|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Shadows over Innistrad (SOI)||Mythic Rare|
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Descend upon the Sinful
Exile all creatures.
Delirium — Put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard.
Descend upon the Sinful Discussion
3 days ago
So now I'm going to organize this post is from different types of cards and alternatives and/or strictly better cards that have the same Converted mana cost!
Let's start with enchantments! It seems like your all over the place, which is fine, but you have aura enchantments and land enchantments. which seems a little weird to me! Normally you want to either go a route for your deck, and this seems unorganized, so let us fix that! Serra Aviary is a bad card, cause it also gives opponents fliers +1/+1, we don't want this. So id suggest either going with some like Citadel Siege cause sure, it won't buff all creatures, and it'll give a boost to one creature you want per turn, or it can be used defensively which is always a plus! I'd also suggest going Dictate of Heliod cause it gives an extra +1/+1 for one extra mana, AND IT HAS FLASH! For cards that are better for the 4 cmc are Light from Within , Force of Virtue , Marshal's Anthem .
For protection cards or cards that accumulate value, instead of Angelic Renewal and Angelic Accord , cards which can be good, but you don't have a whole lof of life gain or recursion to run these two! So I'd suggest cards like Sigil of the New Dawn , Kindred Boon , Privileged Position and Asceticism are 100% more effective in protecting your creatures or giving good value.
Now that we got enchantments out of the way! lets work on these instants! I love some of these instants, Absorb is a fun card that I'm 100% gonna get, same with Archmage's Charm ! Disdainful Stroke , Essence Scatter (and the like), Commencement of Festivities and Guardian Angel are all weaker versions of cards like Mana Drain and Counterspell which I'd upgrade with. I'd also suggest getting some artifact/enchantment removal such as Krosan Grip one of the best in this as it has split second, another card I highly recommend is Bant Charm one of the most versatile instant printed in these colors. some other instants i enjoy and have seen good results with are Teferi's Protection , Plasm Capture / Mana Drain , Render Silent , Arcane Denial , Dawn Charm and Heroic Intervention . Those are just some of my recommendations! I may have some more but You'd really need to let me know what direction you want to go!!
For sorceries, you're in gosh darn green! WHERE ARE THE RAMP SPELLS?!!??!!? Add Farseek , and since we have big fatty CMC angels, Recross the Paths puts in some work! Kodama's Reach and Explosive Vegetation are better than cards like Rampant Growth because 1) it gives card advantage (2 lands for 1 card) and 2) gives us more mana to work with during the late game! (this is when angel decks typically win). other ramp spells I use are Cultivate and Traverse the Outlands .
I've noticed this deck does not have a SINGLE BOARD WIPE, as big as our angels are for the CMC, we won't be able to cast them until later, board wipes are essential to have especially since you aren't running any pillow forts kind of cards, I HIGHLY recommend adding some, cards that I've always had in my white decks are Austere Command , Rout , Supreme Verdict , Cleansing Nova , Descend upon the Sinful , Planar Cleansing and Mass Calcify . Some other sources that are more focused with tribal is Harsh Mercy sure each player gets to pick a creature type, but that typically is one creature for them, and of course we'll pick angels, so we get the upper-hand in this!
We need some card draw, and this is important as I don't see any in this deck and that is a HUGE mistake. Think about adding cards like Rishkar's Expertise , Praetor's Counsel , Blue Sun's Zenith , Sphinx's Revelation , Finale of Revelation just to name a few that come to mind.
For Lands, these look just.....fine albeit slow, but not quite optimized. I totally understand how people on a budget don't run cards like Misty Rainforest and the like. But as a 3 color deck, I suggest adding in cards like Temple of Enlightenment and Temple of Plenty at least you'll get value from them coming in tapped. Other cards I'd suggest are Krosan Verge , Prairie Stream , Flooded Grove , Wooded Bastion , Seaside Citadel , Path of Ancestry , Forbidden Orchard (cause what is a 1/1 to our angels? PFFT) other lands that give some utility in a pinch are: Scattered Groves and Irrigated Farmland ! other good cards are Glacial Fortress (and it's kin), Hinterland Harbor and Temple Garden !
For Artifacts, I see the signets, I don't typically run the
and X signets just cause I like my land ramp better and won't get destroyed with target removal or artifact/enchantment wipes. but as a 3 color deck, you 100% NEED
basically makes all your mana problems go away, just tap lands for whatever color you need! If you're trying to go for some voltronish cards, I'd suggest going like
, which basically secures that you keep whatever creature you want alive for the rest of the game (unless they exile it with a spell somehow).
is also a good card as people won't want to block because it exiles shit, which is GREAT, let me tell you how many times people didn't block because they wanted to keep their creature(s).
For tribal support cards, there is a very small pool to chose from, So you might want to grab a Vanquisher's Banner , Herald's Horn , Urza's Incubator , Door of Destinies , Coat of Arms , Stoneforge Masterwork and Cryptic Gateway are some cards to look at!
Ok, lets finally get this creature situation fixed! first of, YOU'RE AN ANGEL DECK WITHOUT ITS PRIME GURL!?! WHERE IS MY Avacyn, Angel of Hope ?!?!?!??!!?!?!? I'm disappointed!!!! But for real, add her.
Other cards considering should be Metallic Mimic (if you're going for a 1/1 counter theme.) Solemn Simulacrum should go in here, he's just too good not to have here! Rhonas the Indomitable is a great mana sink, and if you really need to give trample to your creatures, Nylea, God of the Hunt is also a good alternative. Resplendent Angel is a great 3 cmc angel, don't underestimate this gurl! Sephara, Sky's Blade is also a great (shittier) version of our gurl Avacyn, Angel of Hope but still a good effect none-the-less! Iridescent Angel , for a 7 mana angel, I was hesitant at running her in my jenara deck, but has proved to be SO GOSHDARN STRONG! Can literally take ANY damage from ANYTHING (don't mention the Eldrazi to this gurl) but it has soaked up a lot of damage over my games. Archangel of Tithes is a great 4 cmc angel that gives taxes for attacking and defending! great include! Angel of Invention a fabulous card, especially if you have something that gives +1/+1 counters, say a Bow of Nylea , is a great addition to our squad! Angel of Serenity is a good card here as well! great recursion for this deck! since we're in bant, Stoic Angel is also a good include! Akroma, Angel of Wrath can't go wrong with an 8/8 creature with so many keywords and protection(s)!
Also, there is ONE card that is SO GOSHDARN UNDERRATED AND NEVER PLAYED and has literally been the BIGGEST beater I've EVER seen is non-other than Selfless Squire . THIS GURL...Where are my words for this card. It's a fog effect but you get a MASSIVE creature that has to be answered or your opponent die! I've had people swing at me for 20+ damage, not worried because of Selfless Squire and she becomes a huge creature, give her trample and/or indestructible, good game! This gurl is so badass she can oftentimes beat an ELDRAZI TITAN 1v1 (in terms of power/toughness). Best and most fun card I'VE EVER PLAYED IN A CREATURE! 50/10 would recommend!
1 month ago
1 month ago
You may want to look into making Angel tokens, in the event of wipes. I would advise at the bare minimum the enchantments and Moonsilver Spear as they can be activated every turn.
2 months ago
Yeah, your list looks great. Seems a little light on interaction but that might be inevitable considering how many dinos you need to run and the ramp spells to support them. Rite of Passage is some sick Enrage tech!! Crush Contraband is a great new card. Glad you included Runic Armasaur --seems awesome. I count twelve ramp and discount cards and that's probably where you want to be! It's a lot but dinos.
I know your slots are tight but here are some cards worth putting in the memory banks/maybeboard.
Duelist's Heritage is half-price since the reprint. Might be worth considering. Double triggers and no equip cost, after all. Small upside of being usable in political ways.
True Conviction would be castable for you if you're looking to upgrade later. The lifelink might be great since your strategy is a bit slow to start.
You might want to consider putting Swords to Plowshares and/or another instant-speed removal card for when Polyraptor and Marauding Raptor start to combo because without stopping the chain the game ends in a draw. Being 1 CMC is very attractive since you've likely cast a spell once the chain starts.
Kinjalli's Sunwing seems worthy of consideration. I now you're going for Enrage-tribal but the effect shouldn't be underestimated. Worth putting in the maybeboard IMO.
Where it me I'd include one more silver-bullet board wipe, like Planar Cleansing , Cleansing Nova , Austere Command , or Hour of Revelation . If you're worried about your enchantments you could do Hallowed Burial or Descend upon the Sinful .
Since you're running so few artifacts it might be fun to include some hosers like Stony Silence , Creeping Corrosion and Shatterstorm (my favs), or Fracturing Gust . Pulverize is on-flavor! By Force and Vandalblast are good too. There are tons of other great interaction cards but with so few slots and with all your ramp you may as well go for the big ones. Purify is good but you may want to keep your enchantments around. Seeds of Innocence is a funny one. Collector Ouphe is good but it's not a dino and it'll probably get killed by your Enrage stuff. Rampage of the Clans is a fun new one. Slight flavor fail though.
Wear / Tear , Ancient Grudge , Destructive Revelry , Hull Breach , Nature's Claim , Unravel the Aether , Deglamer , Dust to Dust , Return to Dust , and Ray of Distortion are solid in case you need something
2 months ago
I'd make room for some more removal, especially for artifacts/enchantments plus something that can get rid of a troublesome land like Cabal Coffers : Wear / Tear , Crush Contraband , Return to Dust , Chaos Warp or Generous Gift .
Descend upon the Sinful could interfere with your Sun Titan and/or Angel of Serenity from getting back your creatures. Maybe something like a good old fashioned Wrath of God while hitting your Boros Charm to save your team?
3 months ago
Interesting changes. In my experience with the new set, Teferi, Time Raveler makes it easy for opponents to combo off since only you can interact with them. Maybe you don't have to deal with infinite combos in your meta?
Have you considered 2 mana land tutors like Farseek , Nature's Lore , Three Visits , etc. instead of some of your artifacts? Tezzeret can untap artifacts which is nice but I prefer the consistency of land ramp.
Why Black Sun's Zenith over something simple like Damnation or Austere Command ? Does the indestructibility come into play? In that case I'd go with Hallowed Burial or Descend upon the Sinful unless you really want that shuffle effect.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General is great and has won me multiple games with her ult.
5 months ago
In EDH, when a player with a blue source and at least mana in other sources open on a field. It is a threat. It is a threat not because of a 7 mana spell, but a 2 mana spell, not a spell that deals damage, counters spell, destroys permanents, tutors, or cheats costs, but a bounce spell.
Cyclonic Rift , C-Rift, the big wave, whatever you call it, people know it as one of the strongest, most backbreaking spells in all of EDH, if not the best card in the format.
I am here to say that is isn't.
Part of my series on why other popular staples aren't good ( Phyrexian Arena , Rampant Growth ), or are simply not good in a specific way ( Rhystic Study ), I am not here to deny the power that a card like Cyclonic Rift has, but simply that it isn't a good enough card to warrant the hate or love that it receives.
Before I go over why it isn't good, I need to go over why at nearly every power level, it is good.
In casual EDH, the 50% or less, the Precons, the jank, lies it's the weakest state.
That is where all removal spells, sweepers, or countermagic is the weakest, especially bounce. If no one has threatening boards, why remove them. You'd rather spend 7 mana on a spell to improve yours most of the time, yet those games go long, the Cyclonic Rift acts as a Fog to save you, Sleep to get in for damage, or real removal if you use it on a player's end step if they have to discard just after.
Almost all cards that show heavy play at higher levels show some play at lower ones, and while the price-tag may limit it for most casual players, it does work.
At the 75% or the middle tiers of EDH, where I think EDH players mostly lie, it where it is the most powerful. IF it destroyed any number of target nonland permanents, it would be weaker, because of three reasons:
75% decks often use permanent-based engines to support their gameplan. Think Beast Whisperer along with a deck full of cheap elves, or Paradox Engine in a deck will a lot of Temple Bell effects and mana rocks.
These decks and their creators often expect opponents to remove threats, so have many threats to remove.
They try to protect against sweepers, the only punishing cards for going so wide, with anti-sweepers, think Heroic Intervention , or Boros Charm , and protect against some single-target removal with effects like Darksteel Plate .
Because of this, and because indestructible and hexproof don't protect against a mass bounce effect, along with Cyclonic Rift being the only mass bounce at instant speed that doesn't affect you at all, and doesn't target, it is truly the best anti-75% sweeper by many standards.
In the competitive setting, while not bad, it is mostly relegated to being a 2 mana Chain of Vapor or a Into the Roil that doesn't draw a card, that can let a combo deck get through stax locks once in a blue moon.
Don't get me wrong, being relegated to a slightly worse Chain of Vapor isn't an insult. Chain of Vapor is possible the best removal in cEDH, as decks like Kess consultation or P-Hulk variants Laboratory Maniac wins, and for 1 blue mana, or two in the case of Cyclonic Rift , you get to bounce their wincon as they draw off an empty deck, so they lose...
That is some powerful stuff.
So why isn't it the best EDH card, an efficient spell in nearly any metagame? 2 options for removal, one that crushes many lists and the other a sleek and useful trick?
Because it isn't hyper-efficient, nor is it unbeatable, nor is it irreplaceable.
To start, many cEDH decks that run it run consistent amounts of countermagic to protect it's possible great effect, and numerous cards could fit the spot. It isn't alone. Blink of an Eye , the second Into the Roil has been used over it in many combo lists that more mana-efficient options and many forget the slot all-together, in favor of a cantrip or other removal spell like Abrade or whatever. It isn't very dominant there, and so is easy to explain why it wouldn't be amazing there.
In casual lists, Cyclonic Rift costs about as much as half of many of the casual decks, or even more than some entire casual decks that I have seen. Bringing money-cards wins there, as would a Consecrated Sphinx that costs less money, and I'd wager would have more powerful an effect. Again, an easy argument, but I believe it works.
The really hard place to argue against Cyclonic Rift on the surface is the middle tiers. The 75% lists. Legitimately, I think it is because in the 75% players don't consistently a highly interactive 'metagame'. They just prefer to be interactive 'ingame'.
This comes down to theory, however, when a deck, for example, an elf list abusing the Llanowar Elves style effects along with untap effects to keep making mana, dumping it into something like Ezuri, Renegade Leader . All of that deck and many others get shut down by Null Rod . While that card may be less powerful than other cards against any random deck, as many players know exactly what decks they face, they can play to those decks.
This means general removal, like Anguished Unmaking may be worse if artifacts and walkers don't see much play, you'd rather Mortify . Or if instant speed doesn't help you much, as a lot of City of Solitude / Dosan the Falling Leaf effects exist in your meta, Vindicate , etc.
This is pretty basic knowledge, however, the point here is that there are many, many replacements for Cyclonic Rift in different metagames, and I want to share the ones, only in mono-blue, that in the 75% are why Cyclonic Rift is overrated.
This isn't to say it isn't the best, but that if many, many replacements cost way less $$$ and are occasionally better, that one card shouldn't be considered the best in every situation.
Aether Gale , sorcery, only hits six things, has to hit your things if you don't have enough targets of only your opponents, targets, etc. Yes, there are reasons this is clearly worse.
Why is it better? Politically, you don't have to hit cards from players you team with. Similarly, if you like the Howling Mine on someone's field, don't bounce it. Someone Banishing Light ed someone else's threat you can't deal with? Don't bounce it.
Also, 18 cents. Compared to ~20 dollars and I think it is a steal for budget lists.
Also, it is 2 mana cheaper, despite not being an occasional Disperse .
Evacuation , the downside is simple, it doesn't hit non-creatures, and bounces your own things.
The upsides are for decks that want their own things bounced. ETB effects like Mulldrifter (You can respond to the sacrifice on evoke if you want!), Archaeomancer (infinite sweepers by returning Evacuation , or just recur another card), Duplicant , Solemn Simulacrum , etc.
It is 5 mana too, still an instant, and is only 2-3 dollars right now.
Other options for this could be AEtherize , Whelming Wave , Inundate , Engulf the Shore , Profaner of the Dead , or Scourge of Fleets if you just want mass creature bounce, each with ups and downs, some that only hit opposing creatures, some that are instants, some with graveyard synergies, etc.
For mass nonland bounce that doesn't target? There are tons of options, plenty with lower mana costs than Cyclonic Rift .
Take Coastal Breach . It does a mass bounce for just 4 mana (with 3 opponents), leaving you enough to rebuild first, and being able to be cast much faster, making up slightly for the sorcery speed.
Or Crush of Tentacles , 6 mana? 5 mana and an 8/8, it needs to be in a deck with enough cheap drops to hit surge to be worth it, but an option.
Devastation Tide is a personal favorite, if you run Aminatou, Brainstorm , a lot of scry, Mystical Tutor , Long-Term Plans , Jace, the Mind Sculptor , or are lucky, it is a 2 mana bounce everything. Really strong, however, sorcery (unless you cast it with Miracle on an opponents turn.
Run really high mana cards? Displacement Wave can be better,
Like a big creature attached? Kederekt Leviathan . It even comboes with flicker effects, or can be repeated for 2 mana with an effect like Animate Dead or 3 mana at instant speed whenever with Necromancy in black/blue.
Only need to target one player for political reasons? River's Rebuke .
A lot of one color in the meta? Wash Out
Artifacts/Enchantments? Reduce to Dreams
Even outside of bounce effects, Ixidron can do work xD
Point is, there are options. Even outside of blue, sweepers that can get around the normal protection is seriously strong. Terminus , Hallowed Burial , along with most mass exile effects in white from Play of the Game to Final Judgement / Descend upon the Sinful to the new Urza's Ruinous Blast , etc. Mercilous Eviction in W/B, the -x/-x effects in black like Toxic Deluge or Black Sun's Zenith , etc. in any color, Perilous Vault exists.
These are half of why I think Cyclonic Rift is overrated. Not because it isn't great at what it does, but that it isn't that much better than the rest.
The other half is simple.
Every color (sorry colorless) has answers to Cyclonic Rift off the top of my head.
Black? Many lists abuse cards like Inquisition of Kozilek or other discard to remove powerful cards from opposing decks.
Green? Ugh... Yeah, I guess some colors don't have answers...
(Gutteral Response if they ever make hybrid legal in mono-colored xD)
That's all. Thoughts?
8 months ago
if the thing you want is to have a deck focused on flying creatures or spells without good or bad additions, why not make a commander deck? if you already got the colors figured out you could use Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage, Azor, the Lawbringer or even Medomai the Ageless. with that combination you got a lot of ways to control the board and protection for your creatures, and add 40 more cards to the deck. Aboshan's Desire, Flood, Tidal Flats, Spirit Bonds, Invocation of Saint Traft, Angelic Favor, Entreat the Angels, Tidal Surge, Decree of Justice, Battle Screech, March of Souls, Descend upon the Sinful, Storm Herd are cards that you could use in commander but not in this deck... if you want to have a reliable way to trigger Sigil of the Empty Throne you can use Flickering Ward, Shimmering Wings, Conviction, Brilliant Halo, Gossamer Chains, Viscerid Armor, Ephara's Enlightenment and others. Aven Mindcensor, Mana Short, Boomerang, Standstill, Magus of the Moat, Bident of Thassa, Sigil of the New Dawn, Hindering Light, Supreme Verdict.
ooor make a pauper deck edh or a normal one... :P
Descend upon the Sinful occurrence in decks from the last year
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