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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Vanquish the Horde
This spell costs less to cast for each creature on the battlefield.
Destroy all creatures.
2 weeks ago
Luminous Broodmoth Archangel Avacyn Flip Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines God-Eternal Oketra Gustcloak Savior besonders weil attacking effekte ja trotzdem triggern! The Eternal Wanderer Vanquish the Horde
3 months ago
In regards to cuts as a general rule of thumb, I'd recommend re-examining your cards above 6 cmc currently in your deck, and any cards with a heavy investment (3 or more pips) in a single color. You want to increase your likelihood of being able to play the stuff you draw into. I think of all your heavier cmc spells, Vanquish the Horde makes the cut and Emergency Powers is on the bubble, but the rest can likely be trimmed out. It's hard to justify the inclusion of some cards with both a steep cmc and heavy color investment in a 3 color deck.
I'd also generally suggest re-examining any cards that require you to jump through hoops for a potential pay-off.
Breena, the Demagogue can be an awesome draw option that your opponents will benefit from, but she will in turn get huge and can snipe people if not dealt with.
Mystic Remora is an excellent option for draw, and should be cheaper due to recent reprinting. Plumb the Forbidden, Deadly Dispute, and Village Rites are all potential instant speed options that you could utilize, especially in response to someone trying to remove one of your creatures. Beat them to the punch, draw, then punish them for it.
Lastly, I'd suggest reconsidering all of your copy enchantment effects. Cut 1-2 of them, since those are all dependent on having something else out worth copying. Otherwise, they just kinda sit in your hand doing nothing. That was something I discovered when I used to play Tuvasa the Sunlit lol.
Best of luck!
6 months ago
6 months ago
I think the board wipes that hit early at a low cost are best here. Also board wipes that make the creatures deal damage to them selves. Since Gisela, Blade of Goldnight splits it in half on your stuff, it will not kill your creatures, additionally it doubles the damage your opponents creatures would deal to them selves.
Some of the board wipes I recommend are
When paired with your cmdr
Other good ones when paired with your cmdr
Moving on to other good wipes, and noncreature wipes, and choice wipes.
6 months ago
I am currently building a Gisela, Blade of Goldnight EDH deck, and I believe that it would be good to have one or more mass destruction spells, in the case that I should need them, so I am wondering which mass destruction spells would be best for such a deck.
Blasphemous Act is an obvious choice, due to its synergy with Gisela, but I am also considering Vanquish the Horde, Winds of Abandon, White Sun's Twilight, and Fumigate, since those are all excellent mass destruction spells, as well.
What does everyone else say about this? Which mass destruction spells are ideal for a Gisela, Blade of Goldnight deck?
7 months ago
Hi there! I thought I'd try my best to answer the questions you left for me on my wall. I mostly play the "typical" 4-person EDH pod, with the occasional 5 person game here or there. All of my decks are built with a multi-player setting in mind. To answer your other questions as best as possible:
1 - What is my win rate with Isshin? - This is something I haven't kept close track of, unfortunately. In the past year, I've played at least 20 games with the deck, so I'd have a rough guess that it's won about 25% of the games it has played, and threatened wins another 15-20% of the time, but couldn't quite close it out for one reason or another. My primer has some game logs in the long list of updates if you want to try to read through those. I tried to capture the summary of some of my more memorable games, win or lose.
2 - How do you win with Isshin in multiplayer? - Damage, whether combat or group slug/drain damage. Any aggro or damage based strategy has to find a way to pump out at least 120 damage over the course of a game, or capitalize on openings made by other decks in peoples' defenses. My Isshin deck wins by making swarms of tokens, and antheming them up with Battle Cry, Melee, or some other static power/toughness boost. The times I've won with combat damage, was typically off the back of Iroas, God of Victory because I had a board that could swing away and was hard to block. This is why I also have the damage effects of Purphoros, God of the Forge, Mishra, Claimed by Gix Meld, Commissar Severina Raine, Impact Tremors, and Brutal Hordechief. The group damage and combat damage help each other out. They both soften up your opponents and help make each other more viable. These damage effects also help you get "around" blockers.
"So what do I do? Lean more into group slug, i.e. put in Impact Tremors? Lean away from wipes and focus on ramp and draw? More protection for my creatures?"
These are all generally good ideas. Adding in more ramp and draw can help your deck with consistency, especially for staying gassed up in the mid-late game. While board wipes are helpful, I've found that sometimes it can get annoying to reset the game too many times. At some point someone has to win, and wiping the board 3+ times in a single game can make it tedious instead.
3 - "Is it mean/distasteful to eliminate the player that is the biggest threat, then finish off everyone else? Am I a bully?*" - Personally, I don't think so. I guess it depends on how well you know the people you are playing with. If the "threat" you eliminated has a deck that consistently pops off if it isn't dealt with, then I don't think it's wrong for them to sit one out. I've been a similar position numerous times with Isshin where I'll eliminate the player that might be the biggest threat to me specifically or could be the biggest threat to the table. If I become archenemy of that game, then so be it. Being archenemy can be fun, and it can be a compliment. Congrats, your deck is now the Big Bad Scary Thing. This is a game, and someone has to win each match up. Yes, EDH is supposed to be a "casual format", and that means a variety of different things to players, but after all is said and done, someone has to win. Ideally it can be you.
4 - "As the only deck in the meta with a robust removal suite..." - I will address the rest of the statement you left, but woof, it sounds like the group you played with this time around was maybe very casual? I found that when some of my friends first started playing EDH, they didn't run a whole lot of removal, often to their own detriment. As one friend and I like to echo, "removal wins games". I think you were correct in removing the Ghired's Anointed Procession, but left their other enchantment alone so they could have fun. Ideally, you shouldn't have to be the "Removal Police" and manage every threat you have the capability to. I typically use my removal to A) Address threats most pressing to me B) Address threats that are most detrimental to the table, but will buy me some good will and time to build afterwards. You can utilize removal for achieving parity as you see fit. In terms of this being a good strategy, I think a better question is more about was a fun game environment created? Being "Removal Police" is fun for some and not as much for others. Eventually, everyone else around the table might have to reconsider running more removal to stay relevant and interactive in games, if that's the type of play they want.
5 - "Board wipes made our games longer" - Going back to what I said a couple paragraphs up "While board wipes are helpful, I've found that sometimes it can get annoying to reset the game too many times" - I personally run 2 wipe effects in each deck. Most of my removal is single target, or can hit multiple things, but isn't quite a board wipe (Wear / Tear, Dismantling Wave, Grasp of Fate, Ashes to Ashes, or Druid of Purification). This is all personal choice though.
5.1 "How do I recover more quickly after a board wipe than my opponents? Do I need more card draw? Do I need more protection to keep my creatures around? " - Card draw is always more helpful. Upping the amount of card draw is typically helpful. The tricky part is tuning the type of draw utilized and finding the balance that feels right for you. For me I have about 14 effects in my deck that can draw cards in either cantrip single instances, in multi-card bursts, or in consistent but slow manners. It takes plenty of playing to see what feels right for you. I also run about 11 different effects that protect my board. I've found that Flawless Maneuver and Teferi's Protection have saved my board and kept them in tact enough to maintain momentum the times I've successfully pulled them off. Clever Concealment is a new option that is especially good in token decks. Scapegoat is another cool and cheap option for token decks, and also lets you redeploy your board strategically. I also keep my overall average CMC of my deck as low as I can, so in the event that I don't have a protection effect, but have drawn into plenty of material, I can play cheaply costed creatures and removal/interaction/protection while everyone else is still rebuilding.
5.2 "when is the right time in an aggro deck to play a board wipe?" - This requires more nuance and playing IRL to determine what feels right to you. I typically board wipe when someone else is building a bigger board than me, and is out-pacing me in that regard, but I have things in hand to quickly rebuild with afterwards, or have a protection effect to spare my board from my own wipe. It also depends on the types of wipes you are playing. White has a ton of options such as Promise of Loyalty, Slaughter the Strong, Retribution of the Meek, Vanquish the Horde, Farewell, Austere Command, and By Invitation Only to name a few. I've found it can be helpful to maybe have 1 wipe that is somewhat asymmetric, usually by presenting each player a choice on what they get to keep. This is a double edged sword since.... people get a choice on what they get to keep. While this may not solve the threat you were looking to eliminate, this may at least make things more manageable. I know Ruinous Ultimatum is a popular option because of how one-sided it is, but the restrictiveness of the mana cost can be annoying. Isshin doesn't necessarily win in 1 big flashy play that seemingly comes out of nowhere, like a combo deck might, but does build up a board presence and aggro momentum over a few turns. If you can continue to build and maintain a momentum, and add in more damage modifiers or Impact Tremors effects, it may then open up the opportunity for a big alpha strike turn, or a turn where you make a bunch of tokens with krenko tin street king pin because it stuck around long enough and you also have Impact Tremors and/or Hellrider and will either make a metric ton of goblins when Krenko swings, or you already have a metric ton of goblins to swing with for Hellrider.
Ultimately this is about finding what is most fun and engaging for you to play, and balancing that out with what is fun for your group. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same definition of fun. Some people will think its unfun or boring to get token swarmed or killed with Impact Tremors, and that's okay.
Definitely add more draw and ramp. Cut down your mana curve and on splashy, but inconsistent effects where possible.
Running robust removal and interaction is helpful, but don't think you have to be "threat/parity police" because of it. Other people can choose to step up their removal/interaction suites too. Less board-wipes can be a good thing.
A variety of board protection effects will help you maintain the momentum you are building. A lower mana curve helps you go into aggro mode faster, and hopefully rebuild more quickly after wipes. Ideally, this also helps leave a little mana leftover for your Clever Concealments, Boros Charms, and other protection effects.
Group Slug and combat damage help each other out and make each other more viable. You are trying to land 120 damage around the table to take out 3 other players, so ideally you should maximize your damage output and find what works best for you, and what is most fun and dynamic for you.
Best of luck and hope you continue to have fun playing this awesome commander.
7 months ago
This will be long, probably.
The first thing I notice is your land base. It's pretty important for this deck to reliably get Jor out on turn 2 consistently, and you may be a bit short on lands for that. To that point, you also want to limit lands that tap for colorless or enter tapped to only the ones you absolutely need. While the lands that tap for both and enter tapped (like Alpine Meadow or Sacred Peaks) are nice for fixing, they are slow and ultimately it's up to you whether to run those or not. The biggest one that pokes out to me is Reliquary Tower. Not only does it only tap for colorless, I'm also not sure you're going to be drawing enough cards for it to be any better than a basic Plains or Mountain. I'd keep an eye out for Slayers' Stronghold and Sandstone Bridge in playtesting, depending on how often they go off they might also be worse than a basic. All in all though, land base is pretty good, you just need more. Maybe 2-3 more of each basic to get started and tweak from there.
I really like the amount of nonland cards that grab you lands you have (like Wayfarer's Bauble and Navigation Orb). They're better than Evolving Wilds and cheaper than fetch lands, but if you ever do get the chance to pack some fetches in here, I think you could take one or two of those out and replace them with some more equipment or creatures that like them. You can also never go wrong with adding a Solemn Simulacrum.
I really like almost all of your nonland cards and can think of very few cards I'd want to swap for better alternatives, but I think some are pretty safe cuts if you're trying to trim down to 100 cards.
Some of your Living Weapon cards are really expensive and don't do much other than make an equipped creature, but their cost is so high that you should already have enough to trigger Jor by the time you can even cast them. Others just feel like they won't impact the board enough to warrant a spot in the 99. The ones that stick out to me are:
Mortarpod, which takes up a 2 drop spot and conflicts with casting Jor
- Sickleslicer, which just feels a bit underwhelming
- Skinwing, which feels exceptionally steeply priced, even for an equipment that grants flying
Strandwalker, which is also very steep
There are also some cards which I think either hurt more than they help or don't do you much at all:
Prophetic Prism doesn't offer you any ramp and takes up a 2-drop spot. As someone with a 2-drop commander, you want to minimize the amount of other 2CMC cards in the deck because they get really awkward, especially in the first four turns. Turn two you're forced to choose between playing your 2-drop and your commander, and then turn 3 you have to decide between whichever you didn't choose and whatever good 3-drops you may have access to. It fucks up your whole curve.
- Shuko equips for free but basically does nothing else after that. The same is true for Leather Armor. It may or may not be worth it, up to you.
- Invulnerability may be slightly overcosted with buyback and you may be better running retroactive protection like Norn's Annex or Ghostly Prison.
- Keen-Eared Sentry may not do as much as it seems. Having Hexproof is nice and makes you feel safe, but I ran Aegis of the Gods in Azor for years and it almost never saved me from anything, not only because having hexproof isn't as strong as it seems but also because people will want to kill it very quickly if they do need to target you.
- I love the amount of repeatable combat effects in this deck, but they are worse than nothing if you don't have a board state that can take advantage of it. Some of those slots may be better used on other equipment or cards that care about them. If I were to cut any, it'd probably be Relentless Assault because it's not repeatable like Akki Battle Squad, Aurelia, and Waves of Aggression. This may also apply to Response / Resurgence since you can't fetch it with Sunforger and it's other half isn't super great.
- As wonderful as Lightning Greaves is for commander protection, it also prevents you from being able to attach any more auras or equipment to whichever creature it's attached to due to Shroud and I tend to not recommend it in Voltron decks. It's also a 2-drop. That one is just personal choice though.
- You may have one or two too many cards that reduce the cost of your artifacts. Yours are all so cheap and you may find yourself better off having something that draws you cards or cares about equipment than a card that only helps if you're trying to cast expensive artifacts. Since it's easy to kill and doesn't do much else, Starnheim Courser may at least be worth a cut, if not also Jhoira's Familiar due to mana cost alone.
- Quietus Spike and Scytheclaw have the same effect, which also isn't good enough to win the game on it's own since the damage cut happens after you deal damage, meaning you can literally never kill someone off of that trigger alone unless you leave them with exactly one life. Since Scytheclaw at least has Living Weapon, you may want to consider cutting Quietus Spike.
- Sword of Feast and Famine is good, but it isn't insane. If you don't already have one it's probably not worth spending 50 bucks on.
- The Ward you get from Amulet of Safekeeping in your Maybeboard might not be worth making all of your living weapon and Assemble the Legion tokens weaker.
- I love Assemble the Legion so much. It is one of my favorite cards in Magic. It may be my favorite enchantment period. It is also balls ass slow, expensive to cast, and doesn't synergize with your strategy. That one is up to you. I'd run it just because I like it, but it'd be the first card I cut if I needed to trim some fat.
- Mask of Immolation gives you an equipped creature, but it doesn't do much else for 2 mana. If it equipped for free it'd be different, but it's equip cost isn't cheap given how weak it's effect is. It's also a 2 drop.
- Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith is much better when you can throw his rocks, which you don't want to do in this deck because you want to keep them attached to things for Jor - meaning you're spending three mana for a guy who gives you one equipment that does nothing a turn.
- Leonin Shikari isn't something I'd say you should take out immediately, but you should keep an eye on it during playtesting. If you find you aren't taking advantage of her ability enough, cut her and replace her with something that isn't a 2-drop.
- Wrath of God may be better than Vanquish the Horde. That's just my opinion though.
All in all, what you keep and what you cut is up to you, this is just what sticks out to me personally. The closer you get to 100, the better. If you're able to cut it down to at least 104 or 105, try just playing without 4 or 5 of the cards you aren't sure about and playtest from there, then use those 4 or 5 as your maybeboard. Also this deck is really cool and I like it a lot.
10 months ago
Rasaru - updated the list to reflect what I am currently running with. Big changes including new power like Displacer Kitten/Glasspool Mimic Flip/Chromatic Orrery/Lae'zel's Acrobatics. Invested more into Stifle effects (Tale's End, Trickbind, Disallow, Sublime Epiphany) which power up our flicker-removal value via countering the delayed trigger, some direct upgrades/substitutions (eg: Rout --> Vanquish the Horde, Sanctum Gargoyle --> Archaeomender, Fact or Fiction --> Memory Deluge), and finally caved to the mainboard Eldrazi Displacer.
Thanks for checking it out, let me know what y