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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Creature — Bird Advisor
Whenever a player casts their second spell each turn, this connives. (Draw a card, then discard a card. If you discarded a nonland card, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
1 week ago
Yeah so the best discard outlet, Faithless Looting, was banned a while ago (victim of HOEgaak that disgusting deck).
The best 2 mana discard outlet in red being played in most reanimation decks is Bitter Reunion currently, because after Persisting an Archon of Cruelty you can give it haste and attack for another trigger which is backbreaking. Here, the second ability is probably less relevant since Goryo's gives haste, but I still think it's better than the other options. The main issue with Faithless Salvaging is that its both slow and you're also going down on card advantage, UNLESS: you play it with cards in your hand, and then cast all cards in your hand, so you only draw a card on rebound (breaking even). Or you cast it with no cards in your hand, drawing two cards over two turns (generating card advantage).
As I said the kind of discard outlet you run generally depends on what you want the deck to do: I'd say they are all tradeoffs between speed and power. On the fastest side we have Haggle, which can be used for turn 2 hasty Boar + Emmy although it requires 4 cards in hand. Somewhere in between but still towards the faster side we have all of the 2 mana discard spells in red. And then further toward the power side we have cards like Collective Brutality. And further still we have all the generally good cards like Fable, Spyro, etc. So basically you need to decide what balance between speed and grinding power you want the deck to have. To try and make it easier I rated all of the options in jund colors I think are worth considering along three criteria: speed, power, and flexibility. Given that this deck is a grindy midrange deck at heart (or at least I think that is what you are aiming for), speed can be useful but power and flexibility are more important in my opinion.
Speed 9 Power 1 Flex 1: Merchant of the Vale (1 mana discard spell, fast but that's all there is)
9, 2, 4: Bone Shards (also fast, but generally more relevant mid/late)
7, 5, 1: Cathartic Reunion (powerful but inflexible, seen in dredge)
7, 2, 4: Cathartic Pyre (flexible but weak)
7, 3, 2: Thrill of Possibility (less all in version of Cathartic Reunion)
7, 3, 4: Bitter Reunion (more flexible vers. of Thrill)
7, 5, 8: Collective Brutality (most flexible 2 cmc discard outlet in BRG)
6, 3, 4: Faithless Salvaging (slow, weak, only generates CA in late game)
5, 6, 5: Territorial Kavu (even slower because requires attack trigger)
4, 7, 7: Seasoned Pyromancer (both powerful and flexible, can generate bodies or CA)
3, 7, 8: Liliana of the Veil (powerful and flexible, threat + removal + discard)
Bone Shards can be used to sacrifice an Ilharg or Emrakul, and if you sacrifice Ilharg it won't get exiled in order to reanimate it again next turn.
Bone Shards, Cathartic Reunion, Thrill of Possibility, and Collective Brutality have the discard as part of the casting cost, so you discard the card(s) even if the spell is countered. Merchant of the Vale, Bitter Reunion, etc do not.
Collective Brutality is maindeckable but the versatility makes it stronger in the sideboard.
Territorial Kavu requires at least 4 basic land types to be effective.
Repeatable/delayed discard effects, such as Liliana of the Veil and Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip allow you to discard Emrakul the turn after you cast them and instantly reanimate them, spreading out your mana over two turns.
3 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
I highly recommend Ledger Shredder, it should be pretty strong in a UW prowess for a couple reasons. You'll be triggering its connive pretty often, which would grow it into a pretty big threat. It can help you dig for gas and discard excess lands. And lastly, prowess decks usually want a certain ratio between creatures and spells, and if you have too many of one or the other Shredder can help you dig for what you need.
Curious Homunculus Flip and Monastery Mentor are some other suggestions I thought of for prowess creatures in UW, both of them are a little slow but both of them can be pretty strong, and especially Mentor can run away with the game just on his own.
The main weakness of mono blue is a lack of ways to deal with resolved permanents, so I'd lean a lot more on your white splash for more removal. You have 2 Paths, but depending on your meta I think you could maybe up that number. I'd also run 2+ Prismatic Ending, since it's the strongest removal in white and you can go up to X=3 if you run a single Raugrin Triome. Some RW prowess lists literally splashed white for nothing but Ending so the card is definitely pretty good in prowess shells.
I'd cut Mana Tithe, Psionic Blast, and Mishra's Bauble for a few different reasons. Tithe is that funny white counterspell, except you're literally in blue so you have better options (ex. Spell Pierce). Also, counterspells typically don't work too well in prowess decks since you want to be casting spells on your turn, instead of holding up mana for your opponent's. Psionic Blast is funny but I think the card is just too bad to justify running it. Bauble seems bad here because you have no DRC, and basically every card only cares about instants and sorceries. It doesn't buff Clever Luminancer, it doesn't let you cast Stormwing for 1U, it doesn't give Murktide a counter, it doesn't flip delver, it doesn't remove counters from TITI.
Defiant Strike could also be a consideration since it's both a cantrip and a pump spell.
4 weeks ago
Personally I think Mission Briefing is probably too slow for this type of deck.
Lack of Fatal Push is a little weird.
Persist is so, so much worse than both Claim and Unearth since all your creatures are 2 or less cmc. I really don't think you need 9 reanimation spells either, so I'd definitely cut this one at the very least.
I highly recommend 4 Dragon's Rage Channeler for another playset of aggressive 3 power one-drop flyers.
Since Delver is more of a tempo deck, Stitcher's Supplier kind of stands out as a card that doesn't do too much. I'd probably cut it.
I see you already have Ledger Shredder in the maybeboard, I'd definitely slot at least 2 in the mainboard that card is crazy strong in this type of deck.
Expressive Iteration is a really powerful card advantage spell, also pretty cheap.
1-2 Spell Pierce is pretty strong in the current meta as well.
Drown in the Loch is a good counterspell/removal spell.
1 month ago
Jegantha is Lurrus lite
I must admit I have never ever seen Underworld Breach in a deaths shadow list like this before. How has it been with Ledger Shredder? Is the idea behind running it to have some recursion after losing lurrus? (Honestly if we still had lurrus it seems even stronger because you could play it from the graveyard repeatedly).
Personally I've been preferring running more copies of Heat than bolt, although maybe there is a bit of antisynergy with Breach. I also think a 2-2 split of Pierce+Flusterstorm might be better in the board although it depends on what meta you are going for of course.
Also what do you think about 1 mainboard Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger? I'm a bit out of the loop in magic recently (like in the last year) so it seems most people are only running 0-1 copies now because of Ledger Shredder.
P.S.: I actually just found one list with Underworld Breach played on modo so I guess some other people are running this card, I'm not completely convinced yet but it seems super interesting.
1 month ago
Card Suggestions Show
I think the main decision you have to make with this deck is whether you want it to be a true control deck or a tempo deck. A true control deck would try to trade one for one and build card advantage before dropping a threat like Murktide or Jace or simply winning with Snappy beatdown. A tempo deck on the other hand would try to turbo out a quick Murktide and then protect that threat.
Mixing control and tempo is nothing new, and it sometimes works quite well. But because a lot of the cards from each type of deck don't necessarily go well together, you can sometimes end up in an awkward situation.
Here, you definitely have a mix of both types (which, I'd like to emphasize, is not necessarily bad). Archmage's Charm, Counterspell, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage, Devastation Tide and Jace, the Mind Sculptor are all heavily control-flavored cards in your deck. They all either break even or generate card advantage, or massively stall out the game.
The problem with this combination in this deck is that half of your cards aim to turbo out a Murktide Regent as fast as possible with Otherworldly Gaze and Thought Scour and then protect it in the short term with cheap spells like Dismember, Force of Negation, Subtlety, and Spell Pierce. The main problems with these cards is that they are pretty terrible topdecks late game. Scour isn't too bad because it cantrips, but topdecking a Gaze when you really needed a counterspell or card advantage engine or a Murktide would probably feel terrible. And all the control-type cards aim to reach that stage of the game.
One example of a problem that arises when you try and combine these two archetypes is in the manabase. Tempo decks typically don't need many lands; depending on the deck's mana curve, we are generally looking at 19-20 lands, and occasionally even 18 or less. On the other hand, control decks almost always want at least 22-23 lands, sometimes up to 24-26 lands in order to reliably play their more expensive spells on curve like Archmage's Charm, Cryptic Command and Snapcaster Mage, and to also always have mana held up during their opponents turn for a reactive spell.
Of course, many cards fit very flexibly into both tempo and control decks, for example Counterspell is just so strong it works in both, while Consider being a cheap cantrip also fits into both types. So in my opinion one of the most important decisions you should make, if you want to make the deck more cohesive and just function smoother as a whole, is whether you want to lean more towards tempo or control.
Quick disclaimer: I think it is definitely possible to make the deck more competitive while keeping both tempo and control aspects; however you should probably then trim both the very slow control-leaning cards (Cryptic Command, Devastation Tide, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), and the cheap tempo-leaning cards (Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Force of Negation) and replace them with cards more towards the middle ground. The rest of the cards, like Archmage's Charm, Subtlety, Force of Negation, Spell Pierce, Dismember, and of course Murktide Regent are all flexible enough that they can slot into both types of decks.
The second important decision to make is what secondary color, if any, you want for your deck in order to complement the primary color (blue). The main issue with mono blue control is that you have very few ways to deal with resolved permanents, which is why most players typically splash white or black (or occasionally red). Blue only has access to bounce spells, which are decent in tempo decks but generally bad in control decks because they are card disadvantage (and also terrible late).
Here, I see you kind of "splashed" black, but your only maindeck spell with black pips uses phyrexian mana anyways, while the only black spell in your sideboard can be casted with only blue mana. In my opinion, since you already have black lands, I would commit fully to a UB manabase by including a few more fetches (U fetches since that's your main color) because it gives you access to a lot of strong options:
Drown in the Loch is a really good spell doubling as both removal and countermagic at only 2 cmc, and only gets stronger as the game goes on. Fatal Push is another great removal spell which is generally stronger than Dismember, although it needs at least around 7 fetches to show its full potential. You can also run discard like Inquisition of Kozilek, although that is more tempo/midrange-esque so it may not be a great fit for this deck. Black also gives you an actual boardwipe in the form of Damnation, which is definitely a lot stronger than something like Devastation Tide since it gets rid of the creatures permanently and indirectly generates CA by trading with multiple enemy creature cards. It also doesn't hit Jace. If you don't think you need it in the mainboard, it can be a great sideboard inclusion. Lastly you have access to some sideboard options like Unmoored Ego.
If all of the blue pip spells like Counterspell and Archmage's Charm have you worried about mana fixing issues, you can run the filter land Sunken Ruins which is great in these types of decks to ensure you can cast both BB and UUU spells.
Those two main points aside, I have a few other card suggestions I think could work well here, some of which lean more control and some which lean more tempo.
Ledger Shredder is a great card which leans a bit more towards tempo but unlike Gaze/Thought Scour it helps turbo out a Murktide while also growing into a significant threat itself.
Remand is a tempo-leaning card that is generally not great in pure control lists, but could be good here if you decide to stick to the turbo murktide strategy.
Memory Deluge has a bit of antisynergy with Murktide, but a very good digging spell if you decide to go towards control.
If you made it this far, thanks for reading all of my comments. I like the deck and I'm excited to see where you can take it in the future. Happy brewing!
1 month ago
wallisface Thanks for your valuable input. Unfortunately I can't buy Ledger Shredder, Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer or Murktide Regent yet, they're too expensive. Gonna brew some decks with Manamorphose. I thought about using creature cards like Monastery Swiftspear, Sprite Dragon and Dreadhorde Butcher with Mutagenic Growth, Gut Shot and Manamorphose for explosive damage.
1 month ago
I think you're going about this a bit wrong. Grixis decks typcically don't want to be winning by any kind of big flashy-combos, or high-mana-cards. Their gameplan is typically to grind away any kind of proactive play from the opponent, and then quickly edge-out a win before the opponent can recoup from all that early-game disruption.
To that end, iconic Grixis spells include Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughtseize, Counterspell, Spell Pierce, and Stubborn Denial, as well as occasionally some stuff like Drown in the Loch, Expressive Iteration, and Unholy Heat. Their creatures are often cards that can hit hard fast, or come with free value - things like Death's Shadow, Snapcaster Mage, Dragon's Rage Channeler, Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer, Gurmag Angler, Ledger Shredder, and occasionally things like Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Murktide Regent.
So, their gameplan is typically a very straightforward one - every one of their cards provides value on its own, everything is fairly low-mana-curve, and the overall goal is to quickly disrupt your opponents ability to play, and then kill them before they recover.
In terms of the cards you've suggested, I would say they don't really fit into any kind of typical Grixis shell, for the following reasons:
Grapeshot is a combo card and something better having a deck dedicated towards making it work. Instead of trying to do value-plays, you try and combo off asap. This archetype already exists in Modern as Storm, so has no real home/reason-to-exist outside of that. Similarly, as Grixis isn't trying to do any flashy combos, Manamorphose & Dramatic Reversal have super-limited/non-existant use.
Lazav, the Multifarious doesn't really do anything or add anything important to be worth building around, imo. Grixis decks especially often have a super-low creature count, which makes its ability pretty niche. Maybe it's a "pet card" that could fit as a 1-of in a death's shadow brew?
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger is a fine card to include in Grixis decks, as many decks already run this (though often as only a 1-of or 2-of at most) - it definately requires some deckbuilding considerations to include it though. I think Ob Nixilis, the Adversary could potentially fit within a Grixis shell, though Grixis decks do often run a very small quantity of creatures, and this may pose a problem.
Now, most of these cards you can still easily build decks around, though I would say you generally don't want to be trying to fit them into typical "Grixis" builds. Some of these cards fit a lot better in UR combo decks (Grapeshot, Manamorphose) for example. I would say that all the cards you've mentioned will have some home within modern, baring only Cormela, Glamour Thief (the card is trash) and Dramatic Reversal (there's just better ways to achieve anything this card is trying to achieve).