deck, which is inherently faster than this one, might help. But I don't think it is all one (engine/vanilla) or the other (toolbox), but a mix favoring the latter (though not exclusively). But this is of course just my current thinking and may change after testing . . . and maybe it is arising from a personal desire to start winning more by Dragon'ing them out vs Jund'ing them out! Good luck with the Markov deck; he feels a little more solved to me but curious if you break any new synergies or combos there.
2 weeks ago
I think, overall, the core balance of ramp/draw/dragons is feeling good, but yeah, certain dragon slots should be re-evaluated w/ new sets/meta shifts every so often. Any time I've been feeling "I don't really want to see this" with a dragon, I'm making note of which one and why.
As to Cultivate in particular, I cut it awhile back and haven't missed it. Our ramp and fixing is fine without it; we're only running 5x basics; the ramp package is diverse enough with better 3CMC payoffs, etc. I really just want 2CMC land ramp.
I'm also pulling apart a Teferi (and then Urza) deck at the moment, so am testing with Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox from that deck, as previously discussed, and that kind of also pulls away from needing 3CMC ramp slots. After some adjustments, I have my average CMC down to 2.73 . . . but reevaluating the whole Greater Good plan. It's often great value and can set up a backup combo, but has pretty frequently just been a dead draw depending on board states. Without Patriarch's Bidding , draw 4 and discard 3 for most of our creatures is . . . fine, but not amazing, and can set you up for a brutal graveyard exile b/c it is so telegraphed.
Most of the time I've been winning games via "go wide"/combat, rather than the outright combos, so I'm treating the Thunderbreak Regent and Glorybringer slot as a flex one and looking again at Verix Bladewing , solely for how the flexibility can play well once we have an engine going. With the right cards in play, it does more than it seems for one card, mainly for the relevance with early power (draw triggers), "dragons matter" triggers. I still think Broodmate Dragon isn't worth consideration, but the flexibility (early development into Dragon Matters payoffs or later game doubling those payoffs for cheap) is the key here and something I'd undervalued previously. Sometimes a 4/4 flyer for 3CMC or even 1CMC is good enough; as overall non-dragon card quality has increased, the pressure to have every dragon do a cool toolbox thing has lessened a bit vs curve and board presence/flexibility considerations, at least for me.
1 month ago
Not a problem! Off the top of my head, I would go with the ones I suggested. This one is more of a personal preference, but I have Sheoldred, Whispering One in my deck as well. She may be high drop, but once you get her out, your graveyard becomes much more reliable. You might wanna look into Patriarch's Bidding too. Im guessing your commander is Scion of the Ur-Dragon ?
1 month ago
Been meaning to build an Esper zombie list since Varina was spoiled. Your deck looks solid. 2 suggestions:
Cut Approach of the Second Sun and add Patriarch's Bidding
Cut Logic Knot and add Harsh Mercy
Patriarch's Bidding occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%