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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Grasp of Fate
When Grasp of Fate enters the battlefield, for each opponent, exile up to one target nonland permanent that player controls until Grasp of Fate leaves the battlefield.
Crow-Umbra on The Value Frog and His Hateful GF
2 weeks ago
I will preface my feedback by acknowledging that I don't currently own my Thalia/Gitrog deck in paper and haven't played it at all IRL.
I think you are spot on in being heavy on the ramp. Since Thalia/Gitrog already has the extra land drop effect stapled on to them, I think you could stand to cut 3-4 of your 1 drop mana dorks, and 1-2 other Extra Land Drop effects. For similar reasons, I think you could safely cut Smothering Tithe. Yes, it's a great card, but I think you already have a ton of ramp, and Thalia/Gitrog taps down your opponents' lands, so it feels a bit extra. I think some of the following could be helpful:
Serra Paragon - As another recursion source for sacrificed lands and smaller creatures.
Bastion of Remembrance / Dictate of Erebos - Any edict or aristocrats effects that can punish your opponents when you choose to sacrifice creatures
Retreat to Hagra & Retreat to Emeria - More Landfall effects that can ping opponents, create sac fodder, and temporarily anthem up your board in some way.
You could even use some of the mana dork slots for hatebears and stax effects like Collector Ouphe, Drannith Magistrate, or Archon of Emeria. They can support the hate effects that Thalia/Gitrog already have, and you can sacrifice them if needed to break parity once they've served their purpose.
More removal is always helpful. I'm a fan of effects that hit all opponents, but aren't necessarily board wipes. Stuff like Dismantling Wave, Grasp of Fate, or Druid of Purification.
I hope these are helpful suggestions.
Delphen7 on Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward + …
1 month ago
You can link cards by enclosing them in double brackets [ ].
This just makes it easier for everyone to know what's happening :)
Since they are exiled until the permanent returns, they will not be exiled by the trigger of the permanent you put into the graveyard as a result of the legend rule.
This is usually found on the rulings of the cards themselves, but Abdel apparently doesn't have it, so here are some similar cards.
- "If Chained to the Rocks leaves the battlefield before its triggered ability resolves, the target creature won't be exiled. (2013-09-15)"
- "If Suspension Field leaves the battlefield before its enters-the-battlefield ability resolves, the target creature won’t be exiled. (2014-09-20)"
- "If Hixus leaves the battlefield before its triggered ability resolves, the creature that dealt combat damage to you won’t be exiled. (2015-06-22)"
- "If Grasp of Fate leaves the battlefield before its triggered ability resolves, no nonland permanents will be exiled. (2015-11-04)"
SufferFromEDHD on New Ranar after errated
2 months ago
My super secret tech is Forsaken City
Council's Judgment one of the best removal spells in the game
Detention Sphere and Grasp of Fate the enchantment versions.
Crow-Umbra on Michigone
3 months ago
Hi there! I thought I'd try my best to answer the questions you left for me on my wall. I mostly play the "typical" 4-person EDH pod, with the occasional 5 person game here or there. All of my decks are built with a multi-player setting in mind. To answer your other questions as best as possible:
1 - What is my win rate with Isshin? - This is something I haven't kept close track of, unfortunately. In the past year, I've played at least 20 games with the deck, so I'd have a rough guess that it's won about 25% of the games it has played, and threatened wins another 15-20% of the time, but couldn't quite close it out for one reason or another. My primer has some game logs in the long list of updates if you want to try to read through those. I tried to capture the summary of some of my more memorable games, win or lose.
2 - How do you win with Isshin in multiplayer? - Damage, whether combat or group slug/drain damage. Any aggro or damage based strategy has to find a way to pump out at least 120 damage over the course of a game, or capitalize on openings made by other decks in peoples' defenses. My Isshin deck wins by making swarms of tokens, and antheming them up with Battle Cry, Melee, or some other static power/toughness boost. The times I've won with combat damage, was typically off the back of Iroas, God of Victory because I had a board that could swing away and was hard to block. This is why I also have the damage effects of Purphoros, God of the Forge, Mishra, Claimed by Gix Meld, Commissar Severina Raine, Impact Tremors, and Brutal Hordechief. The group damage and combat damage help each other out. They both soften up your opponents and help make each other more viable. These damage effects also help you get "around" blockers.
"So what do I do? Lean more into group slug, i.e. put in Impact Tremors? Lean away from wipes and focus on ramp and draw? More protection for my creatures?"
These are all generally good ideas. Adding in more ramp and draw can help your deck with consistency, especially for staying gassed up in the mid-late game. While board wipes are helpful, I've found that sometimes it can get annoying to reset the game too many times. At some point someone has to win, and wiping the board 3+ times in a single game can make it tedious instead.
3 - "Is it mean/distasteful to eliminate the player that is the biggest threat, then finish off everyone else? Am I a bully?*" - Personally, I don't think so. I guess it depends on how well you know the people you are playing with. If the "threat" you eliminated has a deck that consistently pops off if it isn't dealt with, then I don't think it's wrong for them to sit one out. I've been a similar position numerous times with Isshin where I'll eliminate the player that might be the biggest threat to me specifically or could be the biggest threat to the table. If I become archenemy of that game, then so be it. Being archenemy can be fun, and it can be a compliment. Congrats, your deck is now the Big Bad Scary Thing. This is a game, and someone has to win each match up. Yes, EDH is supposed to be a "casual format", and that means a variety of different things to players, but after all is said and done, someone has to win. Ideally it can be you.
4 - "As the only deck in the meta with a robust removal suite..." - I will address the rest of the statement you left, but woof, it sounds like the group you played with this time around was maybe very casual? I found that when some of my friends first started playing EDH, they didn't run a whole lot of removal, often to their own detriment. As one friend and I like to echo, "removal wins games". I think you were correct in removing the Ghired's Anointed Procession, but left their other enchantment alone so they could have fun. Ideally, you shouldn't have to be the "Removal Police" and manage every threat you have the capability to. I typically use my removal to A) Address threats most pressing to me B) Address threats that are most detrimental to the table, but will buy me some good will and time to build afterwards. You can utilize removal for achieving parity as you see fit. In terms of this being a good strategy, I think a better question is more about was a fun game environment created? Being "Removal Police" is fun for some and not as much for others. Eventually, everyone else around the table might have to reconsider running more removal to stay relevant and interactive in games, if that's the type of play they want.
5 - "Board wipes made our games longer" - Going back to what I said a couple paragraphs up "While board wipes are helpful, I've found that sometimes it can get annoying to reset the game too many times" - I personally run 2 wipe effects in each deck. Most of my removal is single target, or can hit multiple things, but isn't quite a board wipe (Wear / Tear, Dismantling Wave, Grasp of Fate, Ashes to Ashes, or Druid of Purification). This is all personal choice though.
5.1 "How do I recover more quickly after a board wipe than my opponents? Do I need more card draw? Do I need more protection to keep my creatures around? " - Card draw is always more helpful. Upping the amount of card draw is typically helpful. The tricky part is tuning the type of draw utilized and finding the balance that feels right for you. For me I have about 14 effects in my deck that can draw cards in either cantrip single instances, in multi-card bursts, or in consistent but slow manners. It takes plenty of playing to see what feels right for you. I also run about 11 different effects that protect my board. I've found that Flawless Maneuver and Teferi's Protection have saved my board and kept them in tact enough to maintain momentum the times I've successfully pulled them off. Clever Concealment is a new option that is especially good in token decks. Scapegoat is another cool and cheap option for token decks, and also lets you redeploy your board strategically. I also keep my overall average CMC of my deck as low as I can, so in the event that I don't have a protection effect, but have drawn into plenty of material, I can play cheaply costed creatures and removal/interaction/protection while everyone else is still rebuilding.
5.2 "when is the right time in an aggro deck to play a board wipe?" - This requires more nuance and playing IRL to determine what feels right to you. I typically board wipe when someone else is building a bigger board than me, and is out-pacing me in that regard, but I have things in hand to quickly rebuild with afterwards, or have a protection effect to spare my board from my own wipe. It also depends on the types of wipes you are playing. White has a ton of options such as Promise of Loyalty, Slaughter the Strong, Retribution of the Meek, Vanquish the Horde, Farewell, Austere Command, and By Invitation Only to name a few. I've found it can be helpful to maybe have 1 wipe that is somewhat asymmetric, usually by presenting each player a choice on what they get to keep. This is a double edged sword since.... people get a choice on what they get to keep. While this may not solve the threat you were looking to eliminate, this may at least make things more manageable. I know Ruinous Ultimatum is a popular option because of how one-sided it is, but the restrictiveness of the mana cost can be annoying. Isshin doesn't necessarily win in 1 big flashy play that seemingly comes out of nowhere, like a combo deck might, but does build up a board presence and aggro momentum over a few turns. If you can continue to build and maintain a momentum, and add in more damage modifiers or Impact Tremors effects, it may then open up the opportunity for a big alpha strike turn, or a turn where you make a bunch of tokens with krenko tin street king pin because it stuck around long enough and you also have Impact Tremors and/or Hellrider and will either make a metric ton of goblins when Krenko swings, or you already have a metric ton of goblins to swing with for Hellrider.
Ultimately this is about finding what is most fun and engaging for you to play, and balancing that out with what is fun for your group. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same definition of fun. Some people will think its unfun or boring to get token swarmed or killed with Impact Tremors, and that's okay.
Definitely add more draw and ramp. Cut down your mana curve and on splashy, but inconsistent effects where possible.
Running robust removal and interaction is helpful, but don't think you have to be "threat/parity police" because of it. Other people can choose to step up their removal/interaction suites too. Less board-wipes can be a good thing.
A variety of board protection effects will help you maintain the momentum you are building. A lower mana curve helps you go into aggro mode faster, and hopefully rebuild more quickly after wipes. Ideally, this also helps leave a little mana leftover for your Clever Concealments, Boros Charms, and other protection effects.
Group Slug and combat damage help each other out and make each other more viable. You are trying to land 120 damage around the table to take out 3 other players, so ideally you should maximize your damage output and find what works best for you, and what is most fun and dynamic for you.
Best of luck and hope you continue to have fun playing this awesome commander.
Coward_Token on People's Thoughts on Mommy Norn?
5 months ago
Yeah I'm kinda surprised about the controversy
What Caerwyn said about her supposedly being "Too generically good". I don't see myself including her in many of my decks, if any. She is not Smothering Tithe. I don't think comparing her to Hullbreacher or Drannith Magistrate is appropriate, as they're going to come out and shut down the board much quicker due to their low cost.
What aholder7 said about ETBs needing more answers.
Yarok is a three-color commander, while Mommmy Norn is mono-white, which still lacks good draw (yes, BRO tried). As a commander she'll have problems keeping up with having enough protective cards available. To be fair though, while she lacks an explicit self-protection ability like hexproof, she is immune to a lot of creature- and enchantment-based removal, e.g. Amphin Mutineer and Grasp of Fate.
Last_Laugh on FLYING
5 months ago
You're REALLY lacking in the draw department. I'll try to keep my options budget friendly.
Plumb the Forbidden is amazing... instant speed makes this card. Skullclamp is excellent in any deck making 1/1 tokens. Reconnaissance Mission/Bident of Thassa/Coastal Piracy will all keep your grip full. Starscream, Power Hungry Flip/Court of Grace both bring the monarch mechanic which is easy to hold onto here. Aerial Extortionist is versatile removal plus card draw in one. Shadrix Silverquill is typically going wide with +1+1 counters but it also has a draw option (Felidar Retreat is another good +1+1 counter option here.).
I'd also suggest running more of your removal as enchantments. Detention Sphere, Grasp of Fate, Imprisoned in the Moon, and Oubliette are all excellent options here.
Last are 2 miscellaneous suggestions. Authority of the Consuls puts in some work (and is disgusting if you get it + Archangel of Thune out together). Vault of the Archangel is worth it just for the threat of activation.
Anyways, try to squeeze as many draw engines in here as possible... I run all the options I listed + a few more (17 total iirc). Feel free to check out my list for ideas. Upvotes on any of my decks are appreciated. Alela's Aerodynamics: A Master Course
hootsnag on Athreos White Black Undying Evil
5 months ago
I had Grasp of Fate in this deck at one point then decided to cut it for more permanent removal. Serra Paragon wouldn't be good for this deck at all since I need my creatures to not be exiled. Luminous Broodmoth is interesting but I probably wouldn't use it. Pillow fort strategies aren't really needed in this deck. Just removal and creatures that keep coming back. Thanks for the feedback!
Last_Laugh on Athreos White Black Undying Evil
5 months ago
Grasp of Fate is a solid piece of removal in these colors. Serra Paragon and Luminous Broodmoth are 2 newer cards that're powerful and fit the theme. Also, I'm loving all the old cards, have you tried any pillowfort elements like Ghostly Prison/Koskun Falls?
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