do you have a link of where to get that saffi proxy? looks super cool

Since the recent unbanning of Protean Hulk, what are your thoughts on adding it to the list?

SirFowler - I can't 100% speak for enpc, but I know we've spoken about it a bit in the past and it just doesn't feel good enough in the deck. If either of us were still running Boonweaver Giant it'd be a 1:1 swap, possibly, but you really need access to blue and/or black to really get value out of Protean Hulk, imo.

Ok, so now that I can see the comments appearing on my deck again...

warthog177: I posted a response on your profile when I couldn't see the comment on my deck but for posterity sake, the proxy was done by one of the people who attended my LGS, so it's not available online.

SirFowler: Protean Hulk fits into the category that a bunch of cards (like Boonweaver Giant) do, they're nice but wrong for the deck because of the colours. As MrKrabs mentioned, because you don't have access to black, you lose the value that cards like Viscera Seer bring. The hulk combo is nice because it's such a clean package - resolve flash hulk and win. Or even play hulk, sac it to a once off sac effect and win.

But in green white, it means that you have to assemble hulk as well as a repeatable sac outlet, which is 10 mana. And since the victory condition comes from the sac outlet, I may as well just play a cheaper card that combos with Saffi to form a loop. Even a Woodland Bellower fetching Renegade Rallier costs one less mana and achieves the same thing.

If WotC released a green/white free sac engine (and Mirror Entity doesn't count, I'm talking an actual sac outlet) for a decent mana cost, then absolutely would I start to reconsider cards like boonweaver and hulk. But as they stand, the combos are too hard to deploy in the colours.

What about Fanatical Devotion or Martyr's Cause? Or are you just looking for creatures with a free sac outlet? Also, there is always Natural Order to get the hulk out quickly.

The problem with Fanatical Devotion and Martyr's Cause is that outside of either the boonwevaer or hulk combos, they are basically dead draws. On top of that, since the deck is designed so that the creatures form recusion engines and the outlets provide value, neither of those two work with any other combos in the deck. Basically they seem useless here.

Natural Order isn't bad, but my problem with it is that you have to sac a creature to get value. This means that from a worst case scenario situation, it is nowhere near as good as a Green Sun's Zenith which can help me get back in the game. The fact that it's limitied to only getting green creatures as well is frustrating. I know GSZ has the same limitation but it is easier to cast, recurable and forms part of a combo.

I was thinking about lines to get hulk working and the best two I came up with (without having to add a bunch of situational cards) were:

Option 1:

1. Play Saffi and Hulk.

2. Sac saffi targetting Hulk.

3. Sac Hulk to a single use sac outlet (e.g. High Market).

4. Saffi ability triggers. Bring back Hulk.

5. Resolve Hulk's ability, getting Reaper of Flight Moonsilver - (you need to have delirium on line).

6. Sac Hulk to Reaper. hulk's ability triggers, getting Karmic Guide.

7. Guide's ability triggers, returning Hulk.

8. Sac Hulk to Reaper, triggering Hulk and getting Reveillark.

9. Sac Guide to Reaper.

10. Sac Lark to Reaper, bringing back Saffi and Guide.

From here you can loop so that you get back Hulk who can fetch something like Inquisitor Exarch. This line is ok, but you have to have Saffi in play and delirium online before you start to combo. total mana required on combo turn: 7. Total number of added cards to the deck: 3.

Option 2:

1. Play Saffi and Hulk.

2. Sac Saffi targetting Hulk.

3. Sac Hulk to oneshot sac effect. Saffi ability triggers bringing Hulk back.

4. Resolve Hulk's ability, getting Stoneforge Mystic, Hidden Herbalists and Inquisitor Exarch.

5. Stoneforge mystic triggers, getting Demonmail Hauberk (you can technically use Grafted Wargear instead, but Hauberk is simpler)

6. Cast Hauberk.

7. Sac Hulk to Hauber, getting Karmic Guide.

8. Guide triggers, bringing back Hulk.

9. Sac Hulk to Hauberk, getting Reveillark.

From here you can form a loop with Reveillark, Karmic Guide and Demonmail Hauberk and looping Inquisitor Exarch for the win. Total mana required on combo turn: 9 (8 if you use wargear). Total number of added card to the deck: 4.

That being said, I personally prefer option 2 over 1 as the combo feels cleaner and doesn't impact the average CMC of the deck as much (plus Hidden Herbalists is good with Karmic Guide, Reveillark and Greater Good). Having a semi-tutorable sac outlet (on Hauberk) is not weak either. That being said, it's not the strongest sac outlet. Obviously the optimum Hulk line involves a sac outlet on a creature though. Without it, the lines are messy and there are a lot more dead cards in the deck than I would like to be.

I just feel like without access to cards like Viscera Seer or Carrion Feeder that it feels too much like running Protean Hulk is trying to force it because it's a graveyard combo package and it can be good. But without the support to make it work it just feels too clunky as you have to add sub-optimal lines. Ultimately it's about evaluating a card in the context of the deck. If this were a Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck I would run it without hesitation, however here I don't think it's worth the slot. It's for the same reasoning that the deck doesn't bother with the Boonweaver combo.

I've actually never heard of Staffi Eriksdotter... What a gem! That card actually gave me an idea for a deck too, so thanks!

xXxFiR3FoXxX: Yeah, Saffi is pretty great. And I'm glad you like the deck. What's your deck idea?

Driver of the Dead + Saffi Eriksdotter + anything that has an ability where a sacrifice is the cost (such as Bloodthrone Vampire) + anything with "whenever a creature (you control or any) dies, X happens (such as Zulaport Cutthroat). I've seen plenty of sacrifice decks but haven't seen anything with Saffi and the Driver. It's going to be modern Abzan. Any suggestions?

xXxFiR3FoXxX: For modern, I think the better way to go is Renegade Rallier. Same body for one less mana that can potentially get back things like fetch lands. It's also Collected Company-able which Driver isn't.

Your other option is Melira, Sylvok Outcast + Murderous Redcap + sac outlet, which requires less cards to combo out.

Yeah, you're right Renegade Rallier is much better. Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Murderous Redcap + sac outlet is an interesting combo. There's also Blasting Station, that'd be good for Saffi Eriksdotter and Renegade Rallier.

Blasting Station is good in EDH for sure (in fact it's the main win condition of the deck) however in modern, having creatures is better. Because outside of combo, Blasting Station doesn't do anything.

You could easily go 4 colour on the deck which would give you access to both Cartel Aristocrat and Falkenrath Aristocrat at your top end. Plus Lightning Bolt.

Wouldn't Chord of Calling be a good tutor here? Tutoring in opponents endstep to get one combo piece and then casting saffi on your turn to combo.

Sjorpha: you're absolutely correct. That's why it's already in the deck :P

Lol, ok I missed that.

enpc - sure, but why not run 2?

MrKrabs: hmmmm, you make a good point.

All hail Selesnya!!!

ericchen2003: Darn tootin'!

You have a typo in your description. You should clean it up :p. Nice deck btw.

Enivid: there are lots of typos in there :P and I plan to. I'm glad you like the deck.

Since you do not play so many enchantments why not play Paraselene? Useful against everyone else's pesky enchantments. Piper's Melody is also a worthy consideration. Rites of Flourishing could also prove useful. Tolsimir Wolfblood and Sixth Sense may also prove useful. Wild Pair could also be worthy of consideration. Hope these help!

Ravenrose: Becasue of the kinds of decks I'm playing against, generally instant speed removal is better than sorcery speed. Plus removal having the flexibility of hitting artifacts as well is super important. Cards like Natural State would be the next goto for removal.

Piper's Melody is ok, but typically I don't have many creatures in the graveyard prior to comboing off/don't need to recur more than one. Regrowth would be the next goto if I needed more graveyard recursion.

Rites of Flourishing helps my opponents too much, at least with cards like Selvala, Explorer Returned I have control over when my opponents draw off it.

Tolsimir Wolfblood and Sixth Sense don't add anything here - the deck is a combo deck. Getting extra value from combat triggers is nice, but that's not the focus here.

Wild Pair is interesting but ultimately too slow for the deck. There are a lot cheaper and easier creature tutors and the name of the game for this deck is to dig for a sac outlet (which in most cases is not a creature).

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Hello, I saw your deck and I was intrigued by it. I particularly make removal a big focus of my main commander deck and I might be able to help you with that as well as other suggestions if you don't mind.

First off I think there are some easy duplicate effects you could be running in this deck. I notice you are running Spore Frog, but have you ever considered running Kami of False Hope as well? It's essentially the same card and another fog effect can help out quite a bit. Another other card you can run is Day of Judgment. I run it along side Wrath of God and the downside of allowing creatures to regenerate is so negligible that it's practically one and the same.

If you are ever in need of another decent board-wipe I'd recommend Slaughter the Strong. I feel a lot of commander players underrate this card, but it does the two things every boardwipe should do and that's stop go-wide strategies and go-big strategies. Sure allowing your opponents to leave up to 4 power on the board doesn't remove everything, but it sure as heck keeps you from dying due to combat any time soon. Also never underestimate the usefulness of boardwipes that cause creatures to be sacrificed as they remove indestructible creatures unlike your traditional Wrath of God. Citywide Bust is another honorable mention and though my biggest gripe is it doesn't stop a lot of token decks it can remove a lot of key commanders that the other wipe might fail to like Brago, King Eternal, Doran, the Siege Tower, Nekusar, the Mindrazer, and Zur the Enchanter. I'd give both those wipes some consideration based on your meta, but Day of Judgment definitely deserves a slot if you find Wrath of God useful.

While wipes are good I find they work best if you can throw in effects that practically turn off big creatures. If I'm playing a deck that doesn't care much for my combat step Ensnaring Bridge and Divine Presence are miracle workers. Before them I'd always feel inclined to slap down a board-wipe if ever my opponent played a big enough creature that could take me out in one swing. These cards let you hold onto prime removal longer so that you can use them at a time that might be much more dearly needed.

Lastly, before I move on I do want to say Authority of the Consuls is a very superb card. The two abilities together for just one mana allow you an extra turn to answer all hasty-threats, provides an effective edge against creature spam decks, but most importantly this card has easily shut down more than half of the infinite combo decks that I usually come into contact with. Goblin Bombardment, Blood Artist, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, and plenty of other lesser known yet still as deadly synergies all tend to badly need an answer for this card which has helped me overtake games I would have otherwise failed to win without its inclusion. This card is definitely a swiss army knife when it comes to keeping yourself in the game longer as it practically counters a sizeable variety of explosive plays.

As for creature spot-removal you're a bit limited due to your colors as Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares make any recommendation vastly inferior in comparison. That said being less than a very powerful effect doesn't mean your options are bad on their own. Darksteel Mutation is a particularly evil card in this format, while you can use it to answer any creature you don't like, if you place it on someone else's commander they effectively lose it forever if they don't have enchantment hate or a sacrifice effect. Most cases removal leads to your opponent putting their commander back in the command zone, but this by-passes that and unlike Pacifism/Temporal Isolation they can't rely on a boardwipe to fix the problem either. Also if needed you can enchant one of your own creatures to have it double as an all-star chump-blocker if needed. Another option is Declaration in Stone and while sorcery speed and costing one more mana than a Path to Exile definitely doesn't sound too good in comparison, it is still an unconditional exile effect that can also be used to hose a token army if needed. Lastly there's Soul Snare while most people may prefer Condemn which is another useful card to consider, Soul Snare is useful in the fact that all your opponents see and know about its existence in advance. Let me clarify why that's beneficial. If the game is steady with no one in the lead and everyone's got their big stompy creatures out it's pretty hard to attack someone if they know you can remove it. With most cases your opponent's usually wager an attack on the factor of if you have removal. I have had games with the Soul Snare out where none of my opponents wanted to be the person to willingly throw a valuable creature away, and because of this I had effectively kept the entire table in check with a single spot removal spell, which is kind of funny really. That said it is still conditional removal which doesn't hold up well against creature-based infinite combos or Lightning Greaves or politics like when the group decides to team up against you, but for one mana you're still setting quite an impact on the board even if it never ends up being used. In conclusion these spot removal spells do have their flaws so don't take them as auto-includes but rather as cards to consider based on their merits.

Lastly there's artifact and enchantment removal. Before I start I think and feel that the Qasali Pridemage makes for a much better inclusion than the Caustic Caterpillar. While they cost the same amount of mana to generate the same effect the Pridemage only requires you to hold one mana up to use it whereas the Caterpillar requires two mana which is a bit clunkier to hold up if you ever need instant speed removal. Also you can Skullclamp the Pridemage for extra effect whereas the Catapillar does not grant you both options at the same time. I'd only run the Caterpillar if you have inconsistencies getting white mana in your deck and even then I think I'd rather run cards like Sylvok Replica and Thrashing Brontodon just because of their cheaper activation cost and also because of their synergy with Skullclamp. While I feel the Pridemage should definitely be looked at again I feel that any deck that has the colors to run Seal of Cleansing and Seal of Primordium should absolutely run these cards. If you're ever against a blue deck that runs counter-spells you can play these cards in advance preferably at a time when those kinds of decks don't have a need to hold up counter-spell mana. If these seals successfully resolve your opponents counter-spells can no longer touch them. I can say with confidence that the blue combo decks I run these against hate these cards with an absolute passion and just like the Soul Snare effect one seal can potentially keep the entire table at check, but unlike the Soul Snare the seals work far better because their targets are unconditional and you can sacrifice them for free which means you can feel a lot safer if you need to spend a turn tapped out on mana. They are a near equivalent to a zero mana uncounterable Naturalize or Disenchant when used preemptively, and best of all I use them effectively as counter-spell bait on turns I plan to combo-out on, because they are so cheap to cast and can be very necessary to counter due to their impact. (Do keep in mind you don't even need to target anything when casting them, so your opponent always has to presume the worst.) And if you ever run against a deck that runs Contamination you'll be more than glad you have these cards if you're able to play one before hand. I can not overstate the usefulness of these cards.

That's it for removal, but I definitely relate with you on how there can be a lot of inconsistencies with running just white and green. There's two draw engines however that I run in my deck, and I think they could be quite strong in your deck as well. The first one is Land Tax + Scroll Rack. The point of this synergy is with Land Tax you put three basic lands from your library into your hand and then with Scroll Rack you exchange those basic lands and whatever dead cards that are in your hand for new cards off the top of your library. Then when your next turn rolls around Land Tax can put those three lands back in your hand so you don't end up top-decking them. Think of it like playing an Ancestral Recall every turn. Even if you run out of basic lands Land Tax let's you still shuffle your deck every turn so you never have to top-deck anything you Scroll Rack away which is helpful and both cards are particularly strong by themselves, especially Scroll Rack since you run quite a number of fetch-lands to shuffle your library with. (You could replace Tectonic Edge with Ghost Quarter if you'd like to run another land that can shuffle your deck.)

The other draw engine uses Blinkmoth Nexus and Mask of Memory. This is fairly straightforward as you animate the land, equip it and easily connect to gain some card advantage. It's not impressive, but over a span of turns it can help out a lot and using a man-land means you don't have to worry about it getting removed by sorcery speed boardwipes either. I also run Inkmoth Nexus just out of consistency and if you throw in a Smuggler's Copter you can effectively max out the number of cards you draw per turn though the initial draw engine should work fine as it is. (Also both Nexus cards work as good chump blockers if you ever desperately need a chump blocker. Also they work really well if you have both Skullclamp and Crucible of Worlds in play.)

Lastly while it's not a draw engine you may want to include Mirri's Guile as it can also improve deck's consistency, and if you pair it with any effects that shuffle your deck you can effectively remove dead-draws as well. This card along with your Sylvan Library would probably pair excellently with shuffle engines such as Land Tax as well as your Crucible of Worlds which can recur your fetchlands.

I hope my suggestions were of use to you, and I apologize if this came out as a word wall. Also if you don't mind me asking I'd like to know your thoughts on Maze of Ith? I run it in my deck along with Deserted Temple for added effect, but often I switch back and forth on whether to cut it or not. That said running a Maze of Ith with Urban Burgeoning seems particularly good especially if you ever run Open the Armory which can fetch the aura. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it though.

I really like this deck. I would make it, but I don't have the budget.