|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Rare|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Rare|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Rare|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Rare|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Rare|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Wheel of Fortune
Each player discards his or her hand and draws seven cards.
Wheel of Fortune Discussion
1 week ago
I would also recommend a wheel effect or two, just because their great card draw and can really mess up your opponents (the downside being that you can accidentally help your opponents, I'd use them as a political tool). Cards like: Echo of Eons , Jace's Archivist , Time Spiral , Windfall , or the OG Wheel of Fortune .
1 week ago
enpc Your response makes me believe you didn't actually read the OP through. Further suggested by how you said earlier that I forgot to talk about White's ability to resource denial while I clearly had a shorter paragraph mentioning Armageddon , Ravages of War and Limited Resources and how I didn't believe that archetype was a very progressive way to forward white's multiplayer playability in Commander, even though it is one of white's more powerful archetypes but it has some nasty side effects on the political spectrum.
My main problem with white having to almost exclusively go to artifacts for fixing their problems on ramp and card draw is exactly because artifacts are plentiful in Commander and therefore many run artifact removal. It is quite tough as a white player that spent a lot of mana on dishing out mana ramp and/or card draw artifacts, just to have an opponent cast Bane of Progress or Vandalblast or be the target of an incidental Casualties of War or Aura Shards , and there's limited options for white to counter that, bar the expensive catch-all . Why green has better and more flexible counters that actually fits white more is a bit strange to me and I wish white had at least a comparable answer that didn't cost 40$.
In a way I wouldn't mind if white also got some artifact restoration as they did in the older days . Blue and red has some good artifact pulls but white did have that same affinity back in the day, so it is definitely part of their color pie . White just has a huge problem again with the symmetrical effects being a disadvantage in multiplayer unless they can fuel the graveyard - which they cannot by themselves.
One solution could be a Tempting Offer card that pulls back artifacts.
Tempting Offer Show
White's tempting artifact recovery
Tempting Offer - Return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Each opponent may an artifact card from their graveyard to the battlefield. For each opponent who does, you may return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Most opponents would likely take the offer to return their strongest artifact to their board, and in exchange white gets to mass-return their wrecked artifacts at a discount. Unlike say Tempt with Discovery which in general should never be accepted.
One of the mana ramp suggestions (in the OP) was indeed to return low CMC permanents, which could hit ramp artifacts as well - so pulling double duty and well within white's color pie. Getting extra lands this way is more resilient versus playing mana artifacts but requires extra steps compared to mana artifacts and will never be a true replacement but merely a supplement. And it's not the first time white restores lands .
I think it would be better if white players could included these types of permanent restoration cards into their decks and it was viable, rather than having to put Manalith into their deck.
Again these suggestions are unlikely to replace mana artifacts or become auto-includes, but they could provide good supplementary support. I advocate choice, but if improvements could be made to a color specific solution to a color that falls behind in the format, then I see no issue.
And none of the suggested cards are something I would imagine would swim rather than sink in eternal formats, but it's possible there's something I overlook.
It's also meant as a general take on a possible solution, and not necessarily the only thing needed to improve white's ability to compete in casual EDH. For instance if the land restoration cards I suggested was a way to go, then more cards that facilitate that line of play could be made. More functional reprints of Evolving Wilds , a variant on Flagstones of Trokair or basically anything that helps that line of play and doesn't need to be *the* fetchlands . Prismatic Vista was a very good alternative to the fetchlands, that sadly has taken a very similar price trend. Although I think that may have more to do with the price of the Modern Horizons set compared to what value was in there, than the actual card - a cash-back so to speak. Now I just hope for future functional reprints - even while owning 2 Prismatic Vista s.
White lands that end up in the graveyard Show
Variant on Flagstones of Trokair
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a basic Plains card and put it onto the battlefield, you gain 2 life.
Something with a line of play that lets you put lands into the graveyard but not fall behind on lands in play.
, : Look at the top 6 cards of your library, you may put any number of land cards from among them into your graveyard, then put the rest of the cards on the bottom of your library in a random order. You may shuffle your library.
Outside the colors of Jund's lands matters deck. Outside of most landfall decks. Will likely cause Crucible of Worlds to increase in price, but is an example of something white could do that isn't specifically self-mill, isn't draw discard and isn't land- Buried Alive .
White have previously had a somewhat similar effect in Endless Horizons , one that is somewhat similar to Land Tax . Where Endless Horizons essentially provides deck thinning and pseudo card-advantage, it also presents a rather significant risk if blown up, especially if you play greedy - don't do it. This suggested land or whatever it will end up being, it doesn't need to be a land... it can thin your deck and throw lands in the graveyard, and provide a library shuffle if needed.
What I mean to say with the above, is that the suggestions in the OP and here is more about a direction of solutions to this perceived issue with white in casual Commander, more than it is "this card will single-handedly turn white into just as great a color as green for Commander". Therefore reflecting on these cards' viability in context to only existing cards would be against the point I try to make.
Think of red for a moment. For almost two decades, red didn't have actual card advantage. They had Browbeat as a punisher mechanic, they had Wheel of Fortune in the very early days but those are more exceptions than the rule. Then red got their temporary draw or draws with downside with an underlying theme "it's here in the now, use it or waste it". Card draw is so basic and essential to the game, that each color has come up with ways to achieve it. I think white needs to find a similar solution for multiplayer formats.
And finally, to quote you; "But if your argument is that they're not as good (the manarocks) and so you don't want to play them, then tough, welcome to how balancing works. And if that's not fair in your mind then you have some really bad double standards."
Does balancing need to include price tags? Joke aside.
But how come a large portion of the Commander community has expressed that white and to a lesser extend red are the least powerful colors in Commander, especially white when considering mono color? Red is getting support lately and is improving, but white falls behind.
Do you claim you know balance better than all those people?
1 week ago
Sylvan Tutor 's price is based almost entirely off scarcity. P3K was a small starter set released in the Asia market and not released in the North America market. It's a small and rare set from 20 years ago, so any even halfway decent effects are going to be extremely price dollar wise. Great effects that are cEDH playable are extremely expensive, Imperial Seal Three Visits Ravages of War Burning of Xinye Warrior's Oath
I think the effect is great. Most green decks could benefit from including it. It does lose a lot of utility being a sorcery though. You must give your opponent a full turn, with your opponent knowing that you have a selected card coming to you. Compare to instant speed Worldly Tutor . You play at your opponent's end step, and you get to untap and play your creature before your opponent gets to untap + draw. Also consider that with an instant speed tutor, if you need to do something else instead, like Counterspell , you have that option. And last but not least, instant speed tutor gives you potential for blowouts. If you Worldly Tutor to grab Alms Collector then crack Chromatic Star (or any other effect to draw 1 at instant speed) to get it into your hand, you can get huge plays against Wheel of Fortune type effects. The same is true for Aven Mindcensor against Protean Hulk , and so forth.
2 weeks ago
So realistically that is just kind of what Magic does. In the same way that Wheel of Fortune is on Magus of the Wheel , or that Urza, Lord High Artificer has Tolarian Academy as an ability, or that Beast Whisperer is Glimpse of Nature , it's that simplest way to create something knew without reinventing the proverbial wheel. It happens all the time.
While a creature that is Warstorm Surge on a body might be very powerful, I would thing it would defiantly be an option for them t some point. They may just worry about the synergies that you are thinking about being a bit on the broken side.
Your looking at Riku of Two Reflections , Deadeye Navigator , Conjurer's Closet , Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker , and the like being able to blink this creature for a ton of damage all over the board. It could be easily broken.
Theoretically, it would recognize itself entering the battlefield, and just go off if it wasn't countered.
2 weeks ago
Planar Bridge > Ring of 3 wish. 10 mana to just get a card in your hand or more mana to get any permanent (your deck is all permanents) onto the battlefield.
This deck is a fine piece of work, I like how it's actually tuned. I have a Norin deck myself but it's more good stuff with some synergy I hope to find through wheels and draw.
How is grinning ingus been for you?
NOTE: Description of Kiki + Meteor golem = nonland permanent, not permanent.
I know you're avg CMC is low (for mono red norin anyways) and you run a shit ton of ramp. How is getting land drops been? I still sometimes struggle to get lands even with 38 lands
2 weeks ago
Play more wheels!
2 weeks ago
Finally had some time to give some insight!
Here is a list of possible cards that you can use depending on the route/direction you want it to go for!
- Viscera Seer
- Baleful Strix
- River Kelpie
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
- Gilded Drake
- Blood Artist
- Zulaport Cutthroat
- Mayhem Devil
- Judith, the Scourge Diva
- Drana, Liberator of Malakir
- Gray Merchant of Asphodel
- Imperial Recruiter
- Gonti, Lord of Luxury
- Hostage Taker
- Vindictive Lich
- Zealous Conscripts
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
- Agent of Treachery
- Rune-Scarred Demon
- Vilis, Broker of Blood
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
- Praetor's Grasp
- Yawgmoth's Will
- Altar of Dementia
- Ashnod's Altar
- Cloudstone Curio
- Lim-Dul's Vault
- Faithless Looting
- Frantic Search
- Wheel of Fortune
- Dance of the Dead
- Animate Dead
- Wake the Dead
- Shallow Grave
- Corpse Dance
- Buried Alive
- Living Death
- Phyrexian Reclamation
Feel free to ask about any card choices! There is probably more cards but I can't think of any off the top of my head haha
3 weeks ago
I agree with the above comment, your deck needs lots of card draw.
Boros Locket - Budget ramp and draw
Lapse of Certainty - Just fun with sunforger, no1 expects it. Just cute
Magus of the Wheel - Card draw
Wheel of Fortune - Expensive but better card draw
Wheel of Fate - Conditional wheel
Reforge the Soul - Conditional wheel
Scroll Rack - Cute with land tax and wheels.
Regarding your meta choices, keep in mind that adjusting to the meta is always a good and healthy thing. Putting in 1 card because it messes with 1 particular deck is another, not including the potential benefit it can give you. Moreover, MLD, even if it gives basics can still make people mad. Make sure your playgroup is ok with it. Not saying I would be mad, but you never know regarding some people.
Wheel of Fortune occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.05%
UBR (Grixis): 0.74%