For each creature, its controller sacrifices it unless he or she pays X life.
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|Avacyn Restored (AVR)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Killing Wave occurrence in decks from the last year
Latest Decks as Commander
Killing Wave Discussion
1 month ago
You want to be left alone until you can cast your angels. Cards like Thalia, Heretic Cathar & Kambal, Consul of Allocation can help while the other players are going to hate you more. Making it a little harder in the mid/late game. I would defiantly skip Thalia, Heretic Cathar for that reason. Kambal, Consul of Allocation can at least deal damage and gain your life.
Lives are a resource for sure. Just watch out with Vona, Butcher of Magan that he will not suck you dry. That is a woman's job XD.
Killing Wave you want to cast for x is high. Do really want to pay that much life for all your creatures? I would skip this and play a real board wipe.
I think that you will not use Obzedat's Aid very well. You can get back an artifact (mostly ramp in your case) == bad. You can get back a planeswalker (if they got it away once, they can it again if you spent your turn on returning it) == (in my opinion) bad. You can get an enchantment back == good (in some cases). Most of the enchantment won't reach the graveyard. But it can good. You can get back a creature == good for less mana. There are a lot of better regeneration spells. They can be used more or for less.
That is why I would suggest not to play Obzedat's Aid. It is not mana efficient enough versus versatility.
Your creatures will not always be the biggest on the table. But why do you use Ethereal Absolution instead of the cheaper options? Glorious Anthem, Always Watching, Commander's Insignia, Force of Virtue or Spear of Heliod. Graveyard hate is a benefit. But I think you can spend your mana better than that.
True Conviction is good but watch that one. Ask yourself "Do I want to play it? Or do I prefer something else? When is this good and when is it bad?". I think that it is bad in most cases and too late when you need it.
I understand that you want the lifegain and ping from Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord. But know that the -x you can use it on 9 creatures (for now) on the turn it enters the game. Also, remember that the lifegain is only for during your turn. Is it worth it?
I don't think that Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath can give you a lot of value. It can be me but I don't like this card.
Why Elspeth, Sun's Champion? You get tokens for 6 mana or destroy all your creatures and some of the opponent creatures. Is that worth it? Or do you play it because you have it lying around?
For Aetherflux Reservoir you probably will never be high enough with this on the board. You don't cast a lot of spells in a turn so you must be happy if you gain 3 lives in a round from it. This is not the deck for it.
Moonlight Bargain is 5 mana + 10 lives for draw 5. Promise of Power is the better version of it. It is on sorcery speed, but cost 5 lives less and you can also get a big beater from it if you pay extra.
For now I think that you are not using enough instant speed tricks that require you to hold up mana. That makes that when you hold up mana for Batwing Brume there is a big chance that you don't need it now and want to cast it later instead. Making you not spend some mana in the round. I would skip this card.
If I look at the curve then I would think about playing 36/37/38 lands. You need a lot of mana for your creatures and you miss green to ramp well. You can use cards like Hagra Mauling Flip & Ondu Inversion Flip to make it a little easier.
3 months ago
Just wondering, do you want to have a subtheme of giving opponents choices? I see you have fact or fiction but also stuff like Temporal Extortion, Killing Wave, Pain's Reward, Do or Die, Curse of the Cabal, Desecration Demon, Coercive Portal etc.
3 months ago
5 months ago
I've been absent from the topic for a while, I find it best to let the thoughts at the time of writing settle down and then revisit with a fresh mind.
Gidgetimer First of all I don't agree about white's lack of card draw in the Commander format is a content creator conjured issue. Content creators are just a very broad place I can refer to as a common platform where people share their beliefs. And I wanted to not only resort to the anecdotal experiences of me and my play group. Although for reference, most players in my play group agrees that white is the weakest singular color in Commander and one of those reasons is lack of card draw.
It may be a slight miscommunication but the thread could easily be about card advantage and not specifically card draw. I've made several of the suggestions in the OP not be direct card draw but rather an ability to access more card resources (like through the graveyard). So feel free to post ideas about mechanics that enables card advantage but not strictly through card draw.
This got rather lengthy Show
One of the major problems I find in white's card advantage pool is that white doesn't use many mechanics that effectively enables alternative card advantages. I mentioned they don't do draw-discard, they don't self-mill, they don't discard their own hand or in pretty much any capacity put their own cards into other zones other than the battlefield. From the battlefield they may put cards back into their hand if they die or self-bounce or flicker. They do have a selection of cards that resurrects permanents from the graveyard. However in recent times this has mainly been reduced to target low CMC permanents and their unconditional resurrections costs 4+ CMC, first of all that hardly cheats the mana cost and often it's a 1-for-1 trade, so no card advantage and no inherent mana value. White usually has to hard cast their big stuff to put them on the field and THEN it has to die and THEN they can use their recursion effects to get mana value. It's very clunky.
You point to the fact that white likes to equalize the board, mostly through board wipes. Although black seems to do the job just as well or better with Toxic Deluge, Mutilate, Languish, Black Sun's Zenith, Killing Wave, or Damnation. Most of these working around indestructible which can be a big factor if the opponent run cards like Heroic Intervention or one of the variants.
Red has cards like Blasphemous Act or Chain Reaction that works as damage board wipes. Blasphemous Act might even be considered better than white board wipes due to the mana reduction but generally white is better than red at wiping the board.
Green is kinda at a loss because their color doesn't really do board wipes and usually just resorts to taking out problems with Fight or the occasional Whirlwind, Hurricane, or the odd Ezuri's Predation. Green usually "fixes" the problem by applying enough pressure through their own creatures to require board wipes.
Blue has gained a lot of soft board wipes like Inundate, Evacuation, River's Rebuke and the all time favorite Cyclonic Rift. While not a final removal choice, the tempo and flexibility it provides can be more than enough for blue to pull ahead or win.
And after a board wipe, unless the white player has been planning or specifically played up to a board wipe, they lose a lot of resources themselves to a board wipe. But where other colors have access to good and fast card draw or equivalent, white is kinda stuck with the cards they have. They have a harder time rebuilding.
I wont go into the topic of mass land destruction, for one because of the social aspect of Commander and secondly because WotC haven't printed a new white mass LD spell since the early phases of the game - a point where the does and don'ts of the game was not quite established (looking especially at you Time Walk). There's one exception being Fall of the Thran which may just be a callback to the Urza block, and it has a soft-remedy. Cards that blows everything sky high usually includes "Nonland permanents" or in the cases of Elspeth Tirel and Scourglass exclude lands from their destruction.
This kinda sums up my point:
Overall I don't see white always coming out of a board wipe having equalized the card access/advantage. And even if that was true it reads like white is always behind up until the point that they equalize. That doesn't seem like a good position to be in.
7 months ago
Looking good! It's hard to screw up Muldrotha. Just go to value town. Your selection of creatures seems great!
That said, I would include a little more ramp. You are at eightish, which is where one usually wants to be in an EDH deck, but Muldrotha is usually kill-on-sight and 6 CMC. Try to use more things that permanently get a land into the field, which you already have a good amount of, like Cultivate and Kodama's Reach. Also, Wood Elves, Farhaven Elf, and Wayfarer's Bauble can be brought back for value--making them particularly good. Elvish Reclaimer is an interesting choice too.
The one-CMC dorks (Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves, Elvish Mystic, Boreal Druid, Arbor Elf, Wild Growth (and to a lesser extent Birds of Paradise and Utopia Sprawl) are all extremely good generally for their speed and chumping ability. If they get whacked or boardwiped they can slowly be brought back later. Getting Muldrotha out as soon as possible is very worth it. I don't run many mana dorks in my Muldrotha deck. I would run as few artifact rampers as possible, since you don't have to (as you run Green). Lands are always safest. Commander's Sphere being brought back for the card draw is nice--probably better than the Darksteel Ingot.
Good job on including Evolving Wilds. I would also add Terramorphic Expanse and maybe Myriad Landscape, Warped Landscape, and Blighted Woodland. The Mirage fetches (Bad River, et al) are decent but better with fetchable lands that have two colors--like Sunken Hollow and Watery Grave. Be sure to include Opulent Palace. Exotic Orchard, Grand Coliseum, and Command Tower are worth including too. On a budget, Vivid Marsh, Vivid Creek, and Vivid Grove are all good too. That all said, I still like running a healthy amount of Basic Lands for repeated fetching.
Protecting Muldrotha is important. Kaya's Ghostform is an excellent choice. I would also include a combination of Aspect of Mongoose, Canopy Cover, Alpha Authority, Diplomatic Immunity, Alexi's Cloak, Cloudform, Mystic Veil, Robe of Mirrors, Mirror Shield, Whispersilk Cloak, Neurok Stealthsuit, Mask of Avacyn, and Swiftfoot Boots. Usually the Enchantment Auras are considered weak because they can be two-for-one'd, but Muldrotha can bring them right back!
Personally, I believe every single EDH deck should run at least two boardwipes, and more if you can find the room. Sometimes it's just an emergency. On a budget in Sultai colors I like Crux of Fate and Gaze of Granite the most, followed by In Garruk's Wake (should have the mana!), Deadly Tempest, Decree of Pain, Extinction Event, Hex, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone, Killing Wave, Hythonia the Cruel, Life's Finale, Massacre Girl, Necromantic Selection, and Black Sun's Zenith. Pernicious Deed is great too.
Not everyone likes doing this, but I love running Enchantment-based removal in Muldrotha since it can be reused. Many have strong effects but still aren't worth it since they can be removed but Muldrotha gets rid of that drawback! Things like Corrupted Conscience, Inevitable End, Kasmina's Transmutation, Ichthyomorphosis, Lignify, and Lay Claim. I've actually had good luck with things an innocuous as Universal Solvent.
7 months ago
Deadpoo111,Ok, took out Key to the City, Killing Wave, Stitch Together, Too put in Essence Harvest, Obsidian Battle-Axe, Phyrexian Reclamation. Thanks for the suggestions, kinda wonder how my greven would fair against yours?
Guessing it comes down too if I hit you first for lethal, infect/commander damage or you keep removing my commander and take me out.
7 months ago
Deadpoo111, good point for the Killing Wave, as for the Stitch Together/Reanimate, Greven, Predator Captain is a removal magnet and there are a few high value creatures that can be reused, Might swap the stitch with a Phyrexian Reclamation for repeatable reanimation effects.
7 months ago
Chocomancer151: Hmm, I think there are a few cards that could be cut for it in the deck that just aren't as good (this is of course my opinion). Killing Wave seems very meh to me, it seems like you don't really need it with already high amount of removal you have, and lack of a way to make the huge amounts of mana this card wants. Stitch Together also seems out of place since it doesn't look like you fill up the graveyard super fast, nor do you really need reanimation. That's what I would suggest cutting for it.