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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Choose two —
- Prevent all damage target instant or sorcery spell would deal this turn.
- Target player sacrifices an enchantment.
- Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
- Target creature you control fights target creature you don't control. (Each deals damage equal to its power to the other.)
6 months ago
Love a good cat deck! You should check out Kaheera Cats and Chariots :3 by NonetheWeisser for some additional inspiration. Definitely one of the most competitive tribal cat decks out there and if I could toot my own horn my version of cat tribal focuses more on token creation but it is fairly potent non the less as well (Feline Feelings). Lots of good discussion in the comments of those two decks as many of the cards you are either playing or considering are in those. Might help you make some educated decisions if you were on the edge of playing one cat versus another.
Otherwise, it almost feels a bit like you are going for some +1/+1 counter synergy with this deck. Collective Effort and Unbreakable Formation are something I have played in +1/+1 counter decks and Ajani, Caller of the Pride provides another way to get counters while having some finishing moves as well. If that is the direction you are wanting, I would definitely recommend adding in a full playset of Metallic Mimic to bring cats in with +1/+1 counters and Hardened Scales to double that effect. Adding a few copies of Gavony Township might give you late game options as well. If that is not the direction you are wanting, I might suggest Dromoka's Command over Collective Effort. Slightly less potent and upside but cheaper and a bit more flexible. I would also suggest Heroic Intervention over Unbreakable Formation for the same reasons.
Also, you may want to look at the lands a bit. You only have 10 ways to generate a mana. Loam Lion is a beast if could add something like Temple Garden. Wooded Bastion would be a cheaper alternative if cost is an issue.
Anyway, hope something there was useful and happy brewing!
8 months ago
Drestlin - On the bright side, at least a one drop is pulling the attention of your opponent's removal spells right? They spend a likely 2-3 CMC to exile/destroy your 1 CMC sounds like a trade in your favor. Mix in Shapers' Sanctuary and you will even get a draw out of it to boot! With Collective Effort and Dromoka's Command I am usually running enough enchantment hate to not need Hopeful Initiate but he is my only way to deal with artifacts and I have used him successfully for that many a time. Usually because their are bigger threats on the board than him.
9 months ago
the Panglacial Wurm seems great, since you don't even have to draw it, you'd need one or two at the most. i'll probably keep it in mind if i ever try to build this weird ramp counter deck we are discussing about now ahah
lhetrick13 what you found is what i suspected - unfortunately, cards should come next week so i won't be trying much apart from maybe very small changes - i don't want to print more proxies :D
i'll let you know as soon as i try out the new version.
or maybe i'll get around to print the few cards and will be able to try it tomorrow.
FYI, this is what i put together for next try:
Creatures - 4 Conclave Mentor - 3 Duskshell Crawler - 2 Hopeful Initiate - 2 Iron Apprentice - 2 Lion Sash - 2 Oran-Rief Ooze - 2 Savior of Ollenbock - 2 Scavenging Ooze - 4 Servant of the Scale - 3 Willow Geist
lmk if you have any comment on this one
9 months ago
lhetrick13 thanks a very bunch.
Basically, not caring about competitive at all, tournaments and whatnot, i only play with a group of friends which always use the same decks around.
- One is an elf tribal deck that closes faster than me with their free mana tap untap shenanigans. I have had limited success if i manage to remove key creatures.
- One is basically an 8rack deck, with discards, creature removals, which sometimes i manage to beat if something manages to stick to the ground
- One is a fairies control deck, counterspells, bouncers - hard to get around especially if he manages to counter most of my stuff and then takes control of the one creature i managed to sneak in...
- One is a mill deck...probably should just put in that Gaea's Blessing since he doesn't run single card deck removals like Surgical Extraction and this would be the easiest way to simply render his deck useless
- One is a zombie deck with board resets that he can recover better than i do - found that with this, the easiest solution would be to fit a couple of ozolith so whatever gets destroyed simply comes back the same or close to.
- Last but not least it's an equipment deck with Puresteel Paladin shenanigans. Very quick.
Now, to your answers which ring very true.
- You are right. I think i need more flexible removals - the Inscription of Abundance probably need to go. Most likely need to go. Swallow Whole and Hopeful Initiate sound like great ideas. What do you think of Gleeful Sabotage? This is a whole lot of chunk of the deck to dedicate to "counters" tho. I feel this could dilute the win-con and screw me once i'm very quickly topdecked.
- This is a big issue that i can't seem to solve: green or white card draws come at a disgusting premium - i can't really afford to either Horizon Canopy or Esper Sentinel (i think especially the second would be a pretty disgusting draw engine ahah. If i can give you a suggestion if you are considering Inspiring Call (which i find could probably net me at most like 3-4 cards at best most games...tho it does provide that invulnerability that our creatures kind of need..) there's also Hunter's Insight which i have run in another deck to a moderate success, which i think as a card draw could probably work better. Again tho, in my specific case, i find that these are somewhat slow and prevent me to cast something else more useful (creatures, usually) which means i'm another turn behind on having another viable creature to attack with. I will try and see if Inspiring Call does solve some of my issues with draw and creature destruction (tho, sacrificing is always an issue...but eh).
- Savior of Ollenbock sounds like a pretty good idea, both as a (somewhat dangerous ahah) creature removal and an insurance against explosions. I don't end up with a lot of creatures on the board, usually, so Basri's Lieutenant is a fairly slow (...for my standards at least) card that probably won't do too much.
And we come to the end...what would you cut to put in 8(12?) cards? I can only clearly see 2 cards to cut (the 2 Inscription of Abundance).
3x Inspiring Call (maybe 2?) 1 extra Dromoka's Command (i really like this, since it's so flexible...) 3x Swallow Whole (maybe only 2 again?) 2x Hopeful Initiate or maybe Gleeful Sabotage since training, unless i've got a bunch of Conclave Mentor and/or Hardened Scales down is fairly slow 3x Savior of Ollenbock 3 i feel is the bare minimum to have a chance of having at least one of them down, training and etcetera at the right time.
this would make for 10 or 12 cards - maybe 8 dropping swallow whole and the extra dromoka's. Nothing that would really make this deck any faster tho.
Thanks a bunch...please let me know your thoughts!
p.s. should i just restructure the deck to go wide with tokens with stuff like Torens, Fist of the Angels and other stuff that drops tokens/boosts all creatures? That would probably break my heart ahahahah
9 months ago
Drestlin - I think any deck is going to struggle to be effective against all the types of meta decks you mentioned. To a degree, every deck is specialized and will match up better against certain decks than others so rather than trying to make yours effective against every deck, you would likely focus on making it do what it does better with the hope that its strengths can overcome its weaknesses. Then again, I am not exactly a competitive players so that statement may be complete garbage.
With that said, I am also working on a +1/+1 deck at the moment (I'll Raise you +1/+1...) so many of the questions you posed are exactly the same I have been asking myself. Looking at your deck, it reminds me a lot of mine despite the many different cards and I have a feeling you fair well against creature based decks that rely upon strength. Here are a few things I noticed and some suggestions:
You have a pretty low mana curve with a lot of ways to throw some +1/+1 counters around. The big thing that jumps out to me is in terms of creature removal you are running 2xDromoka's Command and 2xInscription of Abundance will allow you to "fight" target creature. Otherwise, you can not remove any creatures. Have you found this to be a challenge? In terms of dealing with artifacts and enchantments, Dromoka's Command would allow you to deal with enchantments but that is it. To me, this seems like a potential issue. I run Hopeful Initiate, Swallow Whole, Collective Effort, and Dromoka's Command to help with removal while still give me options.
I found that with the low mana curve, under ideal scenarios, I could play most my hand by turn 3 or so and really hit the wall as I would not have anything left to play. At that point I the next couple draws would determine my success. I would guess you run into the same thing looking at your deck. To fight this I added in Horizon Canopy and Esper Sentinel to try to generate some additional draws. I want to do some testing with Inspiring Call as that would kill two birds with one stone by generating some extra draws and possible saving the bacon of my creatures against those devistating board wipes than I can not recover from due to lacking drawing mechanics.
Complete personal preference here but I really like Savior of Ollenbock and Basri's Lieutenant in terms of helping a "destroy all creatures" from ending my game. I usually have Savior of Ollenbock exile my own creatures from my graveyard as a insurance policy so if he does leave the board, other creatures of mine return to play. Basri's Lieutenant is similar that even if you clear the board, at least a 2/2 knight will still be around for each creature with a +1/+1 counter on it that was killed. Both of those make people think twice about playing those cards and I have experienced far less of them playing this deck, than my usual creature focus decks.
Not sure if anything I mentioned was actually helpful but hopefully something was. Happy brewing!
9 months ago
JordoSmith14 I've done some brewing, and this is personally what i'd suggest trying as a +1/+1 counter GW decklist. I tried keeping it as "selesnya-feeling" as possible without sacrificing power.
9 months ago
So i’m a bit confused with the direction you’re trying to take here - it feels like you’re making 3 separate decks and trying to munge them together, with elements of ramp, +1 counters, and stompy. I think you need to pick a path and stick to it without deviation.
For a +1 counter deck, i’d expect to see stuff like Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Experiment One, Pelt Collector, Avatar of the Resolute, Grateful Apparition, Conclave Mentor, Dromoka's Command, and possibly 1-2 Verdurous Gearhulk as the decks ceiling.
For a stompy deck, i’d expect Aspect of Hydra, alongside Experiment One, Pelt Collector, Avatar of the Resolute, Steel Leaf Champion, Strangleroot Geist, Yorvo, Lord of Garenbrig, Vines of Vastwood, Rancor. Note this deck usually has no reason to splash a second colour.
for ramp, your cards should only ever be doing one of two things: either ramping you more mana (i.e Arboreal Grazer, Explore etc), or almost-immediately winning you the game (i.e Primeval Titan, Tooth and Nail, etc). Note these kinds of decks will often run 28-32 lands in their 60-cards.
So, my big suggestion is, to pick a clear path, and then stick to it
10 months ago
TheReal_MtGHaystak - I have had some good luck with Selesnya Charm being a decent removal card for those pesky big creatures or just adding an extra knight when removal is not needed so it has shown me some value...I have not tested out Dromoka's Command yet but it is on the Maybe board with the though of exchanging it for Selesnya Charm as you suggested. It might take me a bit to do the play testing but I did want to investigate that as a possibility.
If only there was a low cost green and white instant that gave the the option to exile creature/plainswalker, make a knight, exile an artifact/enchantment, gain life, fight target creature, or draw cards...I would be in business!