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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Creature — Kraken
Whenever a Kraken, Leviathan, Octopus or Serpent you control deals combat damage to a player, create a 9/9 blue Kraken creature token.
DreadKhan on The Quackening
2 months ago
I have a Quest for Ula's Temple deck which does some similar things, I liked Dreamscape Artist because it can reshuffle your library as needed, incase you don't have a relevant creature to work with on top. It's technically only 1 mana and a card to Harrow (you get back 2 untapped lands, so it can also helping mana fixing) Blue, and I could be wrong but I think your Commander wants the odd Discard outlet too. A worse (but still potentially useful) piece of Blue ramp is Apprentice Wizard, it's not as good as Dreamscape, it's like Worn Powerstone, which is a good rock if you want bigger ramp to potentially cast a big creature a bit sooner. Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus are big ramp rocks with decent ratios. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers are pretty good together, if you have a lot of devotion to a colour Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can help, Deserted Temple can untap any land that makes extra mana. Less rampy and more of a big Scry effect, Soothsaying is a neat card if you care about your deck order. Scroll Rack is better but costs more.
Just a general idea, you might throw in things like Reconnaissance Mission, Bident of Thassa, and Coastal Piracy along with some Unblockable or Shadow creatures (Thalakos and Dauthi are the Blue and Black tribes). You can also throw in stuff like Sword of the Animist, Dowsing Dagger Flip, Prying Blade, Goldvein Pick, Grim Hireling, and any other attack payoffs you can find to generate more value over time. I understand you want a sea-monster theme, but you might want a way to draw some cards/get in some chip damage to soften people up. The only drawback to Shadows is that they can't chump block. If you really want your evasive creatures to be able to chump, there are some small flyers like Spectral Sailor and Thousand-Faced Shadow that have other upsides, these are risk free but are way less evasive than Shadows.
On that note, if you're worried about getting attacked you might look at Propaganda, War Tax, Flood, and Fatespinner are all great ways to make you hard to attack. Mass Diminish, Polymorphist's Jest, Sudden Spoiling, AEtherize, Aetherspouts are all great cards for people to fear.
Callous Oppressor is a funny repeatable theft effect, Ritual of the Machine and Helm of Possession can both steal stuff and are great with tokens, Thieving Skydiver can steal an artifact creature fwiw, Sower of Temptation is a so-so theft effect that shines bright if you can flicker or bounce it, Thalakos Deceiver is probably way better since he permanently steals whatever and can be reanimated, Inevitable Betrayal and Bribery are both pretty sweet.
The biggest (and perhaps best) theft effects are Mass Manipulation and Cultural Exchange, exchange requires bodies but can also be used aggressively to just ruin two players' boards.
Inkwell Leviathan, Lochmere Serpent, Spawning Kraken, Stormtide Leviathan, and Wrexial, the Risen Deep are some relevant creatures I use, some are better than others but there is nothing as bad as Sea Serpent or Bog Serpent, both cards I love but don't use.
If you like Whelming Wave, you might like Spectral Deluge as well.
Hope some of this helps, Big Dimir is a fun deck!
chilln797 on Yer fond of me lobster V.4
3 months ago
LOL thank you btracy199012!
Great suggestions! I have tried Thing in the Ice Flip, I really enjoy it thematically (as a huge fan of "the thing") but its synergy is great with Krothus being a horror. I did find it hard to flip consistently, but this deck can chain together draw/selection cards decently well. Its best application is flipping Runo the same turn as Thing in the Ice Flip as you wipe the board while immediately building one yourself with x3 7/8 bodies. Buried Alive fits very well in the mana curve but more often than not, I have found it too slow. Often times I am only searching for that one big creature to copy. A copied Spawning Kraken, Hullbreaker Horror or JunkWinder is usually enough to close out the game. It is a very fun deck (if not a little fragile) and it can be made on a fairly small budget (if you omit the efficient tutors).
Volrishan on Deep Blue Depths
1 year ago
some other cards you might like are Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait, Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle, Koma, Cosmos Serpent, Serpent of Yawning Depths, Spawning Kraken, and last but not least The Reality Chip
Guerric on Fish are friends
1 year ago
Hi Anabasis! Since you asked for some feedback on the list prior to committing, I'll comment here since I can link cards easily. Let's begin with the archetype you are going for here, how it plays out with Braids, Conjurer Adept, how to make it run a bit smoothly. The archetype for this deck is "group hug," which is a bit of a misunderstood archetype that has gotten unnecessary bad rep in the past. Basically, a group hug deck built properly is one that has effects which benefit everyone, but benefit the player the most. The idea is that there is little incentive to target the group hug player because they are giving free stuff, and the free stuff nonetheless keeps every player more competitive, which takes more pressure off of the group hug player, who is then ahead in the value race. The most iconic group hug commander, for example, is Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis. This commander lets every player either draw an extra card or play an extra land each end step, whereas the Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis player gets to do both. Oftentimes what makes game uneven are some players encountering ramp or draw problems, and this evens things out and keeps them competitive. Usually players won't target Kynaios and Tiro because it is benefitting them, and because it is not inherently threatening. Nonetheless, the Kynaios player is ahead in the value race, and usually plans to win with some sort of alternate win condition like Approach of the Second Sun. Braids, Conjurer Adept plays out similarly, in that every player benefits from Braids, but unlike your opponents your deck is built to exploit it, and you will have scarier things to cheat out than they will. The difference with this deck, however, and this is the critical part, is that your deck will be inherently threatenting. People will soon figure out that you are dropping scary things and have plenty of incentive to kill braids. What's worse is that the way Braids works inherently gives them added incentive to do so. The scariest words on the card are "at the beginning of each player's upkeep" are ones you will come to loathe if you don't build this right. These words mean that if you play Braids normally, each of your opponents will get to use Braids before you do. This is bad, because after three opponents have used it, the third could kill Braids before you ever get to use her. This is the nightmare that should ever be in your mind when planning or playing this deck, but if you are mindful of it, it can be overcome. So let's think first about Braids' abilities and how to best protect and exploit her to your benefit over your opponents.'
The first is to do lots and lots of what blue does best, namely, countering spells. Whereas Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis are a pillowfort group hug deck, you should think of your deck as a control group hug deck. Forget the crappy boardwipes like AEtherize and Aetherspouts. You probably included them because you've sensed they won't hit your board, but you'll find that smart players never attack with their most important pieces, and that they won't generally do what you want them to. Spectral Deluge and Whelming Wave are probably fine, but leave the rest out- you're better off just stopping things from happening to begin with than wiping a board that will probably be in your favor. Counterspells are good here for two reasons. First and foremost, they protect Braids from removal, which will be their most important duty. Beyond that, since you're getting a free permanent every turn, you have the luxury of holding your mana open, so you might as well have stuff to do with it! I'd think about playing up to ten different counterspells along with premium blue targeted removal like Reality Shift, Ravenform, etc.
Since the weakness of Braids is that our opponents' get to use her first if we cast her at sorcery speed, we might as well rewrite the script and try to play her at instant speed where feasible. Leyline of Anticipation and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir can help with this. You'll enjoy much more playing Braids on your opponent's end step and getting to use her first than the reverse. This will also aid and abet your counterspell game, in that if you don't need to counter anything you can cast other spells on your opponent's end step rather than wasting your mana. I see that you included these spells, but I wanted to make sure that you realize how critical they are to your game, and that if you can find more of this effect it will be worthwhile to include it.
A third implication is that, in the true spirit of group hug, you should get to use Braids more than your opponents. It's only fair after all! Therefore cards that copy triggered abilities like Strionic Resonator are at a premium here. Braids is far better if you get to use her twice and your opponents only get to use her once.
You also need to rework your ramp section entirely. The general rule of commanders and ramp applies here, namely, that you mostly want to play ramp that can get your commander out a turn early. This means one and two mana rocks primarily, unless it can get extra lands out. Dreamstone Hedron and Hedron Archive are traps and will make you cry. I know the theory is that you can play them for free with Braids, but keep in mind that they will never help you cast Braids. Also, they tend to be removal targets, and you'd probably be putting out something threatening over a mana rock anyway. Caged Sun is definitely worth it though because of the overall value, and because it will be worth it even to double your mana for one turn in order to cast a massive x-spell. Armillary Sphere is just bad here. Importantly, it is not a ramp spell since it doesn't put anything onto the battlefield. When people do play it, it is just for color fixing in multi-colored decks, and you don't need that. It'd be better to just play more card draw so that you can draw into your land drops normally. Sol Ring, Mind Stone, and Thought Vessel are fine, but you want to add Wayfarer's Bauble, Sky Diamond, and Coldsteel Heart at least. Sword of the Animist and Dowsing Dagger Flip are also fabulously repeatable ramp that always makes me smile. Dreamscape Artist is also a sleeper blue card that can repeatedly ramp lands onto the battlefield which is often overlooked. You'll be far happy with these efficient options that can either get Braids out early or get her out on time with mana to spare for counterspells than with the big splashy cards.
Also, as far as card draw goes, I wouldn't take group hug to far here. You are already giving your opponents free permanents, and you are in the best card draw color and don't need their help in that. Personally I'd recommend skipping Kami of the Crescent Moon and the like entirely, and play more personal draw spells like Gadwick, the Wizened and Blue Sun's Zenith. Seriously. One advantage of Braids is that they will play spells for free and run out of stuff to cast, whereas you can keep drawing into it. If you help them out too much, you're just hurting yourself in the long run. I'd honestly replace all the reciprocal draw spells with spells which draw you cards. The only one that might be ok is Well of Ideas, but that one is benefiting you more and you first, so it fits the bill.
Some more cautions. While casting free haymakers is the reason for this deck, don't overdo it. You want to be able to afford to hard cast stuff sometimes, both in case Braids dies or just to amass more of a board presence. The power curve in magic has been getting lower in recent years, and there are many devastating spells that cost four and five mana, so don't sleep on those. Your average cmc here is 4.5, and while some high cmc haymakers are what you want, you also want lots of castable creatures.
I'm also not sure why we are playing the "creatures become every creature type" cards. Is this for better board wiping with Whelming Wave or synergy with Spawning Kraken? In my experience these synergies won't work out enough to justify the card slots, which might be better filled with counterspells or other creatures. Honestly, if I were to pick another theme to support this archetype I'd pick blink, since you doubling ETB counters can be great, but that's just me. Blinking is the sort of thing where you don't need to do a lot of it for it to be good.
A few other card choice matters. Reflections of Littjara only works on cast, so it won't copy creatures played with Braids. Definitely consider this before including a five mana enchantment that doesn't affect the board right away. Also, yes, absolutely play High Tide. It is so worth it in a mono-blue deck. Yes, Frozen Aether is amazing here. this is absolutely how to play group hug. Your opponents get free stuff, but it is only fair that you get to use your stuff first. Personally, I feel like Ominous Seas is one of the most overrated commander cards in recent years. It seems like you get a great rate on a vanilla 8/8, but often the enchantment will get blown up first, and it takes forever to come out. That's just my opinion thought.
One final thought, don't prejudice yourself too much in favor of sea monsters over against, say, eldrazi. I know the chase eldrazi are expensive, but Artisan of Kozilek is under one dollar in real world money and a wonderful thing to play with Braids, and to make copies of with your copy spells, and to give haste to with Crashing Drawbridge. You will have so much fun.
I think this will be a great deck and you have a lot of good ideas going here. I'd just refocus it a bit and then wreak some havoc!
multimedia on Deep Dark Fears
1 year ago
Hey, nice sea monster version.
Frantic Search and Brainstorm are helpful spells to set up Runo to transform since you'll get high CMC sea monsters in your hand. Frantic is draw two, discard a sea monster, untap three lands then tap those three lands to cast Runo. Frantic could replace Forbidden Alchemy and Brainstorm could replace Strategic Planning.
A couple of sea monster upgrades to consider:
- Hullbreaker Horror --> Lorthos, the Tidemaker
- Stormtide Leviathan --> Tromokratis
- Striped Riverwinder --> Elder Deep-Fiend
- Wonder --> Octopus Umbra
Even though you have Mirror Gallery, Lorthos and Tromokratis are legendary creatures who when copied by Krothuss don't do much since they don't have an effect when they ETB and Lorthos attack effect is not mana efficient at all with copies. Striped Riverwinder is helpful to transform Runo since it's one mana cycle to draw a card and put into your graveyard. When you control copies of Hullbreaker Horror then it can bounce all your opponents nonland permanents with Sol Ring + another 0-2 CMC mana rock by constantly cast/bounce.
Stormtide Leviathan pairs well with Krothuss since he has flying. Beatdown your opponents with 8/8 unblockable Stormtides who's ability can make it more difficult for your opponents to swingback at you. Stormtide helps Wrexial, the Risen Deep since he has islandwalk. Stormtide also pairs well with Wonder to give all creatures you control flying so they can attack. Without Stormtide Wonder is still powerful especially with Spawning Kraken since you have plenty of Islands. Wonder is nice when a strategy here is to get creatures into your graveyard.
Good luck with your deck.
multimedia on Runo stormkirk duel wielding sea monsters
1 year ago
Hey, good first draft. I'm having a lot of fun with Krothuss; Runo is just along for the ride.
Your deck doesn't have a Commander. In the deck editor after Runo Stromkirk text add CMDR.
1x Runo Stromkirk (DBL) *CMDR*
When you save and return to the deck Runo will be the official Commander with it's own category and card image.
Consider cutting a few lands: Temple of the False God and some basic lands, for some more cards to help setup Runo to transform?
Hullbreaker Horror is a new Kraken who has great interaction with Krothuss. Hullbreaker + Sol Ring + Mana Crypt is infinite colorless mana by bounce/cast each of these mana rocks. Hullbreaker + Sol Ring + Mox Amber is infinite colorless mana as well as blue/black mana if you control Runo or Krothuss. If you control token copies of Hullbreaker then these combos can bounce all your opponents nonland permanents and keep doing this on your turn to lock your opponents out of having nonland permanents as well as clear the battlefield of blockers to attack.
Wonder is powerful for Kraken who don't have evasion such as Hullbreaker, Spawning Kraken, 9/9 Kraken tokens, etc. An effect to give all creatures you control flying is needed with Stormtide Leviathan. Buried Alive can get Wonder as well as two other creatures you want to reanimate or help to transform Runo.
Vile Entomber has Entomb which can be helpful with Krothuss. Vile can first support to setup Runo then when Krothuss/Vile attack make a token copy of it to get Wonder while in combat. Baleful Strix is a good Dimir creature and can be repeatable draw with Krothuss. Mutate Strix with Sea-Dasher Octopus on top for a draw engine with Krothuss.
Some upgrades to consider:
- Hullbreaker Horror --> Shipbreaker Kraken
- Wonder --> Fleet Swallower
- Vile Entomber --> Elder Deep-Fiend
- Baleful Strix --> Cadaver Imp
- Mox Amber --> Hedron Archive
Good luck with your deck.
multimedia on Runo Stromkirk Reanimator
1 year ago
Hey, well done with less than $50.
Reanimation is a good theme to go with Runo/Krothuss because the cards that can help to setup Runo to transform can also enable reanimation. Self-mill is a way to setup Runo/reanimation, but loot which is draw then discard gives you more control over what card(s) you put into your graveyard. With self-mill you may mill a noncreature card that you would rather draw, that you can't recur later. With loot you have more control over what cards you discard and you draw first. More loot can help to get Wonder into your graveyard. Consider more loot?
- Frantic Search: can discard a 6 CMC creature then use the three untap lands to cast Runo.
- Thirst for Discovery: draw three for three mana, can then discard up to two creatures. If you don't need to discard creatures then just discard a basic land since there's 25 of them here.
- Obsessive Stitcher: is a repeatable looter and an instant speed reanimator.
- Tomebound Lich: loot on ETB and when it does combat damage to a player, nice creature to copy with Krothuss.
- Mask of Memory: equip to Runo or Krothuss for repeatable loot.
Spawning Kraken is a busted budget 6 CMC creature with Krothuss since it's a Kraken who creates 9/9 Krakens any time any Kraken does combat damage to a player. By controlling just Krothuss and Spawning who's able to attack, if all these creatures do combat damage to an opponent then you create nine 9/9 Kraken tokens. These two cards create an army with 90+ power spread between them.
Vile Entomber is helpful to setup Runo then copy it with Krothuss to get Wonder while in combat. Having a creature who can tutor for and put any card of your choice into your graveyard is powerful with reanimation. Victimize is great reanimation for it's mana cost and low price.
I see Baleful Strix and Sea-Dasher Octopus pairs well with Strix to mutate. When you mutate Strix with Sea-Dasher on top you make a 2/2 blue Octopus with flying, deathtouch, draws a card when it ETB and when it does combat damage to a player. If you copy the mutated creature with Krothuss you make two copies of it and that token becomes one creature, an Octopus who has all of these abilities.
If the original mutated creature (Sea-Dasher with Strix below it) is returned to your hand then both Sea-Dasher and Strix return to your hand to cast Sea-Dasher again, to mutate again. Sea-Dasher is powerful because it has flash for two mana mutate to any nonHuman creature you control to turn that creature into an Octopus for much more interaction with Krothuss.
If interested I offer suggestions of cuts to consider. Good luck with your deck.
multimedia on Runo, Vampire of the Seas
1 year ago
Hey, nice version, but you forgot Whelming Wave?
Frantic Search is a really good enabler for Runo, by discarding a 6 CMC creature and then use the three lands you untap to cast Runo. Lim-Dul's Vault is another excellent enabler since you have a lot of life in Commander.
Reanimation helps when playing so many high CMC creatures and a low amount of lands. With Apprentice Necromancer the creature you reanimate has haste letting it attack to be copied by Krothuss the same turn you reanimate. Obsessive Stitcher is a repeatable looter and can reanimate even at instant speed on your last opponent's turn to then attack with that creature and Krothuss on your turn. Both these reanimation sources are creatures which can be helpful with Krothuss, if the battlefield is clear to attack to copy. Victimize is sac a creature, most likely a token copy, to reanimate any two creatures.
Victimize and Time Warp, etc. here go well with Archaeomancer to recur them to cast again because Archaeomancer is a creature who Krothuss can copy. Can be infinite extra turns for repeatable five mana as long as Krothuss can keep attacking and copying Archaeomancer. Baleful Strix is great to mutate with Sea-Dasher Octopus, making a 2/2 Octopus with flying, deathtouch, draw a card when it ETB and when it does combat damage to a player.
Attacking creature you want to copy with Krothuss, Spawning Kraken, 9/9 Krakens, etc. can really benefit from evasion. Wonder is nice because you can discard it and you have a lot of Islands. Archetype of Imagination is a 6 CMC creature who also makes your creatures nearly unblockable and pairs with Stormtide Leviathan. Junk Winder is a Serpent who pairs well with Spawning to tap down opponent blockers.
If interested I offer suggestions of cards to cut. Good luck with your deck.
|Want (2)||Amaterasu312 , Ilumanatee360|