|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters Edition II (ME2)||Rare|
|Portal Three Kingdoms (PTK)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Ravages of War
Destroy all lands.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (3)||Metaphisyk , Vasbear1 ,|
|Want (15)||KingMathoro , Vestrinex , wlbreda , ryuzaki32667 , macaroniman , avrgeboy123 , TAMA , Gypsyhatten , RoninH3RO , NexusYuber , N3M0 , Muglacious_NiceFaceToad , toastertree , Sh0wnW4V3 , Sulla20XX|
Ravages of War Discussion
2 weeks ago
I'm really liking this deck due to all the effort you've put into the primer and card choices.
However, considering that this deck has a few ways to "lock" the gamestate, what do you think about utilizing land destruction such as Armageddon and Ravages of War instead of a couple counterspells? The deck can run without lands if a mana producing sliver is on the battlefield, as well as with a few manarocks in play, and it seems that proactive approach could prove to be more effective when paired with counterspells, as opposed to counterspells only.
2 weeks ago
Really, it would be around tier 4 this build. I imagine a better version going with a more consistent stax plan that happens to run a few key enchantments, instead of this could even be tier 2.5, but the commander would be all but a major part of the deck.
If you want a real enchantment-based build, use Earthcraft and Squirrel Nest, drop the Enchanted Evening/Aura Thief, Starfield of Nyx, Sigil of the Empty Throne, and Solemnity/Phyrexian Unlife/Solemnity/Decree of Silence. You should run Altar of the Brood as support for both the earthcraft combo and Opalescence/Parallax Wave.
The other drops you should have are cards like Cultivate and Kodama's Reach, because they are bad cards and shouldn't be run in any non-landfall deck, Cleansing Meditation because it is bad, and Skyshroud Claim. Pendrell Mists is too much mana for this deck to handle, as is Omniscience, despite its power in some decks.
Leyline of Anticipation is weak for its mana cost, and is abd draw, only semi useful when in openning hand, but even then it isn't great.
Land Tax is a bad card, honestly unless you are monowhite or in a deck that benefits from discarding cards, it isn't worth it. The thinning is the best it does, and a card in your deck that thins only is trash. If it is used to help you hit land drops, your deck is either A: Not in need of land, or B: Awfully built or was mulliganned poorly.
Now the next part is on what to add. I talked about dropping around 27 cards, so there is some room. I would drop around 3 lands at least as well, which leaves us with a clean 30 cards to add.
Now, we'll add the cards I previously talked about, Altar of the Brood, Earthcraft, and Squirrel Nest. These help you win the game after we dropped a lot of your previous wincons. Greater Auramancy is also a card I prior suggested, and helps stop a Nature's Claim kill you. 26 cards left to go.
The next is to replace the lands we dropped. You want mana fast, so you can empty your hand, and use Tuvasa to draw more cards, aiming to hit a real enchantress or tutor for one. This means two things, more tutors, and more ramp.
Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Overgrowth, and Fertile Ground help benefit Earthcraft when used to make more mana on combo turn, especially with an Opalescence out. Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Lotus Petal allow the deck to get more mana faster as well. This leaves 16 cards.
Teferi's Protection, Swan Song, Flusterstorm, Seal Away, Ravages of War, Force of Will, Nature's Claim, Armageddon, and Cast Out are efficient pieces of interaction I would suggest. This leaves 4 cards.
Nature's Chosen is a card I have found success in, and suggest you try it too. Enchanting a Tuvasa makes it another land in essence, and can untap a Serra's Sanctum, it is under the radar, so pick it up before all of the Emmara, Soul of the Accord players find out about it. That is it!
After looking through, the following lands are must drops, as they aren't good in nearly any deck:
They don't have a place in this deck.
Similarly, you should optimize your deck to get your colors more on curve, fetchlands being a major part of that. Wooded Foothills, Flooded Strand, Polluted Delta, Misty Rainforest, Scalding Tarn, Verdant Catacombs, Arid Mesa, and Marsh Flats are the missing ones in your colors. You can use them to fetch the shock/dual lands for colors, or basics for Back to Basics/Earthcraft.
Wooded Bastion, Flooded Grove, and Yavimaya Hollow should be dropped as well to fit them, as well as Brushland for Razorverge Thicket, Adarkar Wastes for City of Brass, Hinterland Harbor for Mana Confluence, Glacial Fortress for Exotic Orchard, and one of each basic because you have too many lands.
That's it. That would actually be a tier 3 enchantress deck, and doesn't stoop to just playing Tuvasa for colors for a stax-combo deck, running no enchantments.
4 weeks ago
A few thoughts:
Urza's Ruinous Blast seems like a good fit for the deck since many of your non-land permanents are legendary. You can't cast it without a legendary creature or planeswalker, which can be a pain, but that shouldn't be too much of a hurdle for this deck.
Wrath of God, Day of Judgment, or Fumigate might be worth thinking about instead of Hallowed Burial. You might prefer creatures go to the graveyard so Yomiji can send the legendary ones back to your hand. (If you never find yourself wanting to wipe the board while you have your commander and another legendary creature, ignore this suggestion.)
Several of your Legendary creatures (including your commander) are quite expensive, so you might want Land Tax to ensure you have lands to play every turn. Sword of the Animist or artifact ramp like Marble Diamond, Mind Stone, Hedron Archive, or Dreamstone Hedron could also help here.
I'm not sure whether you want mass land disruption like Armageddon, Cataclysm, and Winter Orb. They can be effective at converting temporary advantage into a win, but the deck looks like it will play best when you have a lot of mana to cast your spells, and recast your legends if they die with your commander on the field. If you do, focus on effects that destroy or force the sacrifice of lands (Armageddon, Cataclysm, Magus of the Balance, Fall of the Thran, Ravages of War (though that last one is way too expensive because there weren't many printed)) instead of Winter Orb, and use Crucible of Worlds or legendary lands you can get back with your commander to break the symmetry. I'd recommend looking at Flagstones of Trokair, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai, Eiganjo Castle, Geier Reach Sanitarium, and maybe Hall of the Bandit Lord or Legion's Landing Flip. You might also want Dust Bowl in this case. I'm not sure you have enough density of legendary spells for Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper to be good, but it might be worth it.
I don't think Darksteel Forge is that useful here: you have useful artifacts, but not that many and you aren't super reliant on them.
There don't seem to very many activated abilities for Rings of Brighthearth to copy. You may not need that card here.
2 months ago
Astraxa was the list, it isn't super based on +1/+1 counters, but has cards like Anafenza, the Foremost, Scavenging Ooze, Dovin Baan (the ultimate is insane in stax), Tamiyo, Field Researcher, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, and Luminarch Ascension, all of which use Atraxa's proliferate ability, but her flying is used with fetching out Sword of Feast and Famine, which allows the deck to get around effects like Static Orb, Back to Basics, Winter Orb in the deck, and the list also runs a lot of creature based ramp, so it can get more mana than the opponents, by using effects like Sphere of Resistance, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Glowrider, Vryn Wingmare, Trinisphere, Armageddon, Null Rod, Thorn of Amethyst, Ravages of War, and Stony Silence to shut out all of their mana, and win the game!
SynergyBuild on Roon
3 months ago
That wins turn one, you fetch a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Phyrexian Delver, Pestermite, reanimate the Delver, to reanimate Kiki-Jiki, copy the delver, return the mite, Pestermite + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to win.
The deck Grixis Twin can win a a ton of ways turn one, so can flash-hulk, and food chain tazri, etc.
You honestly gave the second worst example for a deck to win fast with Teferi, it is a stax deck, Blood Pod is a tad bit worse, it is a beatdown stax build, so even a perfect god hand might not win with it turn one.
The stax lock you gave takes way longer than turn 4 to pull off, and infinite removal won't affect storm, so I don't know why you think that stops your opponents, Winter Orb can shut off a table on its own, that is what stax is, not a combo. Tangle Wire slows down a tables tempo a ton. Smokestack might take some time, but it works, Armageddon single-handely has won many a game. Stax is about those cards, not Acidic Slime.
Armageddon, Ravages of War, Catastrophe, Cataclysm, Ruination, Decree of Annihilation (cycle it), Sphere of Resistance, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thorn of Amethyst and the like are real stax cards. A 3 card combo that costs 11 mana (not including Palinchron's cost, it is kind of free.) isn't what turns a deck into a stax deck.
I said a control deck should run 30+ answers, none of the decks I mentions after were control, I apologize, that was on me. Control is a cEDH strategy, in the way it is in Tier 2-2.5, but I was only talking tier 1 lists, so it didn't fit there, I apologize again if I didn't mention that.
Yes, Roon is a tier 2.5 list on that tier list, I respect that entirely, you know the decklist that was mentioned there? Prison Can Roon Your Life, a stax deck, you know what cards it runs? Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vryn Wingmare, Thorn of Amethyst, Sphere of Resistance, and do you know what it doesn't run? Acidic Slime, Deadeye Navigator, Palinchron, cards like that.
Hokori and Seedborn Muse are good cards, I will give you that, honestly, my suggestions are one of two, turn the deck into Prison Can Roon Your Life, or something of similar competitiveness, like Bant Flash + Protean Hulk, or drop the "competitive" hub.
3 months ago
Two stax lists, a midrange list, and five combo lists, all are tier one, and this had not won a single game against them.
I understand that "Competitive is far more than rushing through the first turns for a win, it about gaining of hold of every advantage the deck offers with the given hand and draws." I started this by going over the three competitive archetypes, combo, stax and control, this lists offers about nothing to all three of those archetypes.
Your list runs no powerful combos, no stax locks, and extremely little control. Your commander synergies very little with the deck, and runs no ramp, minimal card draw, and bad countermagic.
Lets take a look at this deck considered competitive:
The best you can do is a Tome Scour, of course this won't mill the card on top, as they did it on your end step, but whatever.
Wow, you have all of 1 card that is actually castable turn 1. Half of your non-land cards require 4+ mana to cast. Many cEDH decks require 3 or less mana to cast every spell in their deck. You run all of 0 pieces of ramp, and no efficient way to win a game against those decks cosnidering even your commander won't cheat them out until turn 8 on your curve.
That is fine though, that means you aren't a fast-paced combo build, it doesn't mean you are not competitive though, stax and control can be great decks, that win very late in the game, turn 8-20 occasionally are when they win.
Stax decks attempt to shut out their combo opponents, you opponent over with Food Chain + Eternal Scourge trying to make infinite mana? Sphere of Safety shuts them down. Try to go off with turns in Narset, Enlightened Master, Stranglehold that. Trying to beat my face in with Blood Pod, Moat that. Then I will go off with infinite flying Pestermite tokens turn 13 with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker after all of you can't do anything.
What does this deck have in terms of stax?
Well, it has War Tax, which require mana that you cannot efficiently use against a Blood Pod deck, as they will stax you out before you them, Armageddon and Ravages of War are a blowout to this deck since you don't run artifact or creature mana. Propaganda would be a better choice, despite not being good enough a choice to make this deck competitive.
Opposition and Aphetto Grifter are decent options for token builds with tons of creatures, on the upkeep of an opponent's turn, you tap down all of their lands, it is pretty good, but as this deck can't do that before it will die, they aren't very good at a competitive table.
Frozen AEther this is truely the best stax you run, it can stop some Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combos, slows down other peoples mana in terms of dorks, rocks, and lands. It is also good as it doesn't affect you, if you could run a Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault or anything to make it come down before your opponents win, then it might be useful.
Fatespinner at least it is in your tribe, otherwise it would just occasionally deny 1 or 2 damage, any time a player needs combat, they win that turn. If they do, they you deny a card, and die immediately after, otherwise they take away a combat they wouldn't need anyway.
Orbs of Warding good card if it was a couple mana less, or you could control/stax a game to pull it off, otherwise it doesn't need to be here.
All in all, you aren't a stax deck, you run little to no good stax cards, the few you run that sees play require ramp.
Well, I guess this is a bad cEDH deck, or control. You run 21 spells that could be used as removal or countermagic, 10 that are 4 or less mana. This is awful for a control deck, unless they are Force of Will and just look like 5 mana, or you run a lot of ramp, sadly neither are true.
Again, this is not a bad deck, simply a casual one, not cEDH material. That is why your list isn't competitive, yes, I have run a spellshaper tribal Damia deck at state level play, not a tournament at state level, just a game at a grand prix side event. That deck isn't good, but it is fun. State level play means nothing. cEDH is actual competitive decks, unlike this one, playing at the upper echelons of the format, in fact, it is so different compared to normal EDH, that is it called cEDH.
This may be winning games where you play, but I have tested it, and I implore you to sit down next to some good stax and fast-paced combo players, against $5600 The Gitrog Monster builds, $6000 General Tazri builds, $5000 Teferi, Temporal Archmage builds, and tell me this deck will win a game against them.
You are wrong, not based on my own opinion, but with playtesting a deck that supposedly wins by turn 10 at the slowest, goldfishing it.
I have yet to see another deck in ALL OF CEDH, that goldfishes a win, or complete stax lock down past turn 6, ever.
Your deck is misleading by using the hub "competitive", all I want is for you to remove it.
3 months ago
I want to preface this with that I don't want to claim you, your deckbuilding skills, or this deck is bad. I simply want to make notice of the "competitive" tag you placed on this list. I would like to see it removed due to what I believe is a mistake and might be misleading.
Competitive lists are normally Tier 1 to 2.5 lists that tend to either:
A - Be able to race out wins with a tad bit of protects, turn 1-4 wins need to be regular.
B - Able able to set up a lock on the game like Trinisphere + Winter Orb + Tangle Wire, and pull a win through that lock.
C - Be able to counter or remove any combo win or stax lock your opponents drop before they win, and then pull a win yourself.
These three archetypes are "Combo", "Stax" and "Control" respectively. Occasionally decks do fit multiple archetypes and are a hybrid of them.
This deck cannot race between turns 1-4 with a lack of good ramp like Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and though you run a lot of good tutors, you have a clunky and expensive suite of combos, all of which have little synergy with your commander, and the rest of the deck. The list looks like a stax-combo hybrid, with a fair number of good hatebears and some good cards like Authority of the Consuls against kiki-combo, however you don't run tax effects like Sphere of Resistance, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Glowrider, Vryn Wingmare, Thorn of Amethyst along with a lack of good land destruction like Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, etc. leaves your deck lacking as a stax build too.
Since you can't effectively race or stax a game out, with the abundance of lifegain cards and useless cards like Virtus the Veiled you have a deck without enough answers to be control either.
Here are some lists that are considered Tier 1, the most competitive, for reference:
3 months ago
I have seen it said before, but I want to question your win-condition as a deck under the "Competitive Hub".
Bruna, Light of Alabaster is a very good "pub-stomp" commander. I am sure you can understand why, it is really good at pumping out damage once you deck has the ramp and enchantments to pull it off. Good card draw or tutoring allows you to pump it up with 2-3 enchantents that get it to one-shot opponents. That wins in three turns!
I think I should break that down just a bit. You need 2-3 cards additional to the commander, and for the sake of arguement, I will say 2. Battle Mastery + Corrupted Conscience for example, given you only have a few other 2 card "combos" with you commander, this one is the cheapest. All together it would cost mana, but your commander really makes that mana and a combat step uninterrupted. Honestly, winning with 2 cards additional to the commander that costs 6 mana outside of green isn't great, but given you can tutor them up well, which you can to some extent as the cards you need are aura enchantments and you are in white.
Truely, this is wrong though. Intuition and Three Dreams are one-card combos with your commander, sadly your commander can't cheat their costs, so if we take Intuition with Bruna, Light of Alabaster, it costs 9 mana, and it one-shots a player per turn.
Per turn is the issue though. A 3 turn win (killing one opponents a turn) leads to 6 turns your opponents have to answer an unprotected body (no hexproof nor any indestructible type effects). 6 turns is forever in cEDH, and since you run so much of your deck as useless enchantments (outside of combat win), it is simply not likely you can counter everything your opponents through at you.
This is why I question your win-condition.
The thing is, a control deck isn't just trying to win. It needs an absurd amount of card draw and cheap answers to stop every attempt at dropping a stax lock or combo finisher. Every Dark Confidant, Trinisphere, and Food Chain needs a Swords to Plowshares, Chain of Vapor, and Swan Song respectively. You don't have the luxury of running just 20 answers for the 20 threats in each opponents deck, you need 60 answers for the 20 threats in each of 3 of your opponents deck. 60 cards that are simply answers won't do the trick either, you are drawing one card a turn, your opponents (collectively) draw 3 a turn. EDH is a game that every player is at a statistical disadvantage.
So run multple answers in each card Grasp of Fate all the Dark Confidant, Trinisphere, and Food Chain all at once. Windfall a new hand of answers, Timetwister back your answers, and draw a new hand. Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Opt, Impulse, Serum Visions and cantrip your way to the right answers for the situation at hand.
You actually have what I would normally say is the next point, prematurely answering threats. Armageddon can wipe a hand out of the game, if your opponents can's cast the cards in their hands, they might as well not have it. Cataclysm is similar, for obvious reasons, and so is Ravages of War, a card I would greatly recommend.
To get more value out of these effects, you need another tutor like Personal Tutor is a great way to find a land-swipe effect, I also suggest better card draw like Timetwister, Time Spiral, Manifold Insights, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, etc.
Cheap answers like Chain of Vapor, Fragmentize, Mental Misstep, Delay, Mindbreak Trap, Rapid Hybridization, Pongify, Into the Roil, Blink of an Eye, Grafdigger's Cage, and other such answers are the best thing to have a ton of. They are blowouts early-game, useful tempo boosts mid-game, and still relevent late game. Being able to have a card for every threat means spending more cards on ramping is unrealistic at best, but running a deck very low to the ground is incredibly useful, pretty much every cEDH control deck is either stax-hybrid control, or straight 1-2 mana answers, some sweepers, and 1-3 mana card draw.
To end all of this, I would recommend greatly changing this deck, or dropping the "Competitive" tag, it is misleading as-is.
I also want you to know, QKNARWHAL, that I mean no disrespect to you or your deck-building capabilities, I do not think that this deck is a bad deck, simply not competitive. A previous user, Podkomorka had showed similar thoughts to mine, yet did not explain them. Podkomorka also was not mentioned or responded to in further posts, which I hope will not be done to myself.
Thanks for reading! - SynergyBuild (I'll toss you an upvote on the way out)