Praetor's Grasp

Legality

Format Legality
Tiny Leaders Legal
Noble Legal
Leviathan Legal
Magic Duels Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Vintage Legal
Modern Legal
Penny Dreadful Legal
Custom Legal
Vanguard Legal
Legacy Legal
Archenemy Legal
Planechase Legal
1v1 Commander Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Unformat Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal

Printings View all

Set Rarity
New Phyrexia (NPH) Rare

Combos Browse all

Praetor's Grasp

Sorcery

Search target opponent's library for a card and exile it face down, then that player shuffles his or her library. As long as it remains exiled, you may look at it and cast it as though it were in your hand.

Praetor's Grasp Discussion

jaymc1130 on cEDH Yidris storm

5 days ago

@ Natux I think most Kess decks these days tend to go for the Consultation win lines over the storm ones when an opening occurs in match, it's pretty easy to use one forbidden tutor into the Lab Man into the other tutor. I never liked these lines because they are such a huge risk, even if the reward is winning the game. Me, personally, I don't ever like taking the chance I'll exile my win condition when I attempt to go for the win so I stick with more conservative game styles for competitive play for the most part. Plus, storming off is fun, particularly with manual cascade Yidris. It's like solving a really complex puzzle making sure each piece is put in place in the proper order. I don't think there's any question that Storm archetypes, DD archetypes, Flash Hulk archetypes, even Gitrog's Dredge archetype, are a lot less effective than these strategies used to be. The meta is always evolving, people are always finding new solutions to problems, and the Sultai PS shells completely crushing all competitors using extreme card slot efficiency and looped win conditions kind of warped the meta. PE got banned and the truth is that those decks were the least affected of all the decks that made use of PE! I feel really bad for Sisay and Arcum players. There's really no question that Yidris is one of the best storm options out there (and I really enjoy that Storm archetypes actually have sub genres as well), but I certainly do feel like it's a strategy that is more limited in it's effectiveness these days.

Mana bases are hard in cEDH. Decks have to be fast enough to compete with the ever present ultra fast boogey men of the format, have to run enough lands to be able to play effectively without killing opening hand consistency or missing critical land drops, but not run so many that they draw lands when they really need gas. It's a really fine line and there really isn't a specific number that leads to success as deck, commander, meta, and archetype all make a difference. Some decks like Gitrog run 35ish, while a deck like Urza that's running 6 bajillion artifacts might barely want to run 28. I always find that the best way to find out is just playtesting. Get in 30 or 40 games and see if your initial thoughts are working out in the way you intend and adjust accordingly. I almost always start with 44 total sources and then mess with it as I accumulate results, tweaking the color availability and number as needed.

Some metas call for odd choices. Right around a year ago my group all started to realize a common issue many meta decks had: a single point of failure, one card that, if removed from an opposing deck, meant the deck couldn't ever actually go off. Food Chain, or Lab Man, or whatever it might have been was the only way for a deck to operate or win. My entire playgroup started to run Extract in literally every deck that ran blue and Praetor's Grasp in every deck that ran black. Most decks had both of these colors. If the deck had access to Mardu colors Hide also creeped in. It suddenly became a requirement to run not just a win condition, or an engine, but triple redundancy of absolutely everything your deck wanted to do or it just wouldn't be allowed to compete. If you played a deck our group knew didn't contain triplicate redundancy, you were first target and before turn 2 or 3 ended all your ways to win would be exiled. Naturally this evolved into every deck running Riftsweeper or Pull from Eternity style responses. It was a damn arms race and a radically informative period for us all. Then Ashiok, Dream Render got printed... A lot of our games wind up with a third of everyone's deck in exile these days and I'm still surprised at just how slow the cEDH community is to catch on to the power of these pieces. Sometimes I'm even laughed at for discussing the ways in which they can be employed by players who have never, and will never, win a profession level event. Meta calls can certainly be important.

No question about it, my Yidris list is NOT going to recover. It's not designed to, it doesn't intend to. It's kind of a stat check deck. "Does any one have an immediate answer on turn 2? No? Ok, I win." I'm definitely a player that prefers more conservative style decks, but you can't always play just one thing and one style. It's fun to mix it up and when I'm going for a more all in style I'm going 100% all in on whatever it is the deck is supposed to do and I'm going to do it as fast as it's possible to do and damn the consequences. You either got an answer, or ya don't. The hilarious thing about that list is that it generally takes 3 working together to stop it. It's a threat to win every single turn the second it untaps and if people ran out of resources without winning themselves than it just means the umpteenth attempt is the charm. All it needs is a Yidris swing and a single spell that's usually 1 cmc.

jaymc1130 on cEDH Yidris storm

5 days ago

@ Natux I think most Kess decks these days tend to go for the Consultation win lines over the storm ones when an opening occurs in match, it's pretty easy to use one forbidden tutor into the Lab Man into the other tutor. I never liked these lines because they are such a huge risk, even if the reward is winning the game. Me, personally, I don't ever like taking the chance I'll exile my win condition when I attempt to go for the win so I stick with more conservative game styles for competitive play for the most part. Plus, storming off is fun, particularly with manual cascade Yidris. It's like solving a really complex puzzle making sure each piece is put in place in the proper order. I don't think there's any question that Storm archetypes, DD archetypes, Flash Hulk archetypes, even Gitrog's Dredge archetype, are a lot less effective than these strategies used to be. The meta is always evolving, people are always finding new solutions to problems, and the Sultai PS shells completely crushing all competitors using extreme card slot efficiency and looped win conditions kind of warped the meta. PE got banned and the truth is that those decks were the least affected of all the decks that made use of PE! I feel really bad for Sisay and Arcum players. There's really no question that Yidris is one of the best storm options out there (and I really enjoy that Storm archetypes actually have sub genres as well), but I certainly do feel like it's a strategy that is more limited in it's effectiveness these days.

Mana bases are hard in cEDH. Decks have to be fast enough to compete with the ever present ultra fast boogey men of the format, have to run enough lands to be able to play effectively without killing opening hand consistency or missing critical land drops, but not run so many that they draw lands when they really need gas. It's a really fine line and there really isn't a specific number that leads to success as deck, commander, meta, and archetype all make a difference. Some decks like Gitrog run 35ish, while a deck like Urza that's running 6 bajillion artifacts might barely want to run 28. I always find that the best way to find out is just playtesting. Get in 30 or 40 games and see if your initial thoughts are working out in the way you intend and adjust accordingly. I almost always start with 44 total sources and then mess with it as I accumulate results, tweaking the color availability and number as needed.

Some metas call for odd choices. Right around a year ago my group all started to realize a common issue many meta decks had: a single point of failure, one card that, if removed from an opposing deck, meant the deck couldn't ever actually go off. Food Chain, or Lab Man, or whatever it might have been was the only way for a deck to operate or win. My entire playgroup started to run Extract in literally every deck that ran blue and Praetor's Grasp in every deck that ran black. Most decks had both of these colors. If the deck had access to Mardu colors Hide also creeped in. It suddenly became a requirement to run not just a win condition, or an engine, but triple redundancy of absolutely everything your deck wanted to do or it just wouldn't be allowed to compete. If you played a deck our group knew didn't contain triplicate redundancy, you were first target and before turn 2 or 3 ended all your ways to win would be exiled. Naturally this evolved into every deck running Riftsweeper or Pull from Eternity style responses. It was a damn arms race and a radically informative period for us all. Then Ashiok, Dream Render got printed... A lot of our games wind up with a third of everyone's deck in exile these days and I'm still surprised at just how slow the cEDH community is to catch on to the power of these pieces. Sometimes I'm even laughed at for discussing the ways in which they can be employed by players who have never, and will never, win a profession level event. Meta calls can certainly be important.

No question about it, my Yidris list is NOT going to recover. It's not designed to, it doesn't intend to. It's kind of a stat check deck. "Does any one have an immediate answer on turn 2? No? Ok, I win." I'm definitely a player that prefers more conservative style decks, but you can't always play just one thing and one style. It's fun to mix it up and when I'm going for a more all in style I'm going 100% all in on whatever it is the deck is supposed to do and I'm going to do it as fast as it's possible to do and damn the consequences. You either got an answer, or ya don't. The hilarious thing about that list is that it generally takes 3 working together to stop it. It's a threat to win every single turn the second it untaps and if people ran out of resources without winning themselves than it just means the umpteenth attempt is the charm. All it needs is a Yidris swing and a single spell that's usually 1 cmc.

jaymc1130 on cEDH Yidris storm

5 days ago

@ Natux Hey there! FurFur does indeed opt into the storm route and his version and the Melt Banana version are both very optimized toward the overall meta and have been consistently potent performers over many hundreds of games. I tend to agree that I think a bit more tuning could get the deck to do what it does even more consistently which is how I wound up with my variant on it.

In high level cEDH win cons like Laboratory Maniac and Aetherflux Reservoir , while commonly used, are generally considered poor win conditions as they add dead card draws to the deck and running as many "live" cards as possible tends to result in more wins per 100 games played. It's why I rarely ever run those types of win cons in any deck I play for competitive purposes and instead usually just rely on reaching an infinite position before looping interaction or utility pieces I would already otherwise be running as the win conditions. In my variant I simply loop cards like Windfall , Wheel of Fate , Wheel of Fortune , and Praetor's Grasp infinitely to deck opponents. No "dead card" win condition slots that way and the consistency is markedly improved because of it. It's still a deck with dramatically more cards that are bad in opening hands than typical Sultai PS shell lists, but when compared to other fast, aggressive combo decks it had slightly less.

In the cEDH meta most of the fast combo decks that can reliably win by turn 3 aren't actually very good at being able to manage top level win rates. The more card slot efficient Sultai PS shells are simply too capable of preventing that type of strategy with access to the highest quality cheap interaction spells around. This kind of pushes decks like DD/Shimmer Zur, Flash Hulk, and certainly Yidris into a meta space where these decks rather have to go all in and hope the superior opposing decks don't have an answer and that's why my list is tuned to do precisely that. It goes big, or it goes home, and in a few hundred some odd games it's managed a fairly nice 27-28% win rate. Right on par with the other fast combo decks that generally win in the 25-29% range, but definitely less eye popping than the 35%+ some of the Sultai PS shells pull off. There really isn't a point to trying to play a Yidris deck in any fashion except as an all in combo race deck, other decks do the Mid Range Control or Stax Control styles much better and you'd be better off playing one of them if you were looking to win after turn 3. It certainly sucks to see Yidris get Swords'ed and know you're essentially a spectator in the match, but that's kinda the price you pay when you bring Yidris to a table. It's all about being as consistently fast as possible to combo off before any one has a chance to acquire answers or combo off themselves.

As far as Wheel of Fate goes this card is an absolute must run for an optimized Yidris list. It's simply too good at what it does and proper sequencing of cascade triggers and spell casts can usually mean it's cast-able on demand after you cycle out all the 0 cmc spells in the deck when cascade chaining. This is also why my list is running more than a few ways to stick it back into the deck. The ability to gas back up on demand and generate net mana positive cascade loop cycles is what allows the deck to storm off in the first place. Granted this was much easier in my variant with PE, so the banning of that card is going to require some fine tuning to make the list fully functional again. No matter what, that list lost a significant amount of consistency in it's cascade chain cycling due to the PE ban. I'm unlikely to run that deck for a while until I figure out some way to solve the issue in testing.

When it comes to the mana base for that list it was pretty difficult to tune it and it took a lot of time tweaking what dorks were being run in combination with what lands and what mana fixers to make it not only super consistent about getting Yidris down on turn 2, but also be able to function during the cascade chaining portion. In the end I realized that getting Yidris down was a lot more important as most mana issues after starting the cascade chain get solved by the very process of cascade chaining and pulling all those 0 cmc mana rocks out of the deck, so the mana base and dorks were eventually tuned to be as consistent as possible about getting Yidris down turn 2 which resulted in a fairly even split. Most 4 and 5 color decks are actually super consistent though because of all the fetch and duals they run. Typically about 15 or more lands that wind up being run count as "comes into play untapped for any color" lands in terms of functionality and this means the odds of having one in your opening hand are right on the money at 1/6. Never really have issues on that note in most 4+ color decks for cEDH. Fetch lands are OP. Just make sure to always run at least 28 lands for competitive play (and this is usually paired with a dork/rock count of 16 for 44 total mana sources and a high degree of consistency).

As far as your list is concerned, its pretty nifty, but from a competitive veiwpoint it has some issues that will cause it problems. It's too slow to be able to race against other race decks despite running the most all in race commander in the entire format, and yet lacks the card quality and grind ability to stick it out in longer matches with control decks. It's kind of in this middle zone where it doesn't quite do any of the things it's trying to do well enough to win against top tier cEDH meta decks at a much better than 20-22% rate, and that might be a generous estimate. It'd likely be best to tune it to do it's thing as fast as possible and eschew pieces that don't jive with that game plan, or transfer the shell to a different commander and tune it to a more Mid Rangy type of gameplan.

StopShot on engine out, painters servant in

1 week ago

@jaymc1130, Exactly I run a lower tier combo deck ( Alesha, Who Smiles at Death ) which runs only 3-cards combos that are way more unconventional than these other combos that play at a completely different level. Even with all the expensive tutors in my deck I don't typically win the game until turn 20 or so, because they're all pretty flimsy to disruption and it would be more ideal to generate some kind of long-term value first to fall back on if things go awry. These other decks play with an entirely different mind-set by cranking out 2-card combos that can be used much faster while everyone is still trying to develop their board state and they can be ridiculously hard to answer to the point you'd have run cards like Praetor's Grasp and Nevermore as your only source of direct interaction. I know some people who play those cards for fun, but when you're forced to run a card that reads "ban target card from the game." as your only reliable answer to an oppressive combo, that oppressive combo probably shouldn't be legal in the game to begin with.

That said I wouldn't mind if they did ban Mana Crypt and Sol Ring . They're both restricted in Vintage for good reason and they do contribute a lot to the aggressiveness of any combo deck. Most players find my combos reasonably tolerable, but if I have the right hand with a Sol Ring I almost feel inclined to mulligan, because it just doesn't feel very fair to everyone else. I've yet to go up against a deck that unfairly used Doomsday , but based on my previous experiences and the turn 1 scenario you described I can see many-many ways that can go very wrong for everyone else playing the game. It's part of why for a time I used to run Winds of Change in my deck as the perfect turn 1 solution to everything given it's a mandatory mulligan for anyone who appears to be a little too happy about their opening hand. Of course that does nothing if they go first, and players shouldn't have to rely on turn 0 Force of Will s to fix these problems either.

Strangelove on Marchesa, the Black Rose EDH

3 weeks ago

Maybe you could do an +1/+1 counters version of aristocrats with Undying and cards like Epochrasite ... basically sacrifice them into a powerful engine before the end of everyone's turn.

Or... (here's one): Insurrection , Gonti, Lord of Luxury and Diluvian Primordial could be a "I play your cards" betrayal theme:

SynergyBuild on New Hub: Tutorless

3 weeks ago

legendofa "a deck in the Commander/EDH format that specifically avoids using tutors to find combos or synergistic cards."

So, what if your deck runs 20 tutors ( Demonic Tutor , Vampiric Tutor , Worldly Tutor , Mystical Tutor , etc.) but actively doesn't find combos or synergistic cards. Maybe the deck just keeps finding random lands or bad vanilla creatures. It wouldn't be tutorless though.

If you just use a straight: "No tutors in the deck" (or more formalized variant of that sentiment) there still is an issue.

Tutors search A library for a card and place it into a more accessible location ( Vampiric Tutor , Entomb , and Praetor's Grasp all apply here separate in nature than Demonic Tutor ), but under a definition such as this, Cultivate , Rampant Growth , Sakura-Tribe Elder and a lot of other cards would fall under the definition that most people wouldn't consider tutors.

If you say only tutors that search for non-basic cards would be the definition of the tutors required to be not run, then effects like Primeval Titan (while banned in commander), fetch lands, Nature's Lore , etc. get banned. At the same time as this definition is too broad, it is also too narrow, some people would argue it isn't narrow enough, as many people just don't like shuffling, which land search effects most certainly do. Effects that shuffle though don't always tutor too, Soothsaying for example.

Point is, this hub seems overly difficult to define or use.

Sunbrosoulaire on Phenax Mill fine-tuning

1 month ago

The deck is here: Dimir Trickery

The deck is a CASUAL deck. I know this idea can never be a true competitive deck but I want to take the idea and optimize it to be the best it can be.

The deck as it is right now is about using your creatures to mill people on the endstep of the player right before you to grind out the game with a lot of value creatures/good blockers. The deck also runs several combos and some tutors to find them. The idea of the deck is a more "choose your own adventure" style to winning. Each game the deck plays out differently and that's the feeling I want to preserve in the deck when I revise it. Some games I will land a Paradox Engine and/or a Intruder Alarm and just value/grind out the game. Other times I will combo win right before I get killed and wipe the table. Sometimes I pull off a Laboratory Maniac or a Jace, Wielder of Mysteries win. I also snag a game now and then do to stealing/reanimating random things due to Praetor's Grasp , Reanimate , or using Reins of Power .

I am looking for flexible cards that can help fill multiple roles in the deck so I can increase my removal count as it is rather low and is the deck's main weakness when I play it. As well as ways to better protect phenax because if he gets removed for good the deck does not function. If you have any other criticisms please say something it is better to have more eyes fixing a problem than just mine.

hkhssweiss on Tenebu's Gravedigging Tendencies | Primer

1 month ago

Hey Vlasiax, thank you for your comment! I have thought of running Cruel Celebrant before, but at the moment I don't have enough slots open enough for it to test and at my current meta it's not needed. If I run into more Sadistic Sacrament , Praetor's Grasp , Extract type of cards in my meta than I will consider running it in.

Edgar Aristocrats is fun, you can definitely be running some synergy, tbh it will be an interesting build for sure, but I am unsure exactly how many playable vampires there will be. Is there a reason you want to play Edgar aristocrats instead of lets say Alesha, Who Smiles at Death ?

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Praetor's Grasp occurrence in decks from the last year

Commander / EDH:

All decks: 0.02%

Black: 0.19%

Golgari: 0.09%