|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|New Phyrexia (NPH)||Uncommon|
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( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Put target card from a graveyard on top of its owner's library.
Noxious Revival Discussion
11 hours ago
Not gonna lie, Niv is definitely not the best commander for a food chain deck most especially since the 5 colors makes it hard to be as consistent as you could be.
Regardless, I'll say these things:
It seems like if Food Chain is countered or destroyed, you can't really do anything? I saw only Noxious Revival to get it back and that was it. Considering you're in 5 colors and not running the most counterspells, at a regular cEDH table, that isn't going to resolve. If it does, it will be Nature's Claim 'd almost immediately. As much as finding it with all of the tutors you have will be easy as well as getting something like Squee, the Immortal into somewhere that you can cast him, you're going to have trouble playing all of it. People will not let most of it resolve unless you find a really good opportunity or are playing with lower power decks. I don't say this to hate the deck, but I am saying you need to find a way to either:
- Protect Food Chain with counterspells
- Have multiple ways of getting it back
Either of those would vastly improve the deck.
Best of luck!
5 days ago
Thanks for the input Bighimmy!
So I've gone through the list and my understanding is that you mean proactive interaction/removal. So from the deck list thus far there is:
- Assassin's Trophy
- Beast Within
- Windgrace's Judgement
- Pernicious Deed
- World Shaper
- Acidic Slime
For boardwipes there are:
Now for some of the other options I've gone through in the past I personally don't feel like a few of them are really worth it, and feel free to discuss these since there's always going to be something that I'm missing or haven't really thought about. My thoughts on:
- Chaos Warp : This is an attractive option, it deals with anything and you can even use it on your own permanents to try and spin into something more useful. It means that certain threats don't go to the graveyard (for reanimation or death triggers) and can get lost in the deck. However, from past experience I'm much more a fan of Assassin's Trophy as you can then Bojuka Bog to exile the threat along with the rest of the graveyard. This is a less risky option, and I completely understand why people go to it but I know I'll be kicking myself once a Chaos Warp turns a threat into a bigger threat.
- Gaze of Granite : Pernicious Deed just does everything that Gaze of Granite does that much better with the only exception being planeswalkers. You don't have to sink all your mana into the casting (so if it gets countered it's not a complete loss) and furthermore you can use Pernicious Deed at instant speed, which is a massive way to interact with non-creature permanent-based strategies (such as enchantments and artifacts).
- Go for the Throat / Doom Blade / Dismember / Abrupt Decay : I'm not a massive fan of conditional removal in commander because my rule of thumb is that the broadest answer is the best answer the vast majority of cases.
- Putrefy : for the longest time I played this in the deck before Ravnica Allegiances rolled around and Bedevil took its place. The ability to interact with planeswalkers is fantastic, but the key thing I think is that the inability to regenerate clause from Putrefy isn't of massive concern for this deck for a couple of reasons. Firstly regeneration isn't particularly common, and when it is you're dealing with Asceticism in which case you're not Putrefying anything. Otherwise you have access to Damnation which doesn't allow regeneration and Toxic Deluge which also doesn't allow regeneration.
- Force of Vigor : I started playing this in my Ayula, Queen Among Bears commander deck and in mono green it is the best answer to a lot of early game and late game threats. Current this deck has 42 green cards so there's no shortage of fodder to play this for free on your opponent's turn, but I'm unsure as to what this supercedes in the deck currently.
- Casualties of War : as a budget option this is fine but the sorcery speed makes this lacklustre.
- Noxious Revival : This was on the radar for a while when I was concerned about getting Glacial Chasm destroyed and then getting exiled, however there is not really a reliable way to recur this effect, and it is not particularly powerful (though has some utility due to being able to play it at instant speed for nothing). My other concern was that it requires an additional step to get it into hand, so if you draw it for turn, you would need a way to draw an additional card to then get whatever you need from the graveyard to your hand. As a redundant effect for Eternal Witness I understand, however I think it is too much of a corner case and I would be more of a fan of Regrowth -like as you will have access massive amounts of excess mana from Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers . I imagine something like this will come along some time in the near future, it's only a matter of time.
- Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast / Guttural Response : I find that this angle of interaction is far too narrow to really be applicable unless you know there is a very high chance of versing counterspells in your local meta. This is why I find that Boseiju, Who Shelters All is a better solution to this problem, primarily because it can be searched off abilities and deals with the majority of effects while being difficult to interact with itself. Now the way your opponents can get around this is effects like Venser, Shaper Savant , Narset's Reversal or any other Unsubstantiate -type abilities. I learned to simply accept this as a weakness of the deck given the colours. The archetype is rather weak to its inability to interact with the stack, but I think there are more unconventional ways around this, such as Contamination to punish their mana base or by waiting until your counter-laden opponents are tapped out from trying to deal with each other. I think that this is a fair trade off for this deck being difficult to interact with.
The main weakness of this deck I believe is its inability to deal with mill and combo effectively, vulnerability to bounce effects on the stack like Venser, Shaper Savant and counterspells. I've found that these weaknesses can be reduced with a couple of strategies:
- Playing some political cards Pir's Whim + Tempt with Discovery + Rites of Flourishing to try and ameliorate the board (and not draw the ire of anyone who might have a counter available),
- Building up a solid land base from both a deckbuilding and play perspective to support a late-game comeback due to the lack of cards that effectively interact with land-base strategies, and
- The ability to play around counterspells and interaction, such as Boseiju, Who Shelters All and reliance on using abilities rather than just spells.
So after a little more testing, Elvish Reclaimer is an absolute house in being able to effectively Crop Rotation each turn to more reliable tutor out either ramping or utility land. The summoning sickness issue means that again this does not pull this deck back from the brink in the late game, but as an early game drop it provides access to both stocking the graveyard for Lord Windgrace and fixing mana for the later game. I regret my initial skepticism on this addition and think it is a great upgrade for the deck.
I am planning on adding in Korvold, Fae-Cursed King shortly because I think another Gitrog Monster will be welcome here. I think I'll finally have to pull the trigger on cutting Zuran Orb , it's been there since the start...
5 days ago
Hello, why exactly do you play a food chain combo? Did I miss something? What is your goal with infinite mana?
Dream Stalker A 2cmc Shrieking Drake
Rhystic Study Card Draw if your commander isn't out
Carpet of Flowers Ramp
Noxious Revival Recursion, can disrupt certain combos
Cyclonic Rift Disrupts boards, clears the field for a last swing
Beast Within Any Removal
Temur Sabertooth A bit expensive cmc wise, but bouncing is your friend in this deck
Lotus Cobra Pretty Strong interaction with the additional lands from Chulane
Looks great, but I really want to know, what the infinite mana is for. And how do you flashhulk win without chulane and a creature in your hand? With Elvish visionary and similar creatures? and Probe? You may consider something instant speed.
Thanks for this list :)
5 days ago
As to Toxic Deluge vs Fire Covenant , I think given our dork package, Fire Covenant should be run first. Anguished Unmaking , Abrupt Decay , Despark , or Teferi's Protection would all be worth looking at over Toxic, depending on your meta. If you need another board wipe vs removal/protection, I'm still pretty high on Crux of Fate , Damnation , or Magmaquake —the latter if Planeswalkers are an issue for you.
In terms of power level/competitiveness, I'm still looking to optimize the deck, but have to make adjustments since the whole strategy/deck composition can't really put up a decent showing in cEDH pods (where most of your decklist needs to be comprised of tight or redundant 2 card win-cons, mana neutral or positive ramp, cantrips/card draw/card selection, and cheap interaction/stax effects . . . and blockers for Tymna, assuming you're not playing her in the first place).
As opposed to, y'know, 22 dragons (including the commander), one permission spell that interacts on the stack, and not being able to threaten wins reliably before turns 6-8, possibly turns 8-10.
So I was just finding that even though I had strong/fast starts, the deck lacked enough raw card draw to stay in longer games of attrition that a lot of optimzed to 75% pods end up becoming. Rishkar's Expertise should thus probably be a Windfall , but with the added big ramp from Faeburrow Elder , I've been able to cast The Ur-Dragon more reliably, and drawing ten w/ a free cast has been great.
And in terms of your decklist (our lists' cores are still rather quite close with just a few deviations!), I'd look to cut any two of these four—— Conqueror's Flail , Gruul Signet , Sarkhan the Mad , or Abrupt Decay --for Worldly Tutor and some kind of raw card draw effect/spell. But those are all just cards that I had found either too narrow/conditional and are meta-dependent.
Whatever the power level, if we're lacking anything at the moment it is probably graveyard hate . . . I had been running Rakdos Charm , but that of course can't take care of more than one recursion engine at the table. Yard engine/value decks (vs decks that include graveyard manipulation as part of a winning/linear line) don't pop up as frequently at higher-power or cEDH tables, except maybe Frog (which needs its commander to function more than its yard, arguably), where Deathrite Shaman or Noxious Revival can target an opponent's key yard piece can sometimes stop a win . . . maybe Rakdos Charm gets a bit better with both Noxious Revival and Backdraft Hellkite ? Leyline of the Void fits what I'm looking at perfectly but isn't quite main deck playable.
6 days ago
Making a big impacting change:
This will not only copy any instant, sorcery, but, when, if I use Snapcaster Mage to cast a instant, or sorcery spell from my graveyard, it will instead put the card into my hand, instead of exiling it.
Also when cast a instant, sorcery spell, it will copy it, then put it in hand, so that it doesnt go to graveyard, where would have to either use Noxious Revival to be able to get it vack, recast, reuse it, or would have to Snapcaster Mage it. I wouldnt have to do that, as it would go to my hand, instead of graveyard.
Also Narset, combo's great with Temporal Mastery miracle card.
Draw Temporal Mastery. Cast, play it(hopefully for its cheaper miracle cost), then use Narset to copy it, then Temporal Mastery goes to hand where can discard it to graveyard, then Noxious Revival put it on top of library, where it can be drawn, miracle cost cast again, then Snapcaster copied again, instead of Temporal Mastery getting exiled.
This means that can get a lot of extra turns over and over.
Also Narset's Reversal is just 2 blue, is instant speed(so can do it during opponents turn), and because its a instant, dont have to worry about it getting destroyed(artifact, creature, enchantment).
And I can use Noxious Revival, Snapcaster, and another Narset's Reversal to reuse Narset's Reversal over and over again.
There is just so many combos, shenanigans, synergy, etc, with Narset's Reversal in deck.
Noxious Revival + Narset's Reversal.
Use Noxious Revival to put graveyard card to top of Library.
Narset copy it, Noxious Revival goes to hand.
Noxious Revival to put Narset on top of Deck. Noxious Revival goes to graveyard. Draw Narset.
Use Transformed Jace Planeswalker ir Snapcaster to flashlike cast Noxious Revival to put another card from graveyard to top of Library. Narset copy it, Noxious Revival goes to hand instead of being exiled.
Then Noxious get Narset back. Noxious goes to graveyard. Noxious gets another card back, Narset copy Noxious, Noxious goto hand.
Rinse, Wash Repeat over and over and over.
With this combo, you can put as many cards from graveyard on top of library as want, and be avle to reuse Noxioys and Narset as many times as want.
The only limit is mana, or life, as still have to pay mana, life to cast, so if run out of mana, or life, then that limits.
But other then that can always get Noxious Revival, Narset back, as many times as want, and can cast as many times as want, provided that have the mana, life to do so.
Just an amazing combos, synergy, and an amazing card to go in deck.
thecatch22 on Yarok
2 weeks ago
Deck is designed to use Aluren for free casts of the majority of creatures. Using this at instant speed and other synergistic creatures allows for some fun shenanigans.
Eternal Witness + Noxious Revival gets us as many spell casts as we want. We can nuke the board with Assassin's Trophy or use Swan Song to create birds and win through combat via Finale of Devastation .
Laboratory Maniac could also be substituted in for a win, since you can easily draw your entire deck.
2 weeks ago
I would definitely incorporate some form of self mill strategy. You don't want to mill out your ovens but I think it is more important to get the cat faster. You can use other cards as retrieval like Noxious Revival so you don't have to worry about mana fixing. It would also work really well with cards like Death's Shadow . Ashiok doesn't stop your opponent from searching with cards like ghost quarter or path to exile because they are your spells and abilities not your opponents. Ashiok can only stop your opponent from searching if it is from a spell or ability they control. You control the ability, they can search.
Noxious Revival occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.08%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.04%