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- trample + deathtouch
- Is trample+deathtouch insta kill with damage still going through?
- Returning Primordial Hydra from the graveyard to the battlefield and a +1/+1 counter.
- Hunt the Hunter / Bow of Nylea / attacking creature
- what will happen if i have a Bow on Nylea on the field and in my declare attackers step i play a fight card
Bow of Nylea
Legendary Enchantment Artifact
Attacking creatures you control have deathtouch.
1G, T : Choose one -- Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature; or Bow of Nylea deals 2 damage to target creature with flying; or you gain 3 life; or put up to four target cards from your graveyard on the bottom of your library in any order.
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Bow of Nylea Discussion
1 day ago
Grand Abolisher, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Champion of the Parish, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Karametra, God of Harvests, Captain of the Watch, Crusader of Odric, Recruiter of the Guard, Bruna, the Fading Light, Gisela, the Broken Blade, Geist-Honored Monk, Soul Warden, Riders of Gavony, Sun Titan, Yisan Chord, God's Wrath, Heroic Intervention, Kindred Summons, Second Harvest, Sundering Growth, Enlightened Tutor, Bow of Nylea, Rhonas's Monument, Beastmaster Ascension, Mirari's Wake, Aura Shards, Glorious Anthem, True Conviction, Parallel Lives, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Sigil of the Empty Throne, Akroma's Memorial
1 day ago
Thanks for the feedback bud, I'm going to respond to some of the cards individually to give a more clear explanation for why I put them in there, and then we can maybe chat more about alternatives to some of the suggested cards. I'm planning on removing the Testing cards because I think it is a misnomer. Those are cards that weren't in a lot of other Sigarda decks, not particularly cards that I wanted the most feedback on. But that's my fault for not clarifying.
- Beastmaster Ascension, Cathars' Crusade, Door of Destinies, and True Conviction are what I would consider the primary win condition cards of the deck. They do generate a lot of heat, but that's why there are four of them. Hopefully during a game I would expect to see two of them. To be honest, I much prefer counters over static effects for two reasons: they stick around when the buff is removed, and static effects turn off things like Mentor of the Meek.
- Bow of Nylea is primarily in the deck because people don't like blocking deathtouch creatures. The activated abilities are insignificant in my opinion. If i have extra mana before my next untap phase I will add a +1/+1 counter to Sigarda, or tuck four cards back in my library if Angel of Glory's Rise is dead. I could definitely see the argument for cutting this card, and you mention better stuff, but do you have any recommendations for a mass combat enabler?
- Descendants' Path and Duskwatch Recruiter Flip are a way of seeing more of my deck. Selensya doesn't have a lot of multiple draw cards, and the ones that do are typically creature specific. The only card I would be genuinely sad to tuck is Angel of Glory's Rise, and both of these cards would either cast her, or put her into my hand. Also keep in mind I have 9 cards that make me shuffle my deck, or tucking things to the bottom of my library doesn't mean I won't see them. Also I don't want Duskwatch Recruiter Flip to flip, his activated ability is significantly more impactful than the generic ramp, in my opinion.
- The main difference between Grand Abolisher and Dosan the Falling Leaf is that Grand Abolisher stops people from doing things on my turn, Dosan the Falling Leaf forces people to play instants at sorcery speed, and doesn't stop activated abilities. I think Dosan either fizzles to things that I want to stop (Karlov of the Ghost Council, Spore Frog, and sacrifice effects), and only really messes with spellslinger type decks.
- I like Eerie Interlude when someone has Nevinyrral's Disk type effects out, but until you know someone has a board wipe, or you're going to combo it with your own board wipe, you're basically holding up three mana all the time. I would love suggestions on a permanent that will do this instead.
- I understand Magus of the Disk and Shaman of Forgotten Ways are removal targets, and that they have to survive a full rotation, but keep in mind that besides a board wipe, they both require two removal interactions because Sigarda, Heron's Grace will be out anytime they are. Magus of the Disk is in here to combo with Odric, Lunarch Marshal, though I admit that combo is a little jank. Shaman of Forgotten Ways is in there to shut down some of the lifegain elements or many of the decks I've seen, and because with the exception of a token deck, I expect to have the most number of creatures out. If you were to cut these two cards, what would you replace with them?
- Oblivion Ring is okay. I intentionally picked him over Fiend Hunter or Banisher Priest because enchantments have the least amount of removal, compared to the other nonland permanent types. If I was in Orzhov I would cut this for Anguished Unmaking or some similar effect.
- Thalia's Lancers: Don't forget Bow of Nylea and Tamiyo's Journal are also tutorable. Though most of the time I would be tutoring for one of the Odrics, or Kamahl, Fist of Krosa late game for the win.
- Werebear to me is the perfect mana dork. If I see him early, he provides me with a lot of ramp. If I see him late, he's a 5/5 human for CMC 2. There are a lot of Human mana dorks, but none of them save Shaman of Forgotten Ways does anything else of use.
Sorry that was longer than expected. About your recommendations:
- Bruna, the Fading Light and Gisela, the Broken Blade: To see for Brisela, Voice of Nightmares, you'd have to draw both of those, or one and Thalia's Lancers. The chance of seeing that happen in a game is somewhere in the ballpark of 10% after seeing 20 cards, so not great. I'm not really sure they have enough value on their own to justify that, I'd rather invest two slots in things that help my already big creatures get damage through.
- Sun Titan: Does not fit the tribal restrictions. Also, I don't really want a recursion sub-theme. There are cards to do it, but in my opinion, if you're going to do recursion, you want an engine of sorts, and that is getting too close to Marchesa. Plus recurring creatures doesn't really have a win condition unless it is an engine. They are valuable sure, but that's why Angel of Glory's Rise is the only recursion card in here.
- Oketra's Monument: I've never been a super fan of reducing generic mana costs, but only three of the white creatures won't benefit from this. I really wish the tokens were Humans, but to be honest this is a definitely maybe to include. I'm not sure what I would swap this with though, any opinions?
- Hero of Bladehold: Same slight problem with Oketra's Monument, but from my research, I can't find many good Human token generators. I might swap this with Angelic Overseer.
- Marshal's Anthem: Its CMC 4 to cast, and CMC 2*X to bring back. Unless I have Mirari's Wake out, I'm probably only bringing back 1 or 2 creatures, and the +1/+1 isn't really significant enough in my opinion. I'd rather try and fit in Collective Blessing somewhere.
- Growing Rites of Itlimoc
Flip: I think this card is really cool, and I think that I wouldn't cast this unless it was going to flip the same turn. Having Gaea's Cradle for CMC 3 can be really powerful, but I don't really know what ramp I would cut. Maybe Karametra, God of Harvests? The only problem I'm seeing with this is that it is mana not , and the overwhelming majority of stuff I want to do is in white.
I would love more draw, but there isn't a lot of good draw sources in Selesnya that I can find. Have you found any that you would recommend? The main reason I have a low CMC is because all of the things I have to draw with cost mana, Like investigating, Mentor of the Meek, Duskwatch Recruiter Flip, etc. So the hope is to be able to funnel the extra mana into those draw sources. I have not really addressed the lands as of yet, but if from playtesting Reliquary Tower is needed, I'll slot it in, but I think Thought Vessel is a waste unless you are drawing an exponential amount of cast from things like Rhystic Study.
I have some cards that I'm interested in getting your opinion on, and some potential swaps that I'd also like you opinion on. I'll redo the Testing category and the maybeboard, then ask you to reconvene later if that's okay?
1 day ago
1 day ago
So, first off on your testing category I'll go through each card.
- Beastmaster Ascension - I think its a keep, but only if you can get a decent amount of creatures out. The downside though, is, like Cathar's Crusade, it's gonna get targeted fast.
- Bow of Nylea - I personally don't like the card. It's got a lot of stuff you can do with it, and Deathtouch is cool, but, I feel like there's a lot better stuff out there suiting your deck
- Descendants' Path - It's iffy. You've got 33 Creatures, so there's a 1/3 chance it could work in theory, but, you risk passing cards you might need.
- Dosan the Falling Leaf - Dosan works really well to keep yourself protected from Instants on your turn and such. I think it fits. Its nothing too crazy, but still a good pillow to lean on. Plus its another body, so, with buffs that definitely fits the bill.
- Duskwatch Recruiter Flip - It kinda fits in with Descendants' Path, but, instead offers a really good cost reduction when flipped. The only downside it, will it actually flip a lot? I know with my deck, I can usually play 2 spells in one turn, and that also limits you as well.
- Eerie Interlude - Perfect. Great way to survive a boardwipe, and if you have consistent buffs instead of counters, it doesn't even hurt you.
- Magus of the Disk - This dude is literally a "use your removal on this please" card. I like him though, cause, it causes everyone to kind of freak out and throws off their game. It slows down the board to try and deal with him instead.
- Oblivion Ring - I say keep, because most the time, we're worried about creature removal, and not really enchantment removal. It's kind of thing that's never really top priority.
- Shaman of Forgotten Ways - Great mana dork, but, will probably not last. It's also a removal heavy target. If you want good ramp, there are other cards, but if you want people to waste their removal, then cool.
- Song of the Dryads - Karlov. Never forget. But for reals, this is a great card because it applies to any permanent. I think its a keep.
- Thalia's Lancers - You've got 9 Legendary Creatures. I think its a good fit, because all those creatures do vastly different things, so, you can tutor for what you want. Plus, if you had a small recursion theme, you can ping it multiple times.
- True Conviction - This is another removal target. But, it definitely would work for end game. I think its a keep.
- Werebear - A 2 CMC mana dork is pretty cool, but, you might be able to get something better to fit the bill.
So, here are some cards I found that could fit the deck pretty well, but, again, it's your call.
- Bruna, the Fading Light - She can help with a recursion sub-theme, considering it's strictly Angels or Humans, it wont hurt you. Plus its a 5/7 flyer with Vigilance. Definitely fills the beater category, and can combine with Gisela to be huge and control heavy.
- Gisela, the Broken Blade - 4 CMC for a 4/3 Flying, First Strike, and Lifelink. Plus, again, you can combine it with Bruna to make Brisela, Voice of Nightmares, which shuts down a lot of stuff and is huge.
- Sun Titan - Following the recursion, over 50% of your deck is 3 CMC or less. I think this is a given.
- Oketra's Monument - 72% of your creatures are White. This helps with cost reduction, and you get a 1/1 token along with it.
- Hero of Bladehold - This check can fit your beater category and helps create more tokens so you can overrun your opponents. Plus gives a +1/0 bonus to every creature attacking when it attacks.
- Marshal's Anthem - You'll have enough mana to use this as a quick comeback from a boardwipe, and when it hits the battlefield everything you have gets a +1/+1.
- Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip - I think you should be in a good position at most times to flip this the turn its cast. More mana is always helpful.
So, that's all I have right now. I think you've got to low a CMC to have such little draw. I think more draw would benefit you exponentially, so you can ramp out and get ahead of people by playing 2 or 3 things a turn. That's all I can think of for now. I would definitely put in Reliquary Tower and Though Vessel if you do though, just in case.
4 days ago
first of all, no need to apologise for critisism, as this is YOUR deck, and i'm trying to both help you, improve my own deckbuilding and have a good conversation about way too expensive cardboard :). you can leave formalities behind and so will i, unless that discomforts you of course.
i like your view on cards, as it differs with mine. this is probably because of the difference in playgroups, e.g. the issue of big things getting countered. (this rarely happens in my group, mainly cause i am the blue player playing very little counterspells. destroying things is the way to go)
i have two different points i want to bring out there, first point is about your reaction on my post, the second one is going to be about your "craving" for piloting a versitile deck rather than winning with a sequenced set number of cards.
so Woodland Bellower seems pretty good in the deck, however it cannot tutor Trinket Mage for it is not a non-legendary green creature. nevertheless it does tutor the Reclamation Sage, Eternal Witness etc.
Clever Impersonator: i get the idea of why this card is in the deck. even though versatility is key, this card is not going to help you close out the game when you are on the winning hand (assuming being on the winning hand is having a far better board state). mirage mirror would be my go-to replacement for this card as it is more versitile. apart from biomancer and fathom mage there's not much to copy in your own deck, but that was never the point of Clever Impersonator.
Oran-Rief Hydra: if this is a spotholder for a huge creature that grows if left unchecked i would still stress that it would be replaced. this time around i found Heroes' Bane to be the better option. although it is not a big change, this would optimize mana-cost and add yet another way to spend mana.
never judge a book by its cover, i completely missed Zameck Guildmage his second ability.
Tuskguard Captain: if flying is what you prefer, what about instead paying 6 mana to give your creatures with counters flying Sapphire Drake, you pay 6 mana to give ALL your creatures flying and have all your opponents' creatures lose that ability: Archetype of Imagination
is it right for me to say that having a lot of counters on one creature is more important than having lots of creatures with counters on them? if it is, then thrumming bird isnt really doing much. the inability of this deck (which isnt a bad thing per se) to easily place counters on creatures that haven't got any is what made me question Master Biomancer in the first place, after reading it today i realised it didnt need any counters to work. nevertheless in these 100 cards there are 5 cards that can give creatures counters: Plaxcaster Frogling, Master Biomancer, Zameck Guildmage, Bow of Nylea and Retreat to Kazandu. all of this gives me the feeling a proliferate trigger wont do much, same goes for hardened scales, as 1 more counter on a 13/13 hydra wouldnt make that much difference anymore. conclusion: consider taking out thrummingbird, hardened scales and retreat to kazandu.
to replace these cards you will need ramp, for your deck uses a lot of mana. i cant stress enough how important land based ramp is for your deck, as it is using a wild variety of hard-to-cast cards like Prime Speaker Zegana, Plasm Capture and Alchemist's Refuge, but i respect the issue at hand. i have come up with a small list of ramp that might counter the issue i know all too well: the pain of drawing cultivate in the most important part of the game.
these cards all replace themselves if you draw them lategame. some draw you even more. an honarable mention could be Abundance
i'm thinking about versitality and i am actually wondering what that means for you as a player. is it adding cards like Orochi Hatchery ?
6 days ago
still, a fun deck for casual play with surprising and sudden wins happening. For modern you would need to dump those commander creatures for stuff like Rogue's Passage and add more copies of Forced Adaptation. You could add Bow of Nylea and/or Hardened Scales to replace Ezuri as well.
1 week ago
Great deck! It has something fun going on though needs some editing.
Abzan Battle Priest could be your best friend here. Think of him as the start of you mid-game hinge where you start to turn from life gain to attacking. Another hinge here is your Chalice of Life Flip as it flips to start draining your opponent. What seems to work here is also Ajani's Pridemate, Oreskos Sun Guide, and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes (another one of these in the deck could be great). Feed the Clan from your maybeboard would be good here as well, and maybe think about adding Honor's Reward, Archangel of Thune, and Dromoka's Command (or maybe just sideboard this). In order to make room for these guys though, I would cut most of your green creatures (except, maybe, Ageless Entity, the gods, Bow of Nylea, Search for Tomorrow, and Explosive Vegetation; basically anything that isn't taking advantage of your primary strategy. If you're worried about early game mana, Birds of Paradise could be in your future or a similar one drop.
Hope this is helpful!
1 week ago
Yeah, flying is something I'm worried about as well and I'm similarly trying to fit in cards that can fill in multiple roles (which is why Bow of Nylea is in my Maybeboard despite it being a proverbial master of none). Here's some cards I brainstormed up, maybe you'll find something useful among them:
Bitterblossom is cheap and could give you some chump blockers that can attack, be sac'd and trigger Path of Discovery as well. There's also Hornet Nest & Chronozoa but they require some setup and aren't very cheap.
I see you removed Nyx Weaver at some point, how do you feel about taking it back? It doesn't solve things completely but with 3 toughness and reach it's a pretty OK blocker in addition to its graveyard-related abilities.