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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Oldschool 93/94 | Legal |
| Pauper | Legal |
| Pauper Duel Commander | Legal |
| Pauper EDH | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Premodern | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Tiny Leaders | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Ashes to Ashes
Sorcery
Exile two target nonartifact creatures. Ashes to Ashes deals 5 damage to you.
Crow-Umbra on Michigone
3 months ago
Hi there! I thought I'd try my best to answer the questions you left for me on my wall. I mostly play the "typical" 4-person EDH pod, with the occasional 5 person game here or there. All of my decks are built with a multi-player setting in mind. To answer your other questions as best as possible:
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1 - What is my win rate with Isshin? - This is something I haven't kept close track of, unfortunately. In the past year, I've played at least 20 games with the deck, so I'd have a rough guess that it's won about 25% of the games it has played, and threatened wins another 15-20% of the time, but couldn't quite close it out for one reason or another. My primer has some game logs in the long list of updates if you want to try to read through those. I tried to capture the summary of some of my more memorable games, win or lose.
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2 - How do you win with Isshin in multiplayer? - Damage, whether combat or group slug/drain damage. Any aggro or damage based strategy has to find a way to pump out at least 120 damage over the course of a game, or capitalize on openings made by other decks in peoples' defenses. My Isshin deck wins by making swarms of tokens, and antheming them up with Battle Cry, Melee, or some other static power/toughness boost. The times I've won with combat damage, was typically off the back of Iroas, God of Victory because I had a board that could swing away and was hard to block. This is why I also have the damage effects of Purphoros, God of the Forge, Mishra, Claimed by Gix Meld, Commissar Severina Raine, Impact Tremors, and Brutal Hordechief. The group damage and combat damage help each other out. They both soften up your opponents and help make each other more viable. These damage effects also help you get "around" blockers.
"So what do I do? Lean more into group slug, i.e. put in Impact Tremors? Lean away from wipes and focus on ramp and draw? More protection for my creatures?"
These are all generally good ideas. Adding in more ramp and draw can help your deck with consistency, especially for staying gassed up in the mid-late game. While board wipes are helpful, I've found that sometimes it can get annoying to reset the game too many times. At some point someone has to win, and wiping the board 3+ times in a single game can make it tedious instead.
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3 - "Is it mean/distasteful to eliminate the player that is the biggest threat, then finish off everyone else? Am I a bully?*" - Personally, I don't think so. I guess it depends on how well you know the people you are playing with. If the "threat" you eliminated has a deck that consistently pops off if it isn't dealt with, then I don't think it's wrong for them to sit one out. I've been a similar position numerous times with Isshin where I'll eliminate the player that might be the biggest threat to me specifically or could be the biggest threat to the table. If I become archenemy of that game, then so be it. Being archenemy can be fun, and it can be a compliment. Congrats, your deck is now the Big Bad Scary Thing. This is a game, and someone has to win each match up. Yes, EDH is supposed to be a "casual format", and that means a variety of different things to players, but after all is said and done, someone has to win. Ideally it can be you.
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4 - "As the only deck in the meta with a robust removal suite..." - I will address the rest of the statement you left, but woof, it sounds like the group you played with this time around was maybe very casual? I found that when some of my friends first started playing EDH, they didn't run a whole lot of removal, often to their own detriment. As one friend and I like to echo, "removal wins games". I think you were correct in removing the Ghired's Anointed Procession, but left their other enchantment alone so they could have fun. Ideally, you shouldn't have to be the "Removal Police" and manage every threat you have the capability to. I typically use my removal to A) Address threats most pressing to me B) Address threats that are most detrimental to the table, but will buy me some good will and time to build afterwards. You can utilize removal for achieving parity as you see fit. In terms of this being a good strategy, I think a better question is more about was a fun game environment created? Being "Removal Police" is fun for some and not as much for others. Eventually, everyone else around the table might have to reconsider running more removal to stay relevant and interactive in games, if that's the type of play they want.
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5 - "Board wipes made our games longer" - Going back to what I said a couple paragraphs up "While board wipes are helpful, I've found that sometimes it can get annoying to reset the game too many times" - I personally run 2 wipe effects in each deck. Most of my removal is single target, or can hit multiple things, but isn't quite a board wipe (Wear / Tear, Dismantling Wave, Grasp of Fate, Ashes to Ashes, or Druid of Purification). This is all personal choice though.
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5.1 "How do I recover more quickly after a board wipe than my opponents? Do I need more card draw? Do I need more protection to keep my creatures around? " - Card draw is always more helpful. Upping the amount of card draw is typically helpful. The tricky part is tuning the type of draw utilized and finding the balance that feels right for you. For me I have about 14 effects in my deck that can draw cards in either cantrip single instances, in multi-card bursts, or in consistent but slow manners. It takes plenty of playing to see what feels right for you. I also run about 11 different effects that protect my board. I've found that Flawless Maneuver and Teferi's Protection have saved my board and kept them in tact enough to maintain momentum the times I've successfully pulled them off. Clever Concealment is a new option that is especially good in token decks. Scapegoat is another cool and cheap option for token decks, and also lets you redeploy your board strategically. I also keep my overall average CMC of my deck as low as I can, so in the event that I don't have a protection effect, but have drawn into plenty of material, I can play cheaply costed creatures and removal/interaction/protection while everyone else is still rebuilding.
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5.2 "when is the right time in an aggro deck to play a board wipe?" - This requires more nuance and playing IRL to determine what feels right to you. I typically board wipe when someone else is building a bigger board than me, and is out-pacing me in that regard, but I have things in hand to quickly rebuild with afterwards, or have a protection effect to spare my board from my own wipe. It also depends on the types of wipes you are playing. White has a ton of options such as Promise of Loyalty, Slaughter the Strong, Retribution of the Meek, Vanquish the Horde, Farewell, Austere Command, and By Invitation Only to name a few. I've found it can be helpful to maybe have 1 wipe that is somewhat asymmetric, usually by presenting each player a choice on what they get to keep. This is a double edged sword since.... people get a choice on what they get to keep. While this may not solve the threat you were looking to eliminate, this may at least make things more manageable. I know Ruinous Ultimatum is a popular option because of how one-sided it is, but the restrictiveness of the mana cost can be annoying. Isshin doesn't necessarily win in 1 big flashy play that seemingly comes out of nowhere, like a combo deck might, but does build up a board presence and aggro momentum over a few turns. If you can continue to build and maintain a momentum, and add in more damage modifiers or Impact Tremors effects, it may then open up the opportunity for a big alpha strike turn, or a turn where you make a bunch of tokens with krenko tin street king pin because it stuck around long enough and you also have Impact Tremors and/or Hellrider and will either make a metric ton of goblins when Krenko swings, or you already have a metric ton of goblins to swing with for Hellrider.
Ultimately this is about finding what is most fun and engaging for you to play, and balancing that out with what is fun for your group. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same definition of fun. Some people will think its unfun or boring to get token swarmed or killed with Impact Tremors, and that's okay.
Takeaways:
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Definitely add more draw and ramp. Cut down your mana curve and on splashy, but inconsistent effects where possible.
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Running robust removal and interaction is helpful, but don't think you have to be "threat/parity police" because of it. Other people can choose to step up their removal/interaction suites too. Less board-wipes can be a good thing.
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A variety of board protection effects will help you maintain the momentum you are building. A lower mana curve helps you go into aggro mode faster, and hopefully rebuild more quickly after wipes. Ideally, this also helps leave a little mana leftover for your Clever Concealments, Boros Charms, and other protection effects.
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Group Slug and combat damage help each other out and make each other more viable. You are trying to land 120 damage around the table to take out 3 other players, so ideally you should maximize your damage output and find what works best for you, and what is most fun and dynamic for you.
Best of luck and hope you continue to have fun playing this awesome commander.
DreadKhan on
tBZ_Garna-Bloodfist
6 months ago
I suspect cards like Rite of the Raging Storm would probably work in here, you'd either get in for 5 each turn or get a card, and nobody else can swing at you with the tokens/changelings. Since you can also use Goblin Bombardment after a creature has dealt damage, you can kill any creature before combat actually ends, so you'd still get the card even if they let the creatures hit them. Any token generator that would ever be worth using is probably good in here too, even Orochi Hatchery could draw a lot of cards if people have to block. The best way to force people to block would be any kind of power buff that is global, I like Berserkers' Onslaught in Red, double damage also works well with any other buffs you can add. I guess there is stuff like Judith, the Scourge Diva too. The effect is pretty clunky, but with your Commander Captive Audience looks a lot better, those tokens are much more valuable, and it still usually a death sentence for one player.
Zulaport Cutthroat is a great Aristocrat to look at, I usually don't bother with it but at your budget maybe Butcher of Malakir can be a real nuisance, as can Ogre Slumlord if you're losing lots of non-tokens. If you find yourself running more wipes/removal, Sangromancer can generate a lot of life.
Not sure if they're within your budget, but Fire Covenant and Phyrexian Purge can both clear a ton of other people's stuff. Make an Example might be the best sorcery speed removal effect ever printed, it's non-targeted and uses sacrifice, but you choose the piles that die so you always hit what you need to hit with it. Ashes to Ashes/Reckless Spite can clear a couple bodies. In Rakdos I feel like you want some of the following, Feed the Swarm, Chaos Warp and Wild Magic Surge to deal with awkward permanent types.
DreadKhan on
unthinkable apocalypse
6 months ago
I'm not certain the Commander has enough explosive power to consistently win vs 2 decks, but I have very good results in 1 v 1 with my Rakdos deck, and it often has spare cards by the end of the game, be it wipe or removal, because the deck just runs so much of those, with lots of the removal hitting more than 1 target (I love stuff like Phyrexian Purge, Fire Covenant, Make an Example, and Volcanic Offering can each be a terror of a card, and a deck running all of them has lots of pinpoint removal that will clear lots of stuff out. Ashes to Ashes and Reckless Spite also exist fwiw, and if you aren't certain you'll have creatures out, Tergrid's Shadow can do a bit of work, as can Plaguecrafter or Demon's Disciple, cards Sedris can recur for 2B even. Another value card is Dredge the Mire, which can cheat in the 3 worst creatures in people's graveyards, note certain creatures will kill you if you control them, so check before playing! Necromantic Selection not only clears the field, it also gives you back the best thing, this is extra juicy if you use some sort of Indestructible creature(s) that won't die. If you consistently have a fairly big creature, or one with Deathtouch and Lifelink, Chandra's Ignition is one sided by definition, one of many cards that shines brightly with Basilisk Collar (which is also very good with Jaya Ballard, Task Mage or even good old Banshee, Jaya's 6 damage wipe really is amazing if you've got Collar on her, though it'll kill her too). If you expect to have multiple opponents, Goad is a very strong effect, Karazikar, the Eye Tyrant is potentially pretty solid, lots of card draw. There is also Kardur, Doomscourge that will force everyone's hand. Spectacular Showdown is a great card if you've actually got a board of your own to finish people off, keep in mind that on your next turn, you not only won't have been attacked by any pre-existing creature, everyone else will have swung for the fences with Double Strike, and they will likely have nothing left to defend with, making your Double Strikers very effective. Another Goad source that is great with a creature heavy board is Agitator Ant, which is hilarious a lot of the time. If you're using Goad effects, War Tax can let an opponent have a way around them, if there is a tax to attack Goad fails, and War Cadence is absolutely devastating with Goad, even a tax of 1 to block can make blocking impossible for weenie decks, and you can use either on anyone's turn.
As you've got access to Blue, there are a few non-Rakdos tricks you can use, the most hilarious I know of is Mass Diminish, note that it lasts until your next turn and have a good laugh. There is also Sudden Spoiling, which is powerful but lasts for that turn, or Polymorphist's Jest, which is similarly a 1 turn solution. I use Mass Diminish more aggressively, to make a player hyper-vulnerable to attackers (and make them unable to counter attack), getting two casts is just savage. Visions of Duplicity can create some chaos with it's two casts, Cultural Exchange is obscene if someone else has better creatures. Bident of Thassa is glorious if you want both of it's effects, forcing people to attack is incredibly mean, and this doesn't require you to run a weenie like Goblin Diplomats, but that's also a fun card fwiw. If you're going to run Oriq Loremage, you might slip in a huge creature to Unearth, something like Dragon Tyrant can be huge and not break the bank, Double Strike and Firebreathing are really good together, and you won't have to pay the upkeep with Unearth, he's dead before that matters.
I was looking at your land count and average Mana Value and I think you probably are running too few lands at this point, it's very tempting to cut them, but 30 is probably too few for a MV that is over 2.5. You might get away with adding 2 mana ramp, but I'd still aim for at least 36 lands (or MDFCs that count as a land, you probably already have the best two MDFCs in those colours, but people also run Malakir Rebirth Flip) to ensure you can consistently cast stuff. There is a smattering of ways you can run less lands/ramp, but these all come with downsides, but in Grixis you can run 4 solid Bounce Lands, Dimir Aqueduct and Guildless Commons should be in here as well if you want a lower land count, these let you hit another land drop when you draw them. You might also run stuff like Thran Dynamo or Worn Powerstone to help you hit higher MVs sooner, ramping by only 1 mana feels bad compared to hitting a land drop most of the time, there is also Gilded Lotus, but hitting 5 mana can be rough. Coalition Relic can charge for 1 turn, Skyclave Relic is super versatile/rugged, and Everflowing Chalice can be huge if you want, 6-10 mana is absurd but sometimes comes up. Cantrips like Ponder and Preordain are also good at digging for a land, but I know in Talrand it stings pretty bad when you Preordain and don't find a land and I needed one. As for some cards to remove, I'll take a look, but if I'm trying to build a deck that can handle attention, I look first at cards that will hurt only 1 player, unless that card will almost certainly end that player, either right away or in a few turns.
A few to consider removing (I may be missing why you have them in, so user discretion is advised or something): Archive Trap, Outpost Siege, Palace Siege, Ponder, Preordain, Haunting Echoes, Cruel Ultimatum (this seems insanely hard to cast, and hits only 1 player, unless you can copy it I'd run Captive Audience if I want to hose one player hard), Cranial Extraction, Cormela, Glamour Thief, Kess, Dissident Mage, Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger, Lobber Crew, Loyal Subordinate, Nekusar, the Mindrazer, Obeka, Brute Chronologist, Phenax, God of Deception, Runo Stromkirk Flip, Spear Spewer, and Thermo-Alchemist.Some maybe cards include Angrath, Captain of Chaos, and Cryptolith Fragment Flip (for another land, maybe a better rock, there is Thought Vessel, but fixing is sweet in Grixis).
Hope some of this is helpful!
DreadKhan on
Mishra's attackers
6 months ago
Berserkers' Onslaught is pretty handy if you've got big attackers, double power and first strike is sweet for 5 mana. Rite of the Raging Storm can help by giving you a 5/1 every turn to swing with, while also giving everyone else one to swing at anyone but you, which helps create some chaos as long as people don't run big blockers, and even if most people do, just someone not having a blocker will make that 5/1 a slow, steady source of damage, and people must hold back a blocker for it or take the 5. I like Onslaught with Rite, and if I can get a Mask of Griselbrand and Exquisite Blood you can do a tremendous amount of work with a 5/1, including drawing 5 cards when it dies. Mask is good in general in my experience, evasion is helpful in Rakdos, as is Lifelink for various 'pay life' effects that you might want to run. Some of those include Phyrexian Purge and Fire Covenant, both very strong old cards in many metas, but they work best with some life gain. 2 more cards that cost life and tend to feel pretty good in EDH are Ashes to Ashes and Reckless Spite, hitting 2 bodies is pretty helpful, and black Exile isn't super-common.
Kyren Negotiations are an interesting option if you have lots of goblins but can't swing through a Propaganda. Make an Example is very good value, you choose what dies (not targeted), and each player loses at least their best creature, maybe more). Volcanic Offering is a really solid card that can deal with 4 things that are bothering you if someone else is feeling helpful, but it can never directly hurt you, this can shut down an archenemy with one spell. If you find yourself troubled by Blue decks, there are Boil, Boiling Seas, Omen of Fire, and Citadel of Pain that are pretty helpful vs Blue and 2 colour Blue decks.
Crow-Umbra on
Snowflake
7 months ago
I took another look at your deck, and I think you could add a bit more draw and removal to help keep you in games. Some of the removal you have is a bit conditional, like You Are Already Dead. Some options that can hit multiple targets that are decent are Ashes to Ashes, Dismantling Wave, Wear / Tear. You also can't go wrong with stuff like Swords to Plowshares, Generous Gift, and Path to Exile.
In regards to draw, I noticed you mostly have some cantrip effects like You Are Already Dead. Some potential options to help out include Tome of Legends, Deadly Dispute, and Plumb the Forbidden(especially if you lean into creature tokens). Skullclamp and Commissar Severina Raine are also both awesome if you are making a lot of creature tokens. Breena, the Demagogue can be kinda fun and adds a political wrinkle.
I hope these suggestions are helpful.
DreadKhan on
Lyzolda's Bloody Sunday
7 months ago
Basilisk Collar seems like it'd be pretty good with Lyzolda, she can then remove target creature by sacrificing any red creature (and you gain 2 life). Note 100% on this, but I really like Mask of Griselbrand in a deck that has creatures dying regularly. Mask is really, really good with Rite of the Raging Storm, which was reprinted recently and is amazing value in most metas, on top of which you can just sacrifice the Elemental to Lyzolda before it dies, too bad it's not also Black!
I wouldn't hesitate to run either Ashes to Ashes or Reckless Spite over something like Assassinate. I also would think about Chaos Warp to deal with any permanent that can be targeted.
Not 100% if they're worth it, but Rakdos Cackler, Manaforge Cinder and Footlight Fiend are each small bodies that offer you some utility on a 1 drop while also offering you 1 drops that are both Red and Black.
Not sure if you run into a lot of problematic artifacts, but Viashino Heretic seems really funny with Obosh and some high MV artifacts.
It's pretty pricey, but I'm not sure if there are many better fits for this deck than Ophiomancer, 2 mana to draw an extra card on each player's turn isn't bad value, and you still can block with the 1/1 Deathtouch if necessary (it mostly deters people in my experience). There is also Ogre Slumlord that makes 1/1 Deathtouch tokens, but you need to be killing other people's creatures to make it truly work, though just getting a Rat whenever you sacrifice one of your non-tokens might be good enough.
Very fun Commander IMHO, and always neat to see someone bother with a Companion, pinging is strong enough to be interesting without being obnoxious, and getting built in card draw seems really strong.
Slashdance on
Black Rose - Primer 4 Budget Multiplayer
10 months ago
If you're looking to REALLY jazz up the deck, the following cards would be where I would look first. Not all the cards cost a lot ... but many do.
Ashes to Ashes ... Ashnod's Altar ... Cytoplast Manipulator ... Dictate of Erebos ... Dockside Extortionist ... Fabled Passage ... Glen Elendra Archmage ... Grave Pact ... Guildmages' Forum ... Iron Apprentice ... Mikaeus, the Unhallowed ... Phyrexian Altar ... Phyrexian Reclamation ... Pitiless Plunderer ... Plaguecrafter ... Sage of Fables ... Spark Double ... Swan Song ... The Ozolith ... Unspeakable Symbol ... Vampiric Tutor ... Voidmage Prodigy ... Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
kazeoishii on
Skullbriar, the Moon Walking Grave
1 year ago
removed Abnormal Endurance
Added
Snakeskin Veil
Assassin's Trophy
Binding the Old Gods
Mask of Griselbrand
The First Iroan Games
Belt of Giant Strength
Branching Evolution
Tyrite Sanctum
Loxodon Warhammer
Kusari-Gama
Sword of Truth and Justice
Ruinous Intrusion
Sword of Hours
Witch's Clinic
Reliquary Tower
Grave Endeavor
Duskshell Crawler
Fractal Harness
Wand of Orcus
Eternal Thirst
Lucille
Vorrac Battlehorns
Return of the Wildspeaker
| Have (0) | |
| Want (2) | gypsyjoe , TheVirtualNomad |