Combos Browse all Suggest
Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Tiny Leaders | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Together Forever
Enchantment
When this enters the battlefield, support 2. (Put a +1+1 counter on each of up to two target creatures)
: Choose target creature with a counter on it. When that creature dies this turn, return that card to its owner’s hand. (Dying is being put into the graveyard from the battlefield, tokens cease to exist when they are put into the graveyard.)
kirbysan on
[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
5 months ago
Got another couple games in today:
I made some swaps prior to today's match incluuding:
Crashing Drawbridge for Lightning Greaves
Smuggler's Share for Esper Sentinel
Search for Glory for Steelshaper's Gift
I think our decks are still functionally the same but I have a lot of the tech you were heavily considering already swapped in and will be focusing on their performance in multiplayer format.
Starting Hand?: Prismatic Vista, Windswept Heath, Myriad Landscape, Soul's Attendant, Generous Gift, Lightning Greaves, Folk Hero
Forgot to snap a picture of my starting hand but I think it was something like that. Important play of the game was Firkraag playing an early Agitator Ant. By turn 3 I had Giada equipped with a Lightning Greaves and slowly played out my hand, focusing on dropping lands and playing removal. I constantly dumped the +1/+1 counters onto Giada and since she had the greaves equipped she was basically untouchable.
After bringing Arvinox and Ryu down to the low 20's with just Giada I began dumping the counters onto a Bishop of Wings that I drew into so I could start swinging at Firkraag. Ryu also got in 2 Hadokens against Firkraag's board to draw cards. I only got 1 swing into Firkraag before they boardwiped.
I was able to recast Giada and cast an Angelic Page drawing me a card off Folk Hero. I also cast a Pyre of Heroes excited to chain it off for some spicy tech. Unfortunately Ryu was at low life and killed shortly after the boardwipe. As the other 2 players had no board they scooped to end the game so we could start the next, giving me the win.
Starting Hand: Plains, Mutavault, Pearl Medallion, Righteous Valkyrie, Sigarda's Vanguard, Well of Lost Dreams, Steelshaper's Gift
T1 - Plains into Steelshaper's Gift tutoring Lightning Greaves
T2 - Plains (drew) into Pearl Medallion
T3 - Mutavault into Lightning Greaves & Giada (Sworded by Isshin)
This game had some intense interactions. Isshin had a turn 1 Authority of the Consuls. Tevesh nearly played a turn 2 Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools with a Jeweled Lotus but was countered by Muldrotha. Firkraag played a Pursued Whale giving us all Pirate tokens and forcing us to attack. Isshin played into that with a Combat Calligrapher. The entire table started swinging into each other with increasingly multiplying Inkling tokens. After Isshin's Combat Calligrapher was blown up and they took a bunch of damage from their own Inklings they decided to super wipe the board with a Ruinous Ultimatum but luckily their board was pretty sparse.
I lost Pearl Medallion, Well of Lost Dreams, Sword of the Animist, Lightning Greaves and Righteous Valkyrie. This set me back really far but luckily I had been ramping every turn with Sword of the Animist and kept some strong angels in hand.
I recast Giada, and played Archangel of Tithes, Angelic Field Marshal and Lyra Dawnbringer with Mutavault giving me the extra +1/+1 counter. At this point Isshin started going off and nearly killed me with a combination of Tectonic Giant, Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, Isshin, Two Heavens as One, Aurelia, the Warleader but they tapped out for Dihada, Binder of Wills to give Krenko vigilance, lifelink and indestructible. When they tried to swing at me, they forgot about the tax for Tithes and instead knocked out Tevesh and Muldrotha. Muldrotha took out Aurelia, the Warleader as retribution.
On the final turn I was left with only Oblation and Breathkeeper Seraph in hand. I had the choice to use it on one of Isshin's creatures but they were in such a dominating position that giving them 2 cards was probably a bad idea. Instead I used it on a tapped Emergence Zone and drew into Thraben Watcher and Sigarda's Vanguard. With the combination of all the angels I brought Isshin down to 3 and Firkraag cleaned up but had nothing against my board so scooped.
Starting Hand: Cavern of Souls, Flooded Strand, Windswept Heath, Esper Sentinel, Path to Exile, The Ozolith, Teferi's Protection
I debated even listing this game as it was over so fast. Alela burst out on turn 1 with an Island into Sol Ring into Arcane Signet. Turn 2 they played a Smothering Tithe. Turn 3 they played a Bolas's Citadel. In one of their turns they cast a Vendilion Clique bottoming my Teferi's Protection. Despite whiffing for 2 turns off the top of their library they were so ahead with ramp that they quickly overtook the game. I died by turn 5 to 35+ damage from a faerie army beefed up with Coat of Arms. The other 2 players scooped as they had no interaction with the Coat.
T1 Esper Sentinel did some amazing work here. I drew off every player at least 2-3 times so it netted me like 7-8 cards for just 1 mana.
I also attempted to attack with Battle Angels of Tyr but it was bounced to my hand by next turn.
The Ozolith ended up doing nothing this game but that's more due to having no boardstate. Together Forever wouldn't have done anything in this game either so its impact still hasn't been seen. Other players did comment that it could be a problem with a bigger board.
I did have a misplay here as I should have held up mana for removal spells which I had in my hand. My final hand was Vanquisher's Banner, Archangel of Thune, Angelic Accord, Serra Paragon, Valkyrie Harbinger, Path of Exile and Swords to Plowshares. I just didn't expect Alela to quintuple their damage in one turn.
Starting Hand: Secluded Steppe, Emergence Zone, Plains, Pearl Medallion, Thorough Investigation, Angelic Field Marshal, Angel of Vitality
T1 - Secluded Steppe tapped
T2 - Plains into Pearl Medallion
T3 - Emergence Zone into Thorough Investigation and Giada, Font of Hope
I had several misplays this game as it had been a long day. The first was using my Clues too early instead of playing out my hand and refilling it later with the Clues.
Phenax became a huge threat towards mid-game as they had a Haunt of high tower on board along with their commander Phenax, God of Deception. They forced Ghisath to mill 40+ cards with 4 creatures. I had Kabira Takedown  Flip in hand but it wouldn't put a dent in the Haunt. Instead I opted for player removal and swung with everything knocking them out.
My second misplay here was not tapping Giada to cast Angelic Field Marshal which would've given all my creatures vigilance. I was so used to swinging with Giada first and then tapping her that I failed to see her as a mana dork. Since I had Archangel of Tithes out it would've prevented huge swings against me as well.
Since I was wide open Gishath took the advantage and swung at me dropping a good number of dinos on their board. However on their next turn when they tried to use Silverclad Ferocidons with Pyrohemia Jared saved the day by sacrificing Primeval Spawn into a Time Warp.
When I tried to rebuild I realized I had no clues left and no attackers to draw into answers. I also made my third misplay by wasting a Path to Exile on a random dinosaur thinking it would sacrifice Pyrohemia but then stupidly played Bishop of Wings so I could trigger my The Book of Exalted Deeds by replaying Giada.
I died on the next turn to due to lethal Gishath commander damage. If I had saved my Path I could've used it on Gishath and played out more angels for the lifegain.
Lightning Greaves was amazing in the 2 games it was played. It was so great that Isshin focused Giada when it came back out. In fact I like it so much that I'm going to try and find a spot for Swiftfoot Boots so I can keep equipping without removing the protection.
Esper Sentinel was also great the 1 game I got it out. Drawing that many cards for 1 mana is just too good to pass up. If you haven't purchased Smuggler's Share yet I'd say go for Esper first.
Archangel of Tithes was SO GOOD. It saved me from lethal once and would've again a second time if I didn't misplay again. With vigilance it does double duty.
Well of Lost Dreams felt a little clunky in game 2. I want to like it, it has a high ceiling but it needs some prep work to start drawing. Either I drop it instead of a threat or I play it much later. I also need lifegain and the mana to draw from it. With the amount of work that goes into it to activate it, a board wipe usually turns it off. We have no other lifegain outside of creature based lifegain. So we would only draw with an established board presence and we're using mana to draw into threats rather than play them. It feels either like a win-more card or a hail mary to get something good. I'm actually debating its place in this deck and what may be a better card draw. Court of Grace at least replaces itself on our end step and provides either an Angel or Spirit on our upkeep. It also requires no additional maintenance to get it going.
Others at the table commented that Authority of the Consuls is a better option to the soul sisters. While I do like the tap mechanic of Authority, it doesn't trigger off my creatures. Also having it be an enchantment means that most people won't bother with it all game. Soul sisters typically get wiped with the rest of the board whereas opponents have to target Authority. I find that I don't usually hit the payoffs on opponents turn but on my own turn. However, I only hit the magic 4/5 life when Bishop of Wings or Righteous Valkyrie is out, not off a soul sister. I know that you really like the soul sisters but practically every game I've had a board wipe and the payoffs haven't been worth it.
Kabira Takedown  Flip has its uses but in terms of removal is pretty poor for the slot. After a boardwipe it's practically worthless.
Even though I STILL haven't pulled off Pyre of Heroes properly I'm once again debating Recruiter of the Guard and Weathered Wayfarer. Since they're both humans they can chain into our human sub-theme. Weathered Wayfarer can be sacrificed into Bishop of Wings to get our lifegain payoffs going. It also helps grab lands for Emeria Shepherd if we want to recur stuff from the graveyard. Recruiter of the Guard can tutor for Starnheim Aspirant, Esper Sentinel, Inspiring Overseer, Thraben Watcher and can be sacrificed into Mangara, the Diplomat.
Gidgetimer on Stealing a creature from an …
5 months ago
Yes.
Together Forever's activated ability creates a delayed trigger ability. When the targeted creature dies after the activated ability has resolved a trigger will go on the stack to return the card to your hand. In response to the trigger players can cast instants or activate other abilities to move the card.
jwidz on Stealing a creature from an …
5 months ago
Hello!
If I activate Together Forever's mana ability to "save" one of my creature's as it is about to die, can my opponent play an Instant to take that creature from my graveyard before my enchantment's ability fully resolves and the creature is returned to my hand?
Thanks, jwidz
Guerric on
[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
5 months ago
Thanks for all the playtesting and updates! I probably will try out Pyre of Heroes after I play the deck in its current draft a bit. I had been thinking about just some of the interactions you mentioned, namely sacc'ing three drops for Paragon. Not sure if I'd cut Eye or something else for it, but the upside of a tribal tutor engine is pretty good. It is worth mentioning that even in a four player game it's not a given that they remove the Pyre, since the Pyre itself will start producing things they'll want to remove more. The Pyre does have costs associated with it as well, so its not like we are getting free stuff, we're just able to use our library as a toolbox which is useful for us, bit not necessarily threatening to any given opponent. If and when I do add Pyre I will probably also find a place for Breathkeeper Seraph because sac'ing the Seraph for Sephara, Sky's Blade is something that needs to happen. Inspiring Overseer is also a nice little card that I have but haven't been able to figure out how to replace yet. That's also a great interaction with Together Forever. It's easy to forget that while you can't regenerate or stop a sac'ced creature from dying that you can certainly get it back with effects just like Together Forever provides! I think Luminarch Ascension might be worse in multi-player where there are more people to target it. I'd expect it to be better in 1v1 where you could be against an opponent in colors that are bad at removing enchantments. In my case I know my group will insta-kill it, so if I am going for a mana sink Starnheim Unleashed is more likely to get the job done if I play it when it is likely to resolve. And personally I'm just really not into The Ozolith, though I could always be wrong and am open to hearing about how it performs. Thanks again for everything! Those are some great interactions and that is super helpful!
kirbysan on
[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
5 months ago
I wasn't able to play a multiplayer game this weekend but ran 9 games of 1v1. I won 7/9 games as unblocked angels seems to be consistently good. 6 games were against Necron Precron, 2 games against Faldorn Exiles & 1 game against Aesi Landfall. Made a couple swaps to give Pyre of Heroes a shot. Didn't touch the lifegain package but messed with the protection one. Since all 9 games were duels, some of the changes weren't great.
Eye of Vecna for Pyre of Heroes
Cosmic Intervention for The Ozolith
Angel of Condemnation for Karmic Guide
Angel of Jubilation for Inspiring Overseer
Starnheim Unleashed for Luminarch Ascension
Search for Glory for Enlightened Tutor
I notably left in Together Forever and didn't put in Breathkeeper Seraph because I wanted to see if there were synergies between Together Forever and Pyre of Heroes.
Lost 1 game against Necron Precon due to a combination of things. I missed 2 land drops early in the game and was forced to use Enlightened Tutor for a Sol Ring so I could play my hand. Later in the game Ioverplayed the hand and got hit by Shard of the Nightbringer followed by Their Name is Death on the next turn. I was definitely kicking myself at the end because I had Emeria Shepherd and played it when I should've held it. Necrons actually did pretty well against this deck overall as they had fliers which stopped some early attacks. In the end though, as with most precons, they ran out of gas while Angels could keep chugging along and beefing up.
Lost 1 game against Faldorn Exiles due to Food Chain & Eternal Scourge with Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald producing a million wolves on turn 4. With no answers in hand, it was a quick and clear loss.
I was able to get Pyre of Heroes out in several games. One of my favorite combinations was using it on Inspiring Overseer to drop in Serra Paragon and then recasting Inspiring Overseer for the extra life and draw. On the following turn I sacrificed it again to grab Battle Angels of Tyr and hit for even more draw.
During the final game against Aesi Landfall I wanted to see how much value I could get out of Pyre of Heroes so I kept an obviously risky hand. My starting hand consisted of Arid Mesa, Plains, Fabled Passage, Emergence Zone, Mutavault, Pyre of Heroes, and Path to Exile. Aesi had a pretty slow start without much ramp but dropped Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait turn 5 which I promptly pathed. The only Angel I drew was Angelic Curator which I pyred into Inspiring Overseer. I also had Together Forever on the board so when I pyred Inspiring Overseer into Serra Paragon I was able to bounce it back to hand and recast Angelic Curator on the same turn. Next turn I cast Inspiring Overseer and pyred that into Thraben Watcher and started swinging for lots of damage.
In a multiplayer game other players would've had more answers for our board and Pyre of Heroes may not stick around. However, I don't think it seems threatening on its own and most times it's just a value engine. I think there may be a case for swapping it out for Eye of Vecna. They cost the same for 2 colorless. Their activations are also the same at 2 colorless. The differences are the 2 damage we take for Vecna and also that the draw occurs on upkeep before our draw phase and we have to pay the 2 and life if we want the card. If we drop Vecna early game and we're looking for something key, usually a land or a low cost angel and there's no guarantee that we'll get it. So if we're on turn 4, we've expended 2/3 available mana on drawing either a land or a 2cmc angel because we can't play anyting else. If we aren't dropping Vecna early and instead on turn 6-7 then it's pretty slow compared to its counterparts. Yes it replaces itself but nothing else we do will give us cards the turn we need it. All the other draw cards play into our strategy of either playing angels, attacking or gaining life. Also, the ones we pay into can be done on opponents turn when we're holding up answers, so there's no "wasted mana".
Out of the current swaps The Ozolith and Luminarch Ascension were very mediocre. This is likely due to the duel format and will need more testplaying in a 4-man setting. I was able to get The Ozolith up to 18 counters one game but it didn't matter since I was dead the next turn.
I think just based on this trial run that Pyre of Heroes deserves a strong consideration especially with Inspiring Overseer. Let me know your thoughts!
Guerric on
[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
6 months ago
Pyre of Heroes is a card I love that I've definitely considered putting in here, and which I may put in here still. It is at its best in toolbox tribal decks, and is arguably one of the all-stars of my Inalla, Archmage Ritualist deck, and should probably go into my elfball deck as well. It's main advantage here is that it allows us to tutor out whatever angel we want, though we do so at the cost of some mana and an angel which costs less. There are instances where this can be great, such as to get Linvala, Keeper of Silence out when we want her, or to help to form Brisela. It could also help us replace angels targeted with single target removal- if we have mana open we can just sac the targeted angel and bring something else out in its place for short mana. It would also give us tutoring that we don't have a lot of in white. It wouldn't be broken in this deck the way it is in tribal decks with more toolbox effects, but it might not draw as much hate either. If I do put it in, Together Forever is the sort of card I might put it in in place of. While it isn't as good in a board wipe, it is arguably better in many situations with targeted removal as we can just replace the lost piece with a costlier spell.
I think Pyre of Heroes could be good regardless of whether we have the combo, but Breathkeeper Seraph is a card I am a bit more dicey on. While on its own it definitely protects itself and one other creature from destruction (but not exile, bouncing, etc) it costs 6 mana, and I am pretty picky with cards in that range. In the combo it's amazing and works as a draw piece, but outside of the combo I'm not too jazzed about it, though I am open to it and certainly don't think it's useless. Unexpected synergies like these can make the deck stronger if they don't weaken our primary gameplan too much.
The Ozolith is a card that's been suggested and considered from the beginning along with a host of other counter-moving shenanigans cards. While I think it's the most worthy inclusion of such cards, I've still never been personally too jazzed about it. We aren't really focused on counters shenanigans in this deck as we leave those to Ghave, Guru of Spores and Heliod/Ballista decks, and devoting more than one card to this subtheme would water down our gold-fishing. This card on its own could protect our counters as you say, but I'm just not sure it would work so well as to be worth it. This might just me my playgroup, but artifact hate of all kinds (destruction, bouncing, etc) is plentiful and this is exactly the sword of card they would blow up as a matter of principle, especially if they just board wiped and wanted to make sure I couldn't just put those counters on the first creature that I play afterwards. If I thought it would work out I would be more open to it, but I see it doing nothing more often than not in my group. Nonetheless, I wouldn't see any harm in trying it out. Every play group is different and sometimes things could be possible like knocking someone out with commander damage by putting them on Giada. I don't see this being likely in my groups, but I could be wrong!
kirbysan on
[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
6 months ago
All fair points on the cards listed. I think I'll need to keep test playing against more decks to see. I just had an issue of not having the specific hate-bear angel when I needed it and only hoping that I could draw into it. Also I never pulled Crashing Drawbridge in any game so hasty angels never happened for me. I did have Emergence Zone once but I was holding answers in hand rather than large angels.
I was perusing reddit to see how other people built Giada and came across an interesting synergy between Pyre of Heroes & Breathkeeper Seraph. We usually wait for a board wipe to cause our creatures to die and then spend the mana to recur them, but this is one way to abuse it. But sitting at 7/10 wins I'm not sure if it's worth trying to introduce another sub-theme just for the kicks.
Also, I was pondering the Together Forever slot because I feel like The Ozolith may be a better choice. While it doesn't save the angels that died, it does save the counters and that momentum. Also there are now quite a few board-wipes that are exile instead of destroy which would circumvent Together Forever whereas The Ozolith only cares if they leave the battlefield.
Between Pyre of Heroes & The Ozolith you could potentially sacrifice an angel that may not have an adequate body to grab one that helps with combat while not giving up the counters that you've already built on it. Also between Serra Paragon & Emeria Shepherd I'm not as scared when non-creature permanents go to the graveyard by way of Vandalblast or Bane of Progress. I know this would take up a bunch of slots but it's food for thought.
Guerric on
[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
6 months ago
Thanks for the input! I think I'll probably cut Sigarda's Splendor after all. I haven't seen Vanquisher's Banner be bad yet, so I'll keep monitoring things but it's probably better to go for the high ceiling low floor type cards when we get above 3 cmc. As for Darksteel Mutation, the key is simply having a removal place to take the spot of Harsh Mercy. I've found that several times when I had it in hand I didn't need a board wipe but did want a targeted removal. That card wasn't good for that since each player gets to pick a creature type to keep, so it went. Mutation is nice since it can sideline a commander at least temporarily, though there are ways around it. Another good option is Fateful Absence, which simply destroys a creature or planeswalker, but which can be done at instant speed. Either way, it doesn't have to be integral, we just want to up the efficient removal with this slot.
As for other cards, my thoughts are as follows. Linvala, Keeper of Silence is the easiest because this card has saved my bacon more times than I can recount, and has been a true all star for me. I expected her to be fine but she's been a real star. Angel of Jubilation is also solid. We're always happy to have the anthem and when her second ability comes into play we'll be very glad we have her as she shuts down some of the more degenerate shenanigans in the format. Search for Glory is another easy one, and is a very underrated card. We have a lot of amazing legends here, and she can tutor all of them. One which I have used multiple times is tutoring Sephara, Sky's Blade and then immediately playing her for .
Together Forever is a board protection piece and the theory on it is good. I haven't seen it as often as other cards, but when I have I've played it, used it, and been glad to have it. It doesn't stop our pieces from being destroyed per se, but it does preserve the cards themselves for the cheap cost of per card. The biggest danger in this deck is getting blown out with an empty hand, and this ensures that we can at least have a hand if we play carefully. It is also good in less dramatic situations though. When I've enjoyed it most is when I've used it to save Sephara, Sky's Blade only to immediately replay her for the next turn, something that vexed my opponents greatly. Now if I were putting Avacyn in I could consider cutting this card since it is in the same category (sort of), but I've found it to be good and plan on keeping it for the time being. Starnheim Unleashed in this deck is the sort of token splashy card that allows for a big play that can put us over the top. It's not critical to the function of the deck, but where it is good it is generally pretty great. The ceiling is to play it with Crashing Drawbridge on the board or to flash it out on the end step right before our turn with Emergence Zone, where the element of surprise can take over the game. That being said, if you wanted to slot Luminarch Ascension in, something I have thought about doing, it could go in place of this as it has a similar function in terms of being able to pump out a massive amount of angel tokens. Luminarch Ascension has added value as a permanent since it can generate angels repeatedly for small mana. It'd downside is that there is no element of surprise. Our opponents will instantly know the threat it poses and will likely work to remove it as quickly as they can, possibly before we get to activate it at all. I think both cards are good and can justify a place in the deck, though I wouldn't say either is essential.
Angel of Condemnation is a card that I have pondered cutting and haven't really used too much in my playtesting so far, though it's certainly not bad and the theory on it is good. It's one of those cards with a lot of utility. On the one hand it is a removal piece, and a think we can use extra mana on at instant speed to repeatedly disrupt our opponents. Often we shouldn't need to exert him. Just blinking our opponents degenerate piece on their upkeep will generally keep them from exploiting it during their turn. Of course if we do exert him we can sideline a piece until an opponent removes him, and usually only the opponent who owns the degenerate piece will be willing to do so. This card can also be useful on our own stuff. We'll be happy to blink Sanctuary Warden for an extra card sometimes, or maybe blink any of our creatures to gain life off of Bishop of Wings and make an angel token off of Resplendent Angel or put some counters on stuff with Archangel of Thune. I've played enough blink decks to know that we tend to find all sorts of synergies like this if we have a card like this one in the deck and are looking for them.
Needless to say I am pretty happy with the list in general, and most of the cards I haven't liked I've cut. This doesn't mean we can't cut these or any other cards, but the threshold of a new card needs to be high for me to consider it.
| Have (4) | orzhov_is_relatively_okay819 , Rogue_Prince , TheRealSpecialK , Galdelonian |
| Want (2) | Amaterasu312 , Jayce_Ran |