|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Battlebond (BBD)||Mythic Rare|
|Masters Edition III (ME3)||Rare|
|Battle Royale Box Set (BRB)||Uncommon|
|Fourth Edition (4ED)||Rare|
|4th Edition Foreign Black Border (4EDFBB)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
At the beginning of your upkeep, if an opponent controls more lands than you, you may search your library for up to three basic land cards, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Land Tax Discussion
3 days ago
so the way I see it you're actually quite close (33 basic lands means 25 basic lands brings you up to 82)
- Zephyr Sprite (basic 1 drop flyer, but a 1 drop flyer is good on its own)
- Wydwen, the Biting Gale (3/3 flyer with an ability that gives you bounce to save itself or add faerie casts)
- Wasp Lancer (3 mana faerie flyer, that's it)
- Vendilion Clique (ok, pricey but a good way to say no to an incoming problem)
- Thieving Sprite (another way to say no to an incoming threat)
- Silkbind Faerie (untap effects are very exploitable, although often rare)
- Silkbind Faerie (easy to be a 3/3 flying vigilance for 3)
- Ringskipper (this one is kinda mostly filler but could be obnoxious to get rid of)
- Quickling (ok I think this is a diamond in the rough, 2 mana, get a body AND save a faerie from impending doom)
- Oona's Gatewarden (i know defender BUT WITHER IS SUCH A GOOD MECHANIC)
- Nightveil Sprite (2 mana 1/2 flyer that lets you look at the top card of your library, with the option to toss)
- Mistbind Clique (forcing your opponent into an all out play can create quite the opening, timing it before the end of a phase limits their options on what they can do with all that mana)
- Metropolis Sprite (With anthems that ability could be nasty, especially since early game flyers are often going unblocked)
- Knacksaw Clique (I hate myself for suggesting this monster of a card but even if you aren't stealing their cards, your permanently removing them and that's just nasty)
- Faerie Vandal (drawing 2 cards in a turn isnt hard in blue, so in many cases it will get +1/+1 every turn)
- Faerie Mechanist (counts as an artifact AND sifts for more)
- Fae of Wishes (that adventure lets you pull solutions out of thin air)
- Eye Collector (1/1 with a decent ability)
- Brazen Borrower (again not budget but another great adventure)
- Faerie Guidemother (1 drop white with an ok adventure option)
- Phyrexian Metamorph (clone that can hit artifacts always good, especially in EDH)
- Glorious Anthem (aka the namesake for all anthems)
- Dictate of Heliod (double anthem with flash)
- Marshal's Anthem (but pricey mana wise but potent)
- Kindred Boon (not an anthem but...it's a bit slow but indestructible is nasty)
- Kindred Discovery (also not an anthem but CAAAAAARRRRD DRAW)
- All That Glitters (potent aura in your deck, slap it on Alela for quick win)
- Mirrormade (MORE CLOOOOOONESSS but for artifact or enchantment)
- Bident of Thassa (caaaaaaaarrrrddd draaaaawwww)
- Skullclamp (mooooorrreeeee caaaard draaaaawwww)
- Smothering Tithe (this guy is broken in EDH)
- Coastal Piracy ( heavy breathing CAAAAAAAAAAARRRRDD DRAAAW)
- Blind Obedience (good control enchantment)
- insert every flavor of mana rocks here
- Mortify (reeeemoval)
- Path to Exile (more removal)
- Swords to Plowshares (did I mention removal is important)
- Generous Gift (echo echo echo)
- Vindicate (I remember when this was like a 20$ card)
- Ghostly Prison (the best defense is actually having defense)
- Utter End (hits anything but land and its gone for good)
- Disenchant (technically the OG naturalize)
- Diabolic Tutor (like demonic tutor only not 25$)
- Open the Vaults (wow that was a nasty Nevinyrral's Disk wouldn't it be a shame if it didn't stick)
- Propaganda (Ghostly Prison but blue)
- Sphere of Safety (ghostly prison but gets really out of hand fast)
- Darksteel Mutation (this card is evil)
- Imprisoned in the Moon (that’s a nice land ya got there)
- Frogify (MAKE THAT COMMANDER A FROG)
- Phyrexian Arena (card draw, but black)
- Aura of Silence (because only you can have artifacts and enchantments)
- Dispeller's Capsule (disenchant on a stick)
- Norn's Annex (phyrexian ghostly prison)
- Notorious Throng (TURN THAT PAIN INTO FRIENDS))
- Wrath of God (NUKE UM NUKE UM)
- Fumigate (Moooore NUUUKES)
- Oblivion Ring (say no, now with enchantments)
- Detention Sphere (kill all of one type of token, or remove all the sol rings, you know for shits and giggles)
- Karmic Justice (blow up my stuff i blow you up)
- Land Tax (ok not budget but reeeeaaaallly nice for lands outside of green)
- Grasp of Fate (o ring but for each opponent)
- Attrition (you should have tons of minions so sacking some for removal is value)
- True Conviction (one of my favorite big nasty enchantments)
- Akroma's Memorial (most of the times this hits the field it's over)
- Jace Beleren (og jace is nice)
on Life Lost v2
3 days ago
Hey, see your Topic and want make some suggestions.
I think here is no Question ;).
Rhystic Study is a must have for every Blue Deck, Brainstorm & Ponder also for Topdeck-Control. Smothering Tithe give you more Ramp/Mana if your Opponent dident pay. A Land Tax is so awesome, take 3 Basics out the Deck every Turn, and your Chance to Draw Combopieces is better. (Also if you must Discard Basic-Lands (Handsize).
Here is my old Vapire Deck, its more Casual but maybe you find more Ideas for your own Deck. [PreCon] Legion of Dusk - Orzhov Vampire Tribal
3 days ago
Hey, this Deck looks sweet.
If you want destroying the World an Worldslayer is also sweet :).
4 days ago
1 week ago
Tzefick: I read through the original post, but I want to circle back to it later. And you will have to excuse the order in general, I was responding to this across the course of a day.
On artifact removal
There are a few points to unpack here. The first, and most importantly, is that removal is a big part of Magic, the Gathering and honestly, is what makes games (and deckbuilding) interesting. IF MtG was just about amassing board states and then slamming big creatures into other big creatures, the game would be much more boring (not to mention take much longer). But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it.
As for dealing with removal (especially mass removal) - there are still many options that white already has access to which does actually allow them to ramp. Wayfarer's Bauble , Burnished Hart , Solemn Simulacrum , Kor Cartographer , Knight of the White Orchid are all perfectly valid land ramp cards. Sure, the average CMC of these spells is higher than their green counterparts, however green is THE ramp colour, so it would be expecteded that there would be hihger costs/more contitions to be met for other colours to do a similar thing. And that's without even touching on cards like Sword of the Animist or Explorer's Scope which are both equipment and what white excels at.
In addition to this, while not ramping, white already has access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer , Land Tax , and Tithe which allow you to consistently hit your lands. While not as good as outright ramping, if you're hitting your lands each turn, you're genereally not doing too badly. And when combined with other ramp effects, by mid to late game you still end up with as much mana as most players.
Now onto the artifacts. Yes, there are a lot of good artifact removal effects which can slow players down. But I would also point out a few things here too.
Mana dorks are a very common form of ramp in commander. Most green decks will run a bunch of them and there are even strategies (elf ball) which almost solely relies on them. But just as artifacts can be hated on, white has some of THE best creature removal in the game. This includes both single target but also mass removal, which can severely hamper your opponents with regards to ramp. And unlike green (who is the main comparison point here), white doesn't rely on mana dorks, leaving you relatively unaffected from a mana standpoint.
In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many. Sure, this doesn't stop everything, but it can shut down a lot of (especially green) big bad ones. We are seeing a lot of these printed in new sets, to the point where WotC are really trying to drive home the point that "this is what white does".
Ok, now circling back (And I will do this more than once) and picking up on my previous paragraph. On the topic of land ramp - white is very good at shutting down this. between all of the MLD, Balance type effects and library shutdown effects like Aven Mindcensor , white hating on green's land ramp is to green hating on artifacts (i.e. white's main ramp source). Again I reiterate, this is what white does. It has been made abundantly clear, since we have time and time again seen printing of cards that equalise the board, to take away other players' advantages. So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall.
On Graveyard Recursion
This topic follows on from the whole artifact removal thing. Yes, white is very strong in graveyard recursion. And just to touch on one of your points, even recently white got a bunch of graveyard recursion via cards like Daring Archaeologist and Restoration Specialist . Not repeatable sure, but still decent. And let's face it, any mono-white commander product is going to see Sun Titan reprinted. But back to the whole recusrion thing in general - while white is good at recursion, it's permanent based, not specifically land based. Yes, this overlaps (especially in the case of Sun Titan ) but here it's just a bit of nice value.
Land recursion is very much a green thing (I'm not even going to list the cards) and that makes sense. But for white, the recursion is generally symmetric if en masse. And again, this makes sense. White is good at wrecking stuff, so it's also good at bringing stuff back. But the point is that just because you wreck stuff and bring it back symmetrically doesn't mean that you can't exile a graveyard or two in the middle. Ok, but what's my concern with what you're recommending (both across the board but let's talk specifics)?
So, fundamentally I have no issues with the release of white cards which can return permanents from the graveyard to the battlefield, and fundamentally I have no issues with pairing these cards with any kind of fetchlands to ramp. As you mentioned, we have the new Sevinne's Reclamation and Brought Back alongside Sun Titan and Profound Journey .
Where I have issue in this case is not with the concept of having a cheaper spell that hits smaller stuff, but in this case your suggestion. Unforntunately, ther is a fine line between being able to be used early game for ramp purposes and just being broken. The card you proposed is similar in effect to Unearth , though it being able to hit any permanent for 2 mana (yes, even CMC 2 or less) is super good. That means that in legacy it can hit cards like Young Pyromancer , Snapcaster Mage (to get other spells even at sorcery, like itself for example), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Wasteland , etc. as well as potentially getting another permanent too. It just seems way too powerful. Sure, we could start tweaking the mana costs/effects but I think you would end up with effectively a functional reprint of Sevinne's Reclamation . And look, if that's what you're going for then that's fine. But that's the danger with working under the guise of returning permanents while focusing on lands.
As for the land sepcific recursion effect though, this just seems out of charater (and heavily moving into green's territory). Just because one card was printed, which again did a symmetric effect (almost seems good with Armageddon + Tormod's Crypt ...) does not mean that it's a shoo-in for more cards to be printed like that. Planar Birth was printed inthe same set as Catastrophe and it seems like those cards were designed to play well with each other. As for hitting land drops each turn, I have no issues with this (hell, I even mentioend it before) and to aid in the available "non-good fetch" fetches, you have Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds , Myriad Landscape , Grasslands , Flood Plain , Bant Panorama , Esper Panorama , Naya Panorama , Warped Landscape , Terminal Moraine and Thawing Glaciers . That's a pretty good collection of budget fetch effects that already exist. And between Scaretiller , Sun Titan , Sevinne's Reclamation and Crucible of Worlds (and in conjuction with other ramp) there are already options there.
Again, I will double down on my argument that if you look, these cards already exist and can be made to work together in a deck. Yes, Crucible of Worlds has ~$25 USD price tag (at the time of writing this) however that is not too exorbitant for a strong EDH card.
On Other Colours
I get that each colour has its strengths and weaknesses and that when you put all of them alongside each other there will always be a worst colour. But I don't think that's a bad thing. White is an incredibly powerful colour outside of commander, and as a second colour, white is still super good. But mono-white has to have a weakness. In this case, it's slow. Buat again, that's done for a reason - because white represents balance. White might be slow, but it will do a really good job of slowing you down with it. And again, I get that ther will be a group of players who don't want to play all of the stax cards for fear of getting other poeple's backs up. But what about the players who don't care about that? you've now just armed a bunch of people with ramp and draw with their existing supply of stax. Think of how much worse that will be.
Now onto red (since you touched on it) - yes, WotC have come up with a nice balance for red's card advantage (in that it matches red's ramp style) - momentary bursts of value. Rituals and exile - you use it or you lose it kind of effects, which makes sense (and which you pointed out). But it's all done within the bounds of the colour pie still. But everything about white screams that it's card advantage is making sure your opponents don't have cards.
While I believe that commander should be avaialble to anyone, there are some cold, hard facts: Some people can spend more than others, and, not everybody within a playgroup has the same budget.
The cards I listed before were budgetless and in most cases, the best of the best. And I understand that only a small portion of commander players actually own said cards. But there are always alternative cards at all budgets, they just may not be as desirable. But that's where my double standard comment came in, which is "if you want to play a colour that doens't have good ramp, but still want the best ramp then either pay the money to buy the good (read "expensive") stuff or deal with the fact that you can't/won't buy it." I don't think that's an unfair statement, and it's a slippery slope once you start pandering to it.
But again, if ther is a budget discrepency within a playgroup then I also don't think that it is WotC's responsiblity to fix it. This is something that the players have to own and is an entire discussion point in an of itself, so I will leave that there. But I think most players would agree with me on this.
On Other Players
Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it.
And don't get me wrong, I play both casual and competitive lists, I work full time and have funds available to afford nicer cards. A casual list for me sits in the $400-500 range. But before you discount my opinion becasue fo that, hear me out. I have looked at many, many, many lists on tapped out, ranging from <$100 to >$5000 and have learnt a lot over the years. Typically the things I notice is that the kinds of poeple who complain about a lack of XYZ have also employed a lot of bad deck-building practices (no, I'm not implying this on your lists). Really heavy mana curves, little ramp to begin with, high CMC ramp, lack of focused win conditions, all that good stuff. And I'm not saying that the decks are completely unplayable, but a lot of them are really clunky and slow. And I won't begrudge people for building those decks. But if your average CMC is 4.5 and then you're complaining that your deck is slow, that's becasue of the card choices you made. However bad deckbuilding is not WotC's fault.
So compared to those poeple, I will be a bit arrogant and say I undstand balance better than them, yes. But, and more importantly, so does WotC - because they seem to be printing more stax cards for white as sets come out, but not more ramp and card advantage which would fix the non-problem.
1 week ago
enpc Your response makes me believe you didn't actually read the OP through. Further suggested by how you said earlier that I forgot to talk about White's ability to resource denial while I clearly had a shorter paragraph mentioning Armageddon , Ravages of War and Limited Resources and how I didn't believe that archetype was a very progressive way to forward white's multiplayer playability in Commander, even though it is one of white's more powerful archetypes but it has some nasty side effects on the political spectrum.
My main problem with white having to almost exclusively go to artifacts for fixing their problems on ramp and card draw is exactly because artifacts are plentiful in Commander and therefore many run artifact removal. It is quite tough as a white player that spent a lot of mana on dishing out mana ramp and/or card draw artifacts, just to have an opponent cast Bane of Progress or Vandalblast or be the target of an incidental Casualties of War or Aura Shards , and there's limited options for white to counter that, bar the expensive catch-all . Why green has better and more flexible counters that actually fits white more is a bit strange to me and I wish white had at least a comparable answer that didn't cost 40$.
In a way I wouldn't mind if white also got some artifact restoration as they did in the older days . Blue and red has some good artifact pulls but white did have that same affinity back in the day, so it is definitely part of their color pie . White just has a huge problem again with the symmetrical effects being a disadvantage in multiplayer unless they can fuel the graveyard - which they cannot by themselves.
One solution could be a Tempting Offer card that pulls back artifacts.
Tempting Offer Show
White's tempting artifact recovery
Tempting Offer - Return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Each opponent may an artifact card from their graveyard to the battlefield. For each opponent who does, you may return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Most opponents would likely take the offer to return their strongest artifact to their board, and in exchange white gets to mass-return their wrecked artifacts at a discount. Unlike say Tempt with Discovery which in general should never be accepted.
One of the mana ramp suggestions (in the OP) was indeed to return low CMC permanents, which could hit ramp artifacts as well - so pulling double duty and well within white's color pie. Getting extra lands this way is more resilient versus playing mana artifacts but requires extra steps compared to mana artifacts and will never be a true replacement but merely a supplement. And it's not the first time white restores lands .
I think it would be better if white players could included these types of permanent restoration cards into their decks and it was viable, rather than having to put Manalith into their deck.
Again these suggestions are unlikely to replace mana artifacts or become auto-includes, but they could provide good supplementary support. I advocate choice, but if improvements could be made to a color specific solution to a color that falls behind in the format, then I see no issue.
And none of the suggested cards are something I would imagine would swim rather than sink in eternal formats, but it's possible there's something I overlook.
It's also meant as a general take on a possible solution, and not necessarily the only thing needed to improve white's ability to compete in casual EDH. For instance if the land restoration cards I suggested was a way to go, then more cards that facilitate that line of play could be made. More functional reprints of Evolving Wilds , a variant on Flagstones of Trokair or basically anything that helps that line of play and doesn't need to be *the* fetchlands . Prismatic Vista was a very good alternative to the fetchlands, that sadly has taken a very similar price trend. Although I think that may have more to do with the price of the Modern Horizons set compared to what value was in there, than the actual card - a cash-back so to speak. Now I just hope for future functional reprints - even while owning 2 Prismatic Vista s.
White lands that end up in the graveyard Show
Variant on Flagstones of Trokair
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a basic Plains card and put it onto the battlefield, you gain 2 life.
Something with a line of play that lets you put lands into the graveyard but not fall behind on lands in play.
, : Look at the top 6 cards of your library, you may put any number of land cards from among them into your graveyard, then put the rest of the cards on the bottom of your library in a random order. You may shuffle your library.
Outside the colors of Jund's lands matters deck. Outside of most landfall decks. Will likely cause Crucible of Worlds to increase in price, but is an example of something white could do that isn't specifically self-mill, isn't draw discard and isn't land- Buried Alive .
White have previously had a somewhat similar effect in Endless Horizons , one that is somewhat similar to Land Tax . Where Endless Horizons essentially provides deck thinning and pseudo card-advantage, it also presents a rather significant risk if blown up, especially if you play greedy - don't do it. This suggested land or whatever it will end up being, it doesn't need to be a land... it can thin your deck and throw lands in the graveyard, and provide a library shuffle if needed.
What I mean to say with the above, is that the suggestions in the OP and here is more about a direction of solutions to this perceived issue with white in casual Commander, more than it is "this card will single-handedly turn white into just as great a color as green for Commander". Therefore reflecting on these cards' viability in context to only existing cards would be against the point I try to make.
Think of red for a moment. For almost two decades, red didn't have actual card advantage. They had Browbeat as a punisher mechanic, they had Wheel of Fortune in the very early days but those are more exceptions than the rule. Then red got their temporary draw or draws with downside with an underlying theme "it's here in the now, use it or waste it". Card draw is so basic and essential to the game, that each color has come up with ways to achieve it. I think white needs to find a similar solution for multiplayer formats.
And finally, to quote you; "But if your argument is that they're not as good (the manarocks) and so you don't want to play them, then tough, welcome to how balancing works. And if that's not fair in your mind then you have some really bad double standards."
Does balancing need to include price tags? Joke aside.
But how come a large portion of the Commander community has expressed that white and to a lesser extend red are the least powerful colors in Commander, especially white when considering mono color? Red is getting support lately and is improving, but white falls behind.
Do you claim you know balance better than all those people?
2 weeks ago
Inventors' Fair is anothe good land you could use. Also grab an Ancient Den and Darksteel Citadel as well to maximize artifact synergies. Refurbish , Emeria, The Sky Ruin , and Open the Vaults can also let you get things out of your graveyard.
Reya is probably too expensive.
Cut Heavenly Blademaster, you don't have enough creatures to take advantage of her.
Kemba, Kha Regent would be a more appropriate one because she generates tokens as blockers and swarmers if neede.
I'm not huge on Nahiri, the Lithomancer . 5 mana to not really get a lot done but make a 1/1 and equip it once. Similarly, Ajani Goldmane doesn't seem to do a lot in your deck. I think walkers like Ugin, the Ineffable and Elspeth, Sun's Champion might just straight up be better fits. You want to capitalize on that artifact synergy.
If you absolutely need something expensive and threatening, Zetalpa, Primal Dawn or Heliod, God of the Sun are good options with baked-in indestructible.
Land Tax and Smothering Tithe may also be very big includes. The second generates artifacts for anything that needs them as well as makes lots of mana or slows your opponents down considerably. Both are good for you.
Finally, you have some fun infinite mana generation in there but... what does it do? You've got no real payoff for abusing Basalt Monolith. There's no way to chain or bounce things, no aetherflux resrvoir, etc. Maybe instead of Doubling Cube , you run more linear ramp like Sword of the Animist , Explorer's Scope , or Land Tax
2 weeks ago
I like your deck! It has a similar flavor to my Grixis Twisted Group Hug (No Pain, No Gain!), where I can help with cards and effects, but at a cost. The idea was a Zedruu the Greathearted , but with black, black being my favorite Mtg color. I invite you to take a look at my deck and draw some inspiration from it. One of the principles of the deck is that I don't target destroy/exile/counterspell anything; "that wouldn't be nice, from a good guy that helps you, eh?". I personnally found that Illicit Auction and Pain's Reward are such fun cards and can hurt a player so bad at the same time ! You could also consider any cards with the Join Forces and Tempting Offer mechanics. If I do help someone, it is not everybody, like I originally would have like. So to be honest, I may rename my deck "Grixis Bitter Hugs" -because I think it is more accurate than "Grixis Twisted Group Hug"- if you don't mind. While commenting, I took time to update my deck's description, which was pretty much empty before lol
You could also add Anvil of Bogardan , Oracle's Vault , Outpost Siege , Vance's Blasting Cannons Flip, Bloodgift Demon , Indulgent Tormentor , Well of Lost Dreams ... Phyrexian Arena is a must, Rhystic Study is a beast (but pricy $), Mystic Remora is great and you could add also Braid of Fire , comboing with Luminarch Ascension . For more lands, add Land Tax , Knight of the White Orchid , Weathered Wayfarer , Sword of the Animist , Thaumatic Compass Flip, Journeyer's Kite ...
Land Tax occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.07%
WB (Orzhov): 0.62%
WU (Azorius): 1.32%