Thorough Investigation
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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Alchemy Legal
Archenemy Legal
Arena Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Gladiator Legal
Highlander Legal
Historic Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Planechase Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Thorough Investigation

Enchantment

Whenever you attack, investigate. (Create a colorless Clue artifact token with “, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.”)

Whenever you sacrifice a Clue, venture into the dungeon. (If you aren't venturing through a dungeon, choose one of the dungeon cards you own from outside the game, put it into the command zone and put a venture counter on the first room of that dungeon. All effects of that room trigger. When you venture into the dungeon while you have a dungeon in the command zone, advance to the next room downward of your choice and triggering all effects of that room. When you have resolved the effects of the last room of the dungeon, remove that dungeon from the game. You can only venture through one dungeon at a time.)

pacct on Dungeon Run

3 days ago

1xDungeon Descent rein 3xCounterspell und 1xThorough Investigation und 1xTeleportation Circle raus dafür 4xPower Word Kill rein. Von den legendären karten 2x sollte ausreichen. Dafür Precipitous Drop rein 3x weitere Karten noch rein.

Michigone on Isshin for a Fight

1 month ago

Change Log 12-Feb-2023

Move to Maybe Board:

Add/Move to Main Board:

Crow-Umbra on Isshin for a Fight

1 month ago

Happy to help! I saw your questions on my wall this morning and immediately sat at my laptop to get my thoughts down.

I think you're on the right track with the changes you're making. In looking at your list, there are a few more cards that I think deserve a little more "food for thought" reexamination. These aren't bad cards by any means, but are maybe ones that don't fit as cleanly or synergistically as one might want, or offer a bit too much redundancy:

  • Thorough Investigation - The dungeon value can be helpful. I think it depends on which dungeon you will primarily be venturing into. I'm not the biggest fan of clue tokens for drawing, but that's a personal preference of mine, at least not for Isshin.

  • Whispersilk Cloak - A cool protection equipment for sure. I think could be a bit better suited in a more dedicated Voltron list, or deck that is much more focused on its commander sticking around. I think Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots achieve the protection and haste that the deck needs more than the unblockable element.

  • Anointed Procession - Mostly saying this since you already have Mondrak, Glory Dominus in main board. Some redundancy is nice, but are 2 token doubling effects really needed? Isshin doubles your token generating triggers from attacks, and Anointed or Mondrak are just some additional fuel to that fire. I personally give a bit of edge in keeping Mondrak over Anointed, primarily because Mondrak can protect itself and chump block or attack well, and it's a creature that Delina, Wild Mage can copy...

  • Cathars' Crusade - I like this a bit more for decks that are more focused on utilizing the +1/+1 counter element to a fuller extent. If you have had success with it in this deck and like it, then absolutely disregard this suggestion.

I think you could stand to add 2-3 more lands back, especially since your average cmc is closer to 3. Lastly, I'd say check out Professional Face-Breaker, as she rewards you for going wide. She offers some options for either using the treasure generated for additional acceleration, or to help dig for cards. I've liked her when I've had the chance to play her in a couple different decks.

Ultimately, ask yourself what is most fun for you, and what gives you most joy when you play the deck? What can help you achieve that joy most consistently, even if the deck doesn't win games super consistently.

Michigone on Isshin for a Fight

1 month ago

Change Log 12-Feb-2023

Move to Maybe Board:

Add/Move to Main Board:

kirbysan on [Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*

2 months ago

Guerric

Last game of the year! Sorry I've taken over your comment board, hope all these gameplay interactions help!

Opponents: Koma, Cosmos Serpent, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools / Armix, Filigree Thrasher

Starting Hand: Marsh Flats, Plains, Sol Ring, Serra Ascendant, Serra Avenger, Court of Grace, Breathkeeper Seraph

T1 - Marsh Flats into Plains into Serra Ascendant

T2 - Plains into Sol Ring and Luminarch Ascension (drew into), swung in for 6 damage

T3 - Plains into Court of Grace, drew on endstep, swung in for another 6 damage

T4 - +1 Angel on upkeep, Plains into Giada, Font of Hope and held up mana to make 2 Angels, drew on endstep, swung in for another 6 damage

T5 - created 2 Angels (6 power & 7 power) on opponents end step, +1 Angel (8 power) on upkeep. Cast a Tome of Legends getting ready for the boardwipe. Swung in for 21 damage, drew on endstep.

T6 - nobody at the table had the boardwipe so I cleaned up next turn with Sigarda's Vanguard knocking out each other player simultaneously. I think this was the fastest this deck has ever performed in a 4-man pod and all the damage was dealt by me.

Opponents: Koma, Cosmos Serpent, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools / Armix, Filigree Thrasher, O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami

Starting Hand: Windswept Heath, Arid Mesa, Plains, Bonders' Enclave, Serra Paragon, Gisela, the Broken Blade  Meld, Archangel of Thune

Thought about not including this one either as it was a slow hand and a fast game. Muldrotha comboed out turn 4 making 2 million squirrels and nobody had any interaction so we were dead on turn 5.

Opponents: Koma, Cosmos Serpent, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools / Armix, Filigree Thrasher, O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami

Starting Hand: Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Plains, Plains, Pyre of Heroes, Gisela, the Broken Blade  Meld, Battle Angels of Tyr, Angelic Curator

I had played Battle Angels of Tyr but it was quickly removed by Tevesh before I could swing with it, which is fair given a 5-man pod.

Instead I went for the slower play with Giada, Font of Hope, Angelic Curator and Angelic Sleuth on the field. I held Pyre of Heroes in hand thinking I would go for the Inspiring Overseer / Serra Paragon line to draw into some cards and get some clues.

However, Muldrotha again was a huge problem turn 5. They had Scute Swarm and cracked some fetches and played green ramp spells bringing up their total to the low 100s but they only had 32 they could attack with. They decided to swing all of them at me as I was the only one with any sort of board presence. O-Kagachi let the table know they had a fog effect but we elected to use it on the next turn.

At this point I had Giada, Font of Hope, Angelic Sleuth, Righteous Valkyrie and Pyre of Heroes on the battlefield. Once Muldrotha had started producing massive amounts of Scutes I knew they were coming at me. Also I had drawn into Archangel of Thune which I played and swung in bringing me back up to the low 20's.

On turn 6 O-Kagachi used the fog and Muldrotha just set themselves up better for the next round. They cast a Sandwurm Convergence to stop me from knocking them out.

Tevesh decided this was the best time to go off so they tapped out for a Peer into the Abyss. A lot of artifact shenanigans happened and they ended up at 4 life due to Bolas's Citadel, nearly wiped the board with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and killed Muldrotha with an artifact creature with Cranial Plating and Lightning Greaves. Unfortunately they didn't see that O-Kagachi was out and only -5 for Ugin so they were dead to the dragon on their turn.

I was able to build back relatively quickly as I drew into a Thorough Investigation and cracked some clues. O-Kagachi became the new archenemy as they had their commander out and a Fist of Suns so they were casting high-costed cards with the limited mana they had. Koma used Kiora, the Crashing Wave to negate the damage of O-Kagachi's commander. They also countered a Conflux which could've ended the game.

I tried to swing in once but was stopped by a fog. I also made another misplay with Oblation targeting their Myojin of Seeing Winds as I misheard thinking it was a 10/10 flying indestructible when it was a 3/3 that didn't even fly. They removed the divinity counter drawing 12 and drew another 2 off Oblation. Next turn they cast a Morophon, the Boundless and dropped all the spirits they drew off those 14 cards. If I had held up my Oblation for their fist of the suns instead they would have had no mana for anything else and I could've swung in for the win.

Luminarch Ascension finally popped off! When unanswered it just ends games. Even with a boardwipe it can refill the board with mana. With Giada out it adds lethal threats quickly. I understand that it may not have the surprise factor but I think the resiliency is more important here. As you've mentioned before, not a lot of people run enchantment removal as creature removal is preferable which means this has staying power.

Court of Grace was also amazing here. While 1 card a turn is not the best for 4 mana, 1 card and 1 angel for 4 is amazing. Obviously the Sol Ring did work in getting it out early but against slower decks they had no way to attack me regardless.

Pyre of Heroes was actually useful this time! Pitching the 2/2 body of Angelic Curator into a Righteous Valkyrie is a strong move. I was only able to use it once before the Ugin exile but it helped keep me in the game. Without it, I would've been dead right after Tevesh finished off Muldrotha, perhaps even in the same turn.

Sigarda's Vanguard was also great again. However if I'm not planning out dropping my angels out in the correct turn order then I'm not always getting the full benefit from her. Akroma's Will would save us the headache of counting and planning while also providing the evasion to get through flying creatures. I think I'll still stick the Vanguard as the light recursion package allows us to bring her back on another turn for additional value whereas Will would just languish in the graveyard.

We had a turn 0 discussion before games 2 and 3 and agreed on playing more mid-tier decks as I only brought Giada. The Muldrotha player typically durdles with nothing to do and decided to add in some spicy cards not knowing how they'd perform. Tevesh doesn't always go off like this but Peer into the Abyss is usually a card that gets countered. The table let it resolve due to needing to knock out Muldrotha first.

kirbysan on [Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*

3 months ago

Guerric

Got another couple games in today:

I made some swaps prior to today's match incluuding:

Crashing Drawbridge for Lightning Greaves

Smuggler's Share for Esper Sentinel

Search for Glory for Steelshaper's Gift

I think our decks are still functionally the same but I have a lot of the tech you were heavily considering already swapped in and will be focusing on their performance in multiplayer format.

Opponents: Arvinox, the Mind Flail, Firkraag, Cunning Instigator, Ryu, World Warrior

Starting Hand?: Prismatic Vista, Windswept Heath, Myriad Landscape, Soul's Attendant, Generous Gift, Lightning Greaves, Folk Hero

Forgot to snap a picture of my starting hand but I think it was something like that. Important play of the game was Firkraag playing an early Agitator Ant. By turn 3 I had Giada equipped with a Lightning Greaves and slowly played out my hand, focusing on dropping lands and playing removal. I constantly dumped the +1/+1 counters onto Giada and since she had the greaves equipped she was basically untouchable.

After bringing Arvinox and Ryu down to the low 20's with just Giada I began dumping the counters onto a Bishop of Wings that I drew into so I could start swinging at Firkraag. Ryu also got in 2 Hadokens against Firkraag's board to draw cards. I only got 1 swing into Firkraag before they boardwiped.

I was able to recast Giada and cast an Angelic Page drawing me a card off Folk Hero. I also cast a Pyre of Heroes excited to chain it off for some spicy tech. Unfortunately Ryu was at low life and killed shortly after the boardwipe. As the other 2 players had no board they scooped to end the game so we could start the next, giving me the win.

Opponents: Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools/Armix, Filigree Thrasher, Firkraag, Cunning Instigator, Isshin, Two Heavens as One, Muldrotha, the Gravetide

Starting Hand: Plains, Mutavault, Pearl Medallion, Righteous Valkyrie, Sigarda's Vanguard, Well of Lost Dreams, Steelshaper's Gift

T1 - Plains into Steelshaper's Gift tutoring Lightning Greaves

T2 - Plains (drew) into Pearl Medallion

T3 - Mutavault into Lightning Greaves & Giada (Sworded by Isshin)

This game had some intense interactions. Isshin had a turn 1 Authority of the Consuls. Tevesh nearly played a turn 2 Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools with a Jeweled Lotus but was countered by Muldrotha. Firkraag played a Pursued Whale giving us all Pirate tokens and forcing us to attack. Isshin played into that with a Combat Calligrapher. The entire table started swinging into each other with increasingly multiplying Inkling tokens. After Isshin's Combat Calligrapher was blown up and they took a bunch of damage from their own Inklings they decided to super wipe the board with a Ruinous Ultimatum but luckily their board was pretty sparse.

I lost Pearl Medallion, Well of Lost Dreams, Sword of the Animist, Lightning Greaves and Righteous Valkyrie. This set me back really far but luckily I had been ramping every turn with Sword of the Animist and kept some strong angels in hand.

I recast Giada, and played Archangel of Tithes, Angelic Field Marshal and Lyra Dawnbringer with Mutavault giving me the extra +1/+1 counter. At this point Isshin started going off and nearly killed me with a combination of Tectonic Giant, Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, Isshin, Two Heavens as One, Aurelia, the Warleader but they tapped out for Dihada, Binder of Wills to give Krenko vigilance, lifelink and indestructible. When they tried to swing at me, they forgot about the tax for Tithes and instead knocked out Tevesh and Muldrotha. Muldrotha took out Aurelia, the Warleader as retribution.

On the final turn I was left with only Oblation and Breathkeeper Seraph in hand. I had the choice to use it on one of Isshin's creatures but they were in such a dominating position that giving them 2 cards was probably a bad idea. Instead I used it on a tapped Emergence Zone and drew into Thraben Watcher and Sigarda's Vanguard. With the combination of all the angels I brought Isshin down to 3 and Firkraag cleaned up but had nothing against my board so scooped.

Opponents: Alela, Artful Provacateur, Jared Carthalion, Gishath, Sun's Avatar

Starting Hand: Cavern of Souls, Flooded Strand, Windswept Heath, Esper Sentinel, Path to Exile, The Ozolith, Teferi's Protection

I debated even listing this game as it was over so fast. Alela burst out on turn 1 with an Island into Sol Ring into Arcane Signet. Turn 2 they played a Smothering Tithe. Turn 3 they played a Bolas's Citadel. In one of their turns they cast a Vendilion Clique bottoming my Teferi's Protection. Despite whiffing for 2 turns off the top of their library they were so ahead with ramp that they quickly overtook the game. I died by turn 5 to 35+ damage from a faerie army beefed up with Coat of Arms. The other 2 players scooped as they had no interaction with the Coat.

T1 Esper Sentinel did some amazing work here. I drew off every player at least 2-3 times so it netted me like 7-8 cards for just 1 mana.

I also attempted to attack with Battle Angels of Tyr but it was bounced to my hand by next turn.

The Ozolith ended up doing nothing this game but that's more due to having no boardstate. Together Forever wouldn't have done anything in this game either so its impact still hasn't been seen. Other players did comment that it could be a problem with a bigger board.

I did have a misplay here as I should have held up mana for removal spells which I had in my hand. My final hand was Vanquisher's Banner, Archangel of Thune, Angelic Accord, Serra Paragon, Valkyrie Harbinger, Path of Exile and Swords to Plowshares. I just didn't expect Alela to quintuple their damage in one turn.

Opponents: Phenax, God of Deception, Jared Carthalion, Gishath, Sun's Avatar

Starting Hand: Secluded Steppe, Emergence Zone, Plains, Pearl Medallion, Thorough Investigation, Angelic Field Marshal, Angel of Vitality

T1 - Secluded Steppe tapped

T2 - Plains into Pearl Medallion

T3 - Emergence Zone into Thorough Investigation and Giada, Font of Hope

I had several misplays this game as it had been a long day. The first was using my Clues too early instead of playing out my hand and refilling it later with the Clues.

Phenax became a huge threat towards mid-game as they had a Haunt of high tower on board along with their commander Phenax, God of Deception. They forced Ghisath to mill 40+ cards with 4 creatures. I had Kabira Takedown  Flip in hand but it wouldn't put a dent in the Haunt. Instead I opted for player removal and swung with everything knocking them out.

My second misplay here was not tapping Giada to cast Angelic Field Marshal which would've given all my creatures vigilance. I was so used to swinging with Giada first and then tapping her that I failed to see her as a mana dork. Since I had Archangel of Tithes out it would've prevented huge swings against me as well.

Since I was wide open Gishath took the advantage and swung at me dropping a good number of dinos on their board. However on their next turn when they tried to use Silverclad Ferocidons with Pyrohemia Jared saved the day by sacrificing Primeval Spawn into a Time Warp.

When I tried to rebuild I realized I had no clues left and no attackers to draw into answers. I also made my third misplay by wasting a Path to Exile on a random dinosaur thinking it would sacrifice Pyrohemia but then stupidly played Bishop of Wings so I could trigger my The Book of Exalted Deeds by replaying Giada.

I died on the next turn to due to lethal Gishath commander damage. If I had saved my Path I could've used it on Gishath and played out more angels for the lifegain.

Ended up winning 2/4 games and was the second biggest threat in the 2 games I lost. I think I would've had a chance in game 4 if I hadn't had so many misplays.

Lightning Greaves was amazing in the 2 games it was played. It was so great that Isshin focused Giada when it came back out. In fact I like it so much that I'm going to try and find a spot for Swiftfoot Boots so I can keep equipping without removing the protection.

Esper Sentinel was also great the 1 game I got it out. Drawing that many cards for 1 mana is just too good to pass up. If you haven't purchased Smuggler's Share yet I'd say go for Esper first.

Archangel of Tithes was SO GOOD. It saved me from lethal once and would've again a second time if I didn't misplay again. With vigilance it does double duty.

Well of Lost Dreams felt a little clunky in game 2. I want to like it, it has a high ceiling but it needs some prep work to start drawing. Either I drop it instead of a threat or I play it much later. I also need lifegain and the mana to draw from it. With the amount of work that goes into it to activate it, a board wipe usually turns it off. We have no other lifegain outside of creature based lifegain. So we would only draw with an established board presence and we're using mana to draw into threats rather than play them. It feels either like a win-more card or a hail mary to get something good. I'm actually debating its place in this deck and what may be a better card draw. Court of Grace at least replaces itself on our end step and provides either an Angel or Spirit on our upkeep. It also requires no additional maintenance to get it going.

Others at the table commented that Authority of the Consuls is a better option to the soul sisters. While I do like the tap mechanic of Authority, it doesn't trigger off my creatures. Also having it be an enchantment means that most people won't bother with it all game. Soul sisters typically get wiped with the rest of the board whereas opponents have to target Authority. I find that I don't usually hit the payoffs on opponents turn but on my own turn. However, I only hit the magic 4/5 life when Bishop of Wings or Righteous Valkyrie is out, not off a soul sister. I know that you really like the soul sisters but practically every game I've had a board wipe and the payoffs haven't been worth it.

Kabira Takedown  Flip has its uses but in terms of removal is pretty poor for the slot. After a boardwipe it's practically worthless.

Even though I STILL haven't pulled off Pyre of Heroes properly I'm once again debating Recruiter of the Guard and Weathered Wayfarer. Since they're both humans they can chain into our human sub-theme. Weathered Wayfarer can be sacrificed into Bishop of Wings to get our lifegain payoffs going. It also helps grab lands for Emeria Shepherd if we want to recur stuff from the graveyard. Recruiter of the Guard can tutor for Starnheim Aspirant, Esper Sentinel, Inspiring Overseer, Thraben Watcher and can be sacrificed into Mangara, the Diplomat.

Worrad75 on Attack-harmonicon

3 months ago

Thanks for the suggestions! These are all fantastic. You certainly know your way around an Isshin list!

I had Hammers of Moradin in my original list in my notes tab, not sure how it didn't make it; I'll swap that in for Commissar Severina Raine as a budget option. It seems better in the midgame anyways, where people have some blockers but not a massive boardstate.

i feel silly for not thinking of Ogre Battledriver sooner! I had it in my old krenko deck and it's an absolute HOUSE. Its coming in. Fervor not being a creature and Ardoz not giving things other than the 1/1s haste seem like deal breakers for the moment.

Zhentarim Bandit is one I haven't seen and I think I'll swap it in for Honored Crop-Captain for now; My only reservation is that the 2/1 body seems a bit too fragile to attack with unless I have something to give it evasion/protection, so it seems conditionally good. That being said, its a 2 drop and mana is good at all points of the game so the floor is probably higher than that of crop-captain, although the ceiling is lower.

I like Tocasia's Welcome, but I think I prefer Thorough Investigation just because I happen to have 2 other really good venture cards, and in my goldfishing I've run into a couple situations where I have tons of mana and no card draw, so its a bit of a hedge. It also works as a nice plan B if I can pair it with Emberwilde Captain and play psuedo pillowfort in a pinch. Certainly an option after more field-testing though.

I like Inquisitorial Rosette but not sure what i'd take out for it. Maybeboard for now.

I've flipflopped a lot on the etb damage trigger cards, another card I've considered in that slot would be Goblin Bombardment. They all just seem like win-more cards in this deck, haste enablers would result in roughly the same amount of damage and have a higher floor. Also since I'm taking out Severina Raine for the moment, the group slug subtheme is more just Mishra at this point (finger's crossed I get to double his melded attack trigger at least once, that would be epic!)

Crow-Umbra on Attack-harmonicon

3 months ago

Sweet deck! You have a very solid creature core going here. I have a few recommendations for your consideration:

  • Tocasia's Welcome - Works well with creature token production, and about 15 (including Isshin) of your total 35 creatures would trigger it. Could be a potential swap with Thorough Investigation, mostly because the Clue tokens still need mana investment to draw with them.

  • Inquisitorial Rosette - More token production and a Menace anthem to boot.

  • Zhentarim Bandit - A slightly cheaper Captain Lannery Storm, plus its trigger is a "may" one, so you can opt out as needed.

  • Hammers of Moradin - Probably one of my favorite cards in my Isshin deck. Helps clear lanes for aggro swings.

  • Ogre Battledriver, Ardoz, Cobbler of War, and Fervor - A mix and match trio of Haste and Power anthems. Especially helpful for either keeping your creatures aggro, and adding a bit more beef behind creature token swings.

  • Impact Tremors and Witty Roastmaster - Especially if you're leaning into creature tokens, and to compliment your Winota and Fireflux squad. Also helps round out the group slug elements you have with Severina Raine and Mishra.

Isshin is by far my favorite commander of the past year. Always happy to see more lists.

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