|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||Mythic Rare|
|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations (AKHMPS)||None|
|From the Vault: Annihilation (V14)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Rare|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Masters Edition (MED)||Rare|
|Starter 1999 (S99)||Rare|
|Classic Sixth Edition (6ED)||Rare|
|Portal Second Age (P02)||Rare|
|Fifth Edition (5ED)||Rare|
|Fourth Edition (4ED)||Rare|
|4th Edition Foreign Black Border (4EDFBB)||Rare|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Rare|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Rare|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Rare|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Rare|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Destroy all lands.
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1 day ago
Any deck with an Angel of Jubilation gets a +1 for me (which leads me to +1 a lot of decks...) and I quite like builds like this! Though the decks cost is something like a teacher's yearly salary, I am sure I can trade a few lands from my vintage deck to get it (If I had a vintage deck ;-; ), but that is beside the point, I want to ask why the lack of Gemstone Caverns and Ancient Tomb in the list, they act as fast-paced ramp in mono-white, and I don't imagine you'd be opposed to the price, so that would seem pretty cool, Scroll Rack is another card I would suggest.
Scroll Rack gets a lot of hate outside of the Land Tax or Weathered Wayfarer synergy, but I still think it is powerful without them. It basically is a sorcery that doubles your hand worst case scenario for like or so. That is pretty good for mono-white.
Two things in the description, first, "Konwing" should be "knowing" I think, minor tid-bit (I am a Grammar Nazi!) and the second is pretty major... YOU LOAN A $7356 DECK TO NEW PLAYERS?!?... The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale will be bent when they shuffle it... That is like $500 down the drain if you try to sell it bent.
You make me cry.
SynergyBuild on Roon
1 day ago
That wins turn one, you fetch a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Phyrexian Delver, Pestermite, reanimate the Delver, to reanimate Kiki-Jiki, copy the delver, return the mite, Pestermite + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to win.
The deck Grixis Twin can win a a ton of ways turn one, so can flash-hulk, and food chain tazri, etc.
You honestly gave the second worst example for a deck to win fast with Teferi, it is a stax deck, Blood Pod is a tad bit worse, it is a beatdown stax build, so even a perfect god hand might not win with it turn one.
The stax lock you gave takes way longer than turn 4 to pull off, and infinite removal won't affect storm, so I don't know why you think that stops your opponents, Winter Orb can shut off a table on its own, that is what stax is, not a combo. Tangle Wire slows down a tables tempo a ton. Smokestack might take some time, but it works, Armageddon single-handely has won many a game. Stax is about those cards, not Acidic Slime.
Armageddon, Ravages of War, Catastrophe, Cataclysm, Ruination, Decree of Annihilation (cycle it), Sphere of Resistance, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thorn of Amethyst and the like are real stax cards. A 3 card combo that costs 11 mana (not including Palinchron's cost, it is kind of free.) isn't what turns a deck into a stax deck.
I said a control deck should run 30+ answers, none of the decks I mentions after were control, I apologize, that was on me. Control is a cEDH strategy, in the way it is in Tier 2-2.5, but I was only talking tier 1 lists, so it didn't fit there, I apologize again if I didn't mention that.
Yes, Roon is a tier 2.5 list on that tier list, I respect that entirely, you know the decklist that was mentioned there? Prison Can Roon Your Life, a stax deck, you know what cards it runs? Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vryn Wingmare, Thorn of Amethyst, Sphere of Resistance, and do you know what it doesn't run? Acidic Slime, Deadeye Navigator, Palinchron, cards like that.
Hokori and Seedborn Muse are good cards, I will give you that, honestly, my suggestions are one of two, turn the deck into Prison Can Roon Your Life, or something of similar competitiveness, like Bant Flash + Protean Hulk, or drop the "competitive" hub.
2 days ago
Two stax lists, a midrange list, and five combo lists, all are tier one, and this had not won a single game against them.
I understand that "Competitive is far more than rushing through the first turns for a win, it about gaining of hold of every advantage the deck offers with the given hand and draws." I started this by going over the three competitive archetypes, combo, stax and control, this lists offers about nothing to all three of those archetypes.
Your list runs no powerful combos, no stax locks, and extremely little control. Your commander synergies very little with the deck, and runs no ramp, minimal card draw, and bad countermagic.
Lets take a look at this deck considered competitive:
The best you can do is a Tome Scour, of course this won't mill the card on top, as they did it on your end step, but whatever.
Wow, you have all of 1 card that is actually castable turn 1. Half of your non-land cards require 4+ mana to cast. Many cEDH decks require 3 or less mana to cast every spell in their deck. You run all of 0 pieces of ramp, and no efficient way to win a game against those decks cosnidering even your commander won't cheat them out until turn 8 on your curve.
That is fine though, that means you aren't a fast-paced combo build, it doesn't mean you are not competitive though, stax and control can be great decks, that win very late in the game, turn 8-20 occasionally are when they win.
Stax decks attempt to shut out their combo opponents, you opponent over with Food Chain + Eternal Scourge trying to make infinite mana? Sphere of Safety shuts them down. Try to go off with turns in Narset, Enlightened Master, Stranglehold that. Trying to beat my face in with Blood Pod, Moat that. Then I will go off with infinite flying Pestermite tokens turn 13 with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker after all of you can't do anything.
What does this deck have in terms of stax?
Well, it has War Tax, which require mana that you cannot efficiently use against a Blood Pod deck, as they will stax you out before you them, Armageddon and Ravages of War are a blowout to this deck since you don't run artifact or creature mana. Propaganda would be a better choice, despite not being good enough a choice to make this deck competitive.
Opposition and Aphetto Grifter are decent options for token builds with tons of creatures, on the upkeep of an opponent's turn, you tap down all of their lands, it is pretty good, but as this deck can't do that before it will die, they aren't very good at a competitive table.
Frozen AEther this is truely the best stax you run, it can stop some Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combos, slows down other peoples mana in terms of dorks, rocks, and lands. It is also good as it doesn't affect you, if you could run a Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault or anything to make it come down before your opponents win, then it might be useful.
Fatespinner at least it is in your tribe, otherwise it would just occasionally deny 1 or 2 damage, any time a player needs combat, they win that turn. If they do, they you deny a card, and die immediately after, otherwise they take away a combat they wouldn't need anyway.
Orbs of Warding good card if it was a couple mana less, or you could control/stax a game to pull it off, otherwise it doesn't need to be here.
All in all, you aren't a stax deck, you run little to no good stax cards, the few you run that sees play require ramp.
Well, I guess this is a bad cEDH deck, or control. You run 21 spells that could be used as removal or countermagic, 10 that are 4 or less mana. This is awful for a control deck, unless they are Force of Will and just look like 5 mana, or you run a lot of ramp, sadly neither are true.
Again, this is not a bad deck, simply a casual one, not cEDH material. That is why your list isn't competitive, yes, I have run a spellshaper tribal Damia deck at state level play, not a tournament at state level, just a game at a grand prix side event. That deck isn't good, but it is fun. State level play means nothing. cEDH is actual competitive decks, unlike this one, playing at the upper echelons of the format, in fact, it is so different compared to normal EDH, that is it called cEDH.
This may be winning games where you play, but I have tested it, and I implore you to sit down next to some good stax and fast-paced combo players, against $5600 The Gitrog Monster builds, $6000 General Tazri builds, $5000 Teferi, Temporal Archmage builds, and tell me this deck will win a game against them.
You are wrong, not based on my own opinion, but with playtesting a deck that supposedly wins by turn 10 at the slowest, goldfishing it.
I have yet to see another deck in ALL OF CEDH, that goldfishes a win, or complete stax lock down past turn 6, ever.
Your deck is misleading by using the hub "competitive", all I want is for you to remove it.
2 days ago
I want to preface this with that I don't want to claim you, your deckbuilding skills, or this deck is bad. I simply want to make notice of the "competitive" tag you placed on this list. I would like to see it removed due to what I believe is a mistake and might be misleading.
Competitive lists are normally Tier 1 to 2.5 lists that tend to either:
A - Be able to race out wins with a tad bit of protects, turn 1-4 wins need to be regular.
B - Able able to set up a lock on the game like Trinisphere + Winter Orb + Tangle Wire, and pull a win through that lock.
C - Be able to counter or remove any combo win or stax lock your opponents drop before they win, and then pull a win yourself.
These three archetypes are "Combo", "Stax" and "Control" respectively. Occasionally decks do fit multiple archetypes and are a hybrid of them.
This deck cannot race between turns 1-4 with a lack of good ramp like Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and though you run a lot of good tutors, you have a clunky and expensive suite of combos, all of which have little synergy with your commander, and the rest of the deck. The list looks like a stax-combo hybrid, with a fair number of good hatebears and some good cards like Authority of the Consuls against kiki-combo, however you don't run tax effects like Sphere of Resistance, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Glowrider, Vryn Wingmare, Thorn of Amethyst along with a lack of good land destruction like Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, etc. leaves your deck lacking as a stax build too.
Since you can't effectively race or stax a game out, with the abundance of lifegain cards and useless cards like Virtus the Veiled you have a deck without enough answers to be control either.
Here are some lists that are considered Tier 1, the most competitive, for reference:
3 days ago
Hah! Love the Titania's Song, I thought I was the only one!
Decree of Annihilation doesn't trigger Ruric Thar, the Unbowed and is a cantrip Armageddon. Epicenter, Impending Disaster, Boom and Ruination are great ways to turn the table in your favor as well, with all of your dorks. Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem, and other tax effects to improve on the way the land destruction shuts off your opponents. Running more tutors for Magus of the Moon is also great, think Sylvan Tutor or Imperial Recruiter type effects.
3 days ago
I have seen it said before, but I want to question your win-condition as a deck under the "Competitive Hub".
Bruna, Light of Alabaster is a very good "pub-stomp" commander. I am sure you can understand why, it is really good at pumping out damage once you deck has the ramp and enchantments to pull it off. Good card draw or tutoring allows you to pump it up with 2-3 enchantents that get it to one-shot opponents. That wins in three turns!
I think I should break that down just a bit. You need 2-3 cards additional to the commander, and for the sake of arguement, I will say 2. Battle Mastery + Corrupted Conscience for example, given you only have a few other 2 card "combos" with you commander, this one is the cheapest. All together it would cost mana, but your commander really makes that mana and a combat step uninterrupted. Honestly, winning with 2 cards additional to the commander that costs 6 mana outside of green isn't great, but given you can tutor them up well, which you can to some extent as the cards you need are aura enchantments and you are in white.
Truely, this is wrong though. Intuition and Three Dreams are one-card combos with your commander, sadly your commander can't cheat their costs, so if we take Intuition with Bruna, Light of Alabaster, it costs 9 mana, and it one-shots a player per turn.
Per turn is the issue though. A 3 turn win (killing one opponents a turn) leads to 6 turns your opponents have to answer an unprotected body (no hexproof nor any indestructible type effects). 6 turns is forever in cEDH, and since you run so much of your deck as useless enchantments (outside of combat win), it is simply not likely you can counter everything your opponents through at you.
This is why I question your win-condition.
The thing is, a control deck isn't just trying to win. It needs an absurd amount of card draw and cheap answers to stop every attempt at dropping a stax lock or combo finisher. Every Dark Confidant, Trinisphere, and Food Chain needs a Swords to Plowshares, Chain of Vapor, and Swan Song respectively. You don't have the luxury of running just 20 answers for the 20 threats in each opponents deck, you need 60 answers for the 20 threats in each of 3 of your opponents deck. 60 cards that are simply answers won't do the trick either, you are drawing one card a turn, your opponents (collectively) draw 3 a turn. EDH is a game that every player is at a statistical disadvantage.
So run multple answers in each card Grasp of Fate all the Dark Confidant, Trinisphere, and Food Chain all at once. Windfall a new hand of answers, Timetwister back your answers, and draw a new hand. Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Opt, Impulse, Serum Visions and cantrip your way to the right answers for the situation at hand.
You actually have what I would normally say is the next point, prematurely answering threats. Armageddon can wipe a hand out of the game, if your opponents can's cast the cards in their hands, they might as well not have it. Cataclysm is similar, for obvious reasons, and so is Ravages of War, a card I would greatly recommend.
To get more value out of these effects, you need another tutor like Personal Tutor is a great way to find a land-swipe effect, I also suggest better card draw like Timetwister, Time Spiral, Manifold Insights, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, etc.
Cheap answers like Chain of Vapor, Fragmentize, Mental Misstep, Delay, Mindbreak Trap, Rapid Hybridization, Pongify, Into the Roil, Blink of an Eye, Grafdigger's Cage, and other such answers are the best thing to have a ton of. They are blowouts early-game, useful tempo boosts mid-game, and still relevent late game. Being able to have a card for every threat means spending more cards on ramping is unrealistic at best, but running a deck very low to the ground is incredibly useful, pretty much every cEDH control deck is either stax-hybrid control, or straight 1-2 mana answers, some sweepers, and 1-3 mana card draw.
To end all of this, I would recommend greatly changing this deck, or dropping the "Competitive" tag, it is misleading as-is.
I also want you to know, QKNARWHAL, that I mean no disrespect to you or your deck-building capabilities, I do not think that this deck is a bad deck, simply not competitive. A previous user, Podkomorka had showed similar thoughts to mine, yet did not explain them. Podkomorka also was not mentioned or responded to in further posts, which I hope will not be done to myself.
Thanks for reading! - SynergyBuild (I'll toss you an upvote on the way out)
3 days ago
I think you are missing the crucial card draw. I don't see many cards that add you card advantage in the early game. Also, I feel a couple extra turn cards wouldn't hurt with the ramp you possess in this deck.
Brainstorm, Ponder, Harmonize, Night's Whisper are some real efficient draw. Temur Ascendancy is also a utility draw piece I add if the deck has the colours and could draw me atleast 3 cards through out the game.
Also Ring of Three Wishes is a very good card in proliferate decks
I personally have a problem running less than 8 mana rocks as Armageddon is very much a played card in commander. Worn Powerstone, Commander's Sphere, Hedron Archive, Darksteel Ingot and Palladium Myr are guys I run any chance I have (granted most of these aren't that competitive, just great ramp)
Signets are also great mana fix that ramp you also.
Sylvan Scrying lets you look for any land card in your deck which I think is powerful considering some of the land in magic
4 days ago
Oh, it shimmer zur, the most competitive Zur list, he was mentioning that Zur would be a more competitive commander using Astral Slide, so I was just mentioning that if they wanted the most competitive Zur list, something like Zur Ad Nauseam Storm would be the way to go.
Crucible of Worlds is another card I don't think is nessecary, unless a lot of Armageddon effects are being run in your playgroup. You could use it with Cataclysm, and with a voltron commander it might work out.