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Rise from the Tides
Create a tapped 2/2 black Zombie creature token for each instant and sorcery card in your graveyard.
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|Have (12)||ninjasupahsquid , damo_rox , TThors , rikertchu , Shiromakuro , pskinn01 , JasYper , xXThormentXx , MythicMeadow , Regulus1010 , Vasbear1 , The_Grape|
Rise from the Tides Discussion
1 week ago
Changes in April 2018: finally took out Rise from the Tides as the alternative finisher. These decks are all meant to feel and play like a properly built deck, and having cards that work against each other makes the deck feel awkward and less fun (bad interaction with delve). The same problem would occur with Cryptic Serpent. One option is to ditch the Treasure Cruise, but delve is an important part of our hedron exile strategy, and losing it will cripple the deck.
So at this point we need a new finisher, and a new card that lets us do something on turn one.
I like the Curator of Mysteries for both. He introduces cycle, is a sphinx, and the deck could use a flier. He is very in theme for blue. He can be cycled on turn one if needed. He already has synergy with Jalum Tome.
Only having two Curator of Mysteries makes it nearly impossible to cycle him, there is too much lost by discarding half of your alternative win condition. Instead, I prefer 4 copies.
I considered only 2 copies and a replacement for Quicken. The Quicken replacement should either cycle or discard for synergy with the sphinx. A consideration was Striped Riverwinder; he adds another late game option with artwork people either love or hate (I like it). Opt, Peek and Twisted Image were all considerations, but they don't have synergy with the Curator. I like Hapless Researcher or Careful Study. They have synergy, help the early game, provide another discard option, and have good art on theme.
Ultimately, I did the following:
Playtesting is still in progress, but this worked OK so far against the other decks. (playtesting blue takes the longest, because of the character of the deck).
1 month ago
Looks like a great start! I would recommend planning to have a minimum of 37 land to start with. You can add more or remove later, just plan to reserve 37 spots for land. Instants and sorcery spells I would look at getting their total spell count to 18-20 instant 16-18 sorcery. Dont feel like these numbers are set in stone. They are more a starting point and you can tune from there.
2 months ago
Dralnu seems really risky to run as a commander. One Blasphemous Act and you're pretty much out of the game.
So let's protect him!
Further, I think the deck could use a greater mass of instants and sorceries. Maybe up it from 25% of the deck to 33%, cutting some creatures and enchantments.
Good luck! +1 for risky commanders!
2 months ago
eaturesAngelic Arbiter- This doesnt seem very helpful. Too expensive, but if you like it, keep it.
Curious Homunculus Flip- This card is VERY good for you. Ramps, then makes everything thats relevant cheaper for you. Strong for price and cost. I would keep this even if I were spending a significant amount of money on upgrades.
Daxos of Meletis- Doesnt fit with the deck theme. If it is there for laughs and you like it, keep it. It can be a very fun card
Deep-Sea Kraken- This is mediocre. Even with the suspend, you could put a card in this slot that does far more for your deck then a unblockable 6/6 that can be easily killed by removal after waiting for it. I recommend you remove it: does not fit the deck in any way.
Diluvian Primordial- Seems expensive to me. I would test how well it works in your playgroup before I judge it. In fairness, the cast triggers from it get you elementals with Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper. It would probably result it about 14 power hitting the board for 7, which can definitely be an issue for your opponents. Not to mention the fact that you also get the instants from the cast trigger, but you would definitely have times where the best spells you could get would be Explosive Vegetation and Farseek, which wouldnt help when you have 7 mana. I would put this in the keep for laughs pile.
Godhead of Awe- I LOVE this card. You have a 10/10 Progenitus? Here, have a 1/1 hydra Avatar. Well, I love the original: Humility. The problem with it is the creatures keep their abilities, so that baby Progenitus still has the Protection from everything bit. Which isnt great on a 1/1, but you get my point. I would remove this card in favor for something else.
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV- This card is very powerful. It makes almost all of your spells cheaper (sometimes by as much as , the effects stack) while making all of your opponents spells cost more. I would strongly suggest keeping this card.
Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer- This is one of my favorite cards because it was one of the first rares that I owned that I was like This, this is perfect. So I am very biased in saying to keep this card, so keep that in mind. He does give your opponent card advantage though, which you never want to do, but if it stops a Blightsteel Colossus, youll be glad to have it. It is important to know that if he dies, the counters will stay, but the effect will NOT. You will be able to be attacked by any creatures with Bribery counters on it. I say keep it.
Helium Squirter- This is expensive for what it does, even with the ability to give your lands flying. I would replace it with Abzan Falconer. Cheaper, and doesnt tax your mana every time you want to give something flying. I say remove and replace with Abzan Falconer
Herald of Secret Streams- This card is amazing in your deck. All those lands? Well, they had flying. Now? Good luck blocking that 9/9 flying unblockable land. Keep this card, there is absolutely no reason to replace it at this point in time.
Isperia, Supreme Judge- Expensive, and potentially hard to cast. While it gives you card advantage, there are much better options for you deck then this. It also fits with none of the themes you have going on. I would remove it, it has no place here.
Jace's Mindseeker- Seems so-so. It relies a little too much on luck for my taste, but if you enjoy the card, I guess you could keep it. It does trigger Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, but only if you hit an instant or sorcery spell, which against some decks has a very low likelihood. Remember, you only get the top five cards of the deck. I would remove this card.
Kami of False Hope- This is bad. It is a fog effect on a creature. You lose the surprise that you get from Fog in exchange for nothing. There are much better cards for your deck. Even Ethereal Haze is better, and only because you can get a 3/3 out of it. I would strongly recommend removing this card, it gives you nothing. (I am not suggesting you add Ethereal Haze. Dont.)
Knight of the White Orchid- For the longest time, I thought this card was called Knight of the white Orchard. Needless to say, I was wrong. I think this card is very powerful. It ramps in white, a color that doesnt get much love for ramp. If you play it well, you can get very ahead with this, even if it doesnt seem like much to get an extra land. It is. It can also fetch your Hallowed Fountain or Prairie Stream to get blue mana, as it doesnt specify basics. It can sometimes be a little difficult to cast on turn two, but not so much that it becomes an issue. Just to take care to play a land AFTER you play it, because you need to have less lands than an opponent. It feels bad to play a land, try to cast this, and get a 2/2 out of it because you misplayed. I would strongly recommend keep this card, ramp is so important.
Novijen Sages- This creature seems bad. Removing two 1/+1 counters for a card seems bad, especially considering it costs 6 to cast. This creature seems very bad to me. I would remove it.
Quicksilver Gargantuan- This costs 7. For a 7/7. It copies something, sure, but it doesnt fit the deck, and it is too expensive. I would say to replace it with another card. But if you enjoy it, keep it. Remember that EDH/Commander is about having fun with your favorite cards.
Resolute Archangel- This is bad. It costs 7 and the lifegain is questionable at best. Only play it if you regularly get use out of it. I would remove it.
Reveille Squad- This seems like it could be good. Attacking with your lands, then pulling them back to block is good. Sort of like vigilance for everything else. I would keep it, seems good. The card would untap everything else unless you cheat it into play as a trigger to being attacked. Here is what I found for how it works Reveille Squad triggers when you are attacked, namely when one or more creatures are declared as attackers against you, which is the first thing that happens in the Declare Attackers step. So you must control Reveille Squad before you opponent attacked, for its ability to trigger. The latest you could bring in the Squad in order for its ability to be relevant is during the Beginning of Combat step. (stolen from silentstormraider on MTGSalvation). I would keep it, seems annoying for your opponents.
Solemn Simulacrum- There is nothing to say here, this card is almost always amazing. It ramps, color fixes, and draws cards, what more could you ask? I would keep this.
Surrakar Spellblade- This card seems like if you could hit someone, it would be great. The emphasis there is on the if. Most decks are going to have something to block it with, so if you dont have a good way of getting it through, Id be wary. Note that it is not a may ability, so you may deck yourself, although that is unlikely. I would test this card for how effective it is before judging if it should stay or not. If you routinely cant get through with it, toss it.
Taigam, Ojutai Master- YES! This card is excellent for you. This not only makes all of your instants and sorceries uncounterable, it DOUBLES the number of counters you get from Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper because rebound has cast triggers. So at your next upkeep, youll not only get the spells again, youll also get more counters. I immediately thought of this card when I saw Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper. You do have to attack with him, but I think his upsides are so high that it doesnt matter very much. Keep in mind that after you declare attackers and attack, you can cast an instant with it and get it rebounded next turn. Sometimes that extra instant is more important than keeping Taigam, Ojutai Master alive. Excellent choice, I would not remove this card.
Talrand, Sky Summoner- This card is just like Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, only with flying drakes. There is no reason to remove this card. It has the protentional to be a very good card. I both like this and think it is a good card. Keep it.
Vortex Elemental- This card seems bad, rather slow. And to routinely get the effect, you are going to need to spend 6 mana on it, which feels bad. If it works or you like it, keep it. I would do some testing with it before removing it, but there would be a good chance that I would remove it.
Boompile- If you are going to want to destroy everything, you dont want a 50% chance to miss it. I would remove this, only keep it if you enjoy it. There is a 99% chance that it will fail you right when you need it. NOTE: See Perilous Vault.
Darksteel Plate- One of the most important things is to protect Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, and this is a good way to do it. Destroy effects and damage will not affect him anymore. This is a good card, keep it.
Pearl Medallion- This card seems good. Ive personally never liked the medallions, casting lots of spells can benefit from this. I would look into if you have a Sapphire Medallion, they stack on white/blue spells. If this does work, keep it.
Perilous Vault- It feels a little like a trap. You need 5 mana to cast it, and it can be annoying to keep up that mana all the time. Although that shouldnt be an issue considering that most of your spells should be instants, so it is better in your deck than most. The exiling bit bugs me: you get all of your things set up, then you go and get them exiled, never to come back. But it does the same thing for everyone else, because symmetrical effects are always fair, like Balance or Upheaval. Keep this card if it works for you, but it has never worked well for me. Removal is important in almost all cases. NOTE: I WAS WRONG. All NON-LAND permanents. Keep it. Very good with all of your lands.
Prismatic Lens- This card may provide color fixing and a little bit of ramp, but I dont think that it is good enough to fit into the deck. It isnt a very good card. I would remove it.
Celestial Flare- Good cheep removal. If this is what you have, it is fine. In the future you may want to replace it as edict (originally from the card Diabolic Edict) effects often dont get what you want to kill. Do keep in mind that you can target a player that is attacking another player, not just you. Hydra coming to kill Bob? Save him and annoy someone all at the same time!
Crippling Chill- Seems okay, but slow and not super effective. You want things that are going to do things to your opponents without hitting you. I would recommend removing this.
Disdainful Stroke- Good counterspell. Nuff said. Probably keep it.
Dive Down- While this spell works as a protection spell, it isnt super effective. +0/+3 and hexproof just doesnt affect the board state at all. Having a counterspell here would be more versatile and probably helpful. It feels like it would often be a dead card in your hand. I would take this card out.
Essence Scatter- A fine counterspell, I would probably keep it. Maybe change it to one that hits all kinds of spells, not just creatures. Keep.
Immolating Glare- While this is generally better than Celestial Flare, I would change this out for another spell, as this doesnt get around indestructible or protections. One for ones are fine, but two, three, four, or five for ones are much better, and in EDH, those are not too difficult to come by. I would change this card out. Not bad, just not good.
Negate- This falls into the same boat as Essence Scatter, doesnt hit everything, and often you will find that you have the opposite of the one you need. Im wary of limited counterspells. They seem sort of like a trap. Again, if you dont have something better, keep this, it isnt a bad card, just limited. I would keep it for now.
Opt- This card is okay, not great, but not terrible. It draws and scrys, all good. It just doesnt do more than replacing itself and a limited top deck manipulator. I would replace it soon, but isnt too big of an issue.
Pongify- This is good. Removal in blue is rare. And the ape shouldnt be an issue for you compared to what you had to deal with before. This card is very strong, keep it.
Pressure Point- This card is mediocre at best. It just doesnt do much. There are other cheap options. This card just doesnt do almost anything. I would replace this soon. I do like the flavor text.
Prismatic Strands- This is a good card. It comes back as another counter generator from Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, which is good. It is also notable that it protects from more than combat damage. It protects from a whole colors damage, which can be helpful. It doesnt give protection from that color, just protection from that colors damage. Those creatures can still block you. I dont see why you should remove this card now, it seems fine. Keep this for now, you may want to remove it later.
Restore the Peace- This card is a token destroyer. They just turn into little wisps of air. I think you should see how this works in practice and playtest it some, but it might be very good, depending on your playgroup. IMPORTANT: you can use this after Bob gets massacred by Spikeys bum-rush of 70,000 goblins on turn three. It will get all of those goblins, leaving you scot free (except that it was turn three and there were 70,000 goblins. They WILL be back, goblins always are.) Restore the Peace doesnt need to hit you, just deal damage. I would keep this for now.
Send to Sleep- This card is another card that I would recommend you replace. It doesnt do much and there are much better options. Tapping this is not going to help as much as you think it will help. I would remove this card too, but if you need a hundredth card, leave it in.
Sphinx's Revelation- This card is great. It not only draws you cards, it gets you life, too. My only worry is that you wouldnt have enough mana to make it great. But just imagine it, Twincasting it for 10 cards? Delicious. I would not remove this card, as it just gets better and better the more mana you have.
Think Twice- This card is already good, and it only gets better with the extra cast triggers for more elementals. It draws cards and makes creatures!? Great!
Twincast- This card can be extremely funny and very good. Say someone casts a Boundless Realms and you copy it. You get all of those lands too, but only as many as you would get as if you casted the spell. Spell copiers are one of my favorites! If you are ever having issues with someone where you are trying to counter a spell and there is a counterspell on the stack, you can use this to copy that counterspell! I love this card and wouldnt remove it. Kicker effects stay on the spell as you copy it.
Wing Shards- This card is worse than Celestial Flare, it doesnt hit blocking creatures and costs more. Keep in mind that two for ones are good in EDH. I would remove the card from the deck if I were you, but isnt top priority.
Angelic Gift- An okay card. Not the worst, not the best. Giving something flying can be good, but I think this card is just taking up a lot in the deck that could be filled with better things. I would remove it, but place no importance on removing it. It is functional.
Authority of the Consuls- This card can be so good against some decks. Tokens? Gain some life and they enter tapped. It has such potential for value and hosing hasty dudes. If I were you, I would keep this card, but I have a large personal bias for it. I won a prerelease once from it. Actually, Ive won two sealed tournaments with this card I like it. Keep it if you like, it isnt bad at any rate.
Cartouche of Knowledge- This seems too slow. I really am against cards that only affect one creature if they dont do much. In voltron, this might be a different idea, but this isnt a voltron deck. It does draw a card! I would remove it when I got the chance.
Detention Sphere- This card absolutely destroys tokens. I would keep this for the removal it can provide and the situational ability to ruin somebodys plans. I would call this a good card. Keep it.
Embargo- This card is excellent in the deck. I didnt realize that this card existed, but it does and the untap step called, they want everyone elses creatures back. I think losing two life a turn for this is fine. It stops everyone elses artifacts, creatures, tokens, and most anything. The only deck it wouldnt affect is Lands, and even still. Keep this card, it is almost certainly great for you.
Trail of Evidence- This seems okay, drawing the extra cards from your spells can be good. And it only costs 3 to cast, which is almost nothing. I would keep this card, seems like it could be very strong. But dont be too surprised if it is underwhelming, that may be an issue. It might be just too slow. But try it out.
Curse of the Swine- This spell has always seemed very silly to me. I would keep it if I were you, it can act as good removal and is a good spell in general. It can target your creatures too, if they are being targeted by something. I would keep this spell, good and funny.
Displacement Wave- Now this, this is Magic! This card is AMAZING. You never need to worry about your own creatures with this. This was on my cards to suggest list. The fact that this doesnt hit your lands is straight value. Excellent choice.
Expropriate- This cards art is another amazing art. It has the True-Name Nemesis, Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Mox Jet, Mox Ruby, Mox Emerald, and items from Selvala, Marchessa, Grenzo, and Muzzio. The art is GREAT! And then there is Leovold, Emissary of Trest, my little card hoarder. This spell itself is good too. Extra turns or your opponents best stuff? Win-win. I would keep this, it will win you games if you can cast it. If.
Planar Outburst- Die SCUM. This is so good for your deck. Do Not Remove This. It will do work because it doesnt kill your lands. For the love of all things sacred, keep this in the deck.
Rise from the Tides- This is another good card. Lots of tokens for you based on the numbers of instants and sorceries that should be in the deck. This will probable be a good deck, but I think it requires playtesting for a true evaluation of how good it is.
Treasure Cruise- Good card draw for one mana. This will draw you cards. I think you should keep it.
Ugin's Insight- There is a good chance here that you wont have the chance to scry more than 4 cards due to the average converted mana cost of the deck, but drawing three is nothing to scoff at. I would recommend keeping this card.
Windfall- Another fun card. Dropping this after youve dumped your hand of spells and making Spikey discard all the goblins he had in his hand is so satisfying. This card will almost never be a dead card in your hand. An Cyclonic Rift than this is devastating. Your opponents will have their board states ruined. If you have a hand of bad cards? Wheel. Keep this card if you enjoy fun.
Going to go ahead and say that this looks fine. Dont worry about spending lots of money on a mana base, spend that money/trade value on cards. This is not the most important part of the deck. Budget mana is better than budget cards. Dont worry about this.
The deck is a good start. I think that there are too many creatures and too few instants and sorceries. The reason why too many creatures isnt good is that it takes up Instant/Sorcery slots which can have better things in them. Replacing some with card draw would probably also help. There seems to be an emphasis on tapping things, which I think it may be a good idea to let go of. Tapping things down is going to serve you less than killing the creatures outright or making your board state better to the point that their cards cant affect you. Also, working on synergy with cards like Planar Outburst will be much better than having random cards in the deck. Trust me. In EDH, synergy is king. Nothing is better. Except maybe casting Teferi's Protection with mana floating to cast Balance. Wait That is synergy You would also need to cheat the Balance into play somehow, as it is banned in EDH. What I would recommend is ramp. Without ramp, you are not going to be able to do anything at a rate that other people cant stop. Refining your focus and adding ramp will serve you well. Oh, and also get rid of some of the not-so-good instants, I think you may have a few too many. Maybe take out the Fog effects too, they generally have less impact than other cards. Please dont let my suggestions take the fun out of the game for you. Having fun in EDH is the point after all, if you arent having fun, why are you playing? And so, here are my suggestions for the deck.
NoneI have more comments, but have hit a limit. The recommendations will be in the next post.
4 months ago
Hm, I was always on the fence about cards like Rise from the Tides, and especially Migratory Route. They give a bit of board presence, sure, but don't give me the swinging power that cards like Monastery Mentor and Docent of Perfection Flip do. But I might toy with the idea of those for sure. If I put those in, Anointed Procession would be damn good. Planeswalkers are hard to squeeze in, but Elspeth, Sun's Champion is good. As always, I appreciate the suggestions and will toy around with them and see what works best :)
4 months ago
I looked closer at your deck and I have some suggestions for ramping up your deck's token generating abilities, and a few other personal favorites.
Sram's Expertise, Migratory Route, Rootborn Defenses and Rise from the Tides jump out at me. Those are just four great cards for an azorius token deck. The fact that you can rebound them makes them very powerful.
Tier 1 cards to get would be Anointed Procession and Elspeth, Sun's Champion. The former can turn a lot of your token generators into broken, game wrecking things. Elspeth, Knight-Errant might be worth a look too.
Sheltering Light is a little one dimensional but can provide excellent synergy for both letting Taigam swing freely and wrathing the board asymmetricly. Shelter and Gods Willing work in that same fashion. If they're not needed on your turn, they can be surprising cards to play in response to an opponents wrath or spot removal, respectively. Even more so with As Foretold out.
I threw a lot of cards at you, here's some cut suggestions, in no particular order:
Snap- Too one dimensional, untapping two lands at your upkeep is small value, since you lose the mana you could create when you move to your main phase.
Mind's Desire- You can't control what you cast, and all the spells you cast aren't from your hand, therefore cannot gain rebound.
Declaration In Stone, Oblation- you have lots of spot removal, gotta draw a line somewhere.
Steel of the Godhead- did you know Taigam is your only UW creature?
Bastion Protector- useful but ultimately always temporary buff. This would work wonders on an enchantment/artifact, not on a 3/3 body.
Temporal Mastery- You have the good extra turn spells. If this one makes it to your hand, which can totally happen with all your card draw, it is really kinda terrible.
Phew I hope I gave you food for thought, let me know what you think.