Argothian Elder

Creature — Elf Druid

{T}: Untap two target lands.

Combos

• Argothian Elder + Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx + Wirewood Lodge
• Argothian Elder + Jungle Basin + Wirewood Lodge

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Planar Constructed	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Premodern	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (45)

legendofa on Why is Untapping Lands a …

2 months ago

wallisface First of all, I want to make sure that there aren't any hard feelings here. I'm treating this as a friendly, or at least respectful, debate, and I don't want to come across as provocative or aggressive, only trying to defend my point.

But if I may take issue about your taking issue about what counts as an old card, I asked what extremely old cards you were referring to, and all of your examples were pre-2002. So I don't think I moved any goalposts about anything you said. From my point of view, all of your "extremely old" cards are at least twenty years old, which I would agree with. The "goalpost card" here, as I saw from your examples, was Argothian Elder. So I wasn't expecting you to follow up with cards from as recently as ten years ago being exteremly old. I would definitely call those outdated, but I wouldn't use the word "extremely" for those.

And if you say I'm putting words into your mouth, then I'm also misinterpreting what you mean by

• "this does not take into account the actual percentage of cards printed in any given year."

• "meaning those 2 cards represented a significantly lower percentage of what green represented that year."

• "this effect has been getting an increasingly lower-percentage-share of cards given to it."

My position, which I believe is supported by MaRo's previous statements, is that proportion of cards printed in a given year isn't a relevant measure of color primacy. I'm interpreting those statements as trying to argue that view. Could you please explain this again?

wallisface on Why is Untapping Lands a …

2 months ago

legendofa I have an issue with you contesting my statement of "a large portion of those cards are extremely old" and then deciding yourself what the goalposts should be for my own statement. I never said that only old-bordered cards are old... the current "new" border has still been in use for a ridiculous quantity of time, and the colour pie has shifted numerous times since its creation. For me, anything that was printed 10+ years ago, fits into the "extremely old" category... so if you're going to pull me-up on what's old-or-new, that is the yardstick i'm measuring.

Now, ordering cards by how old they actually are (instead of arbitrary card-frames) yields the following (using only the cards you've already listed):

1993 (31 years ago): Ley Druid

1995 (29 years ago): Juniper Order Druid

1996 (28 years ago): Nature's Chosen, Emerald Charm

1997 (27 years ago): Elder Druid, Earthcraft, Llanowar Druid

1998 (26 years ago): Awakening, Argothian Elder

1999 (25 years ago): Early Harvest

2002 (22 years ago): Krosan Restorer

2004 (20 years ago): Rude Awakening, Nature's Will

2005 (19 years ago): Stone-Seeder Hierophant, Seedborn Muse, Patron of the Orochi

2006 (18 years ago): Magus of the Candelabra

2007 (17 years ago): Woodland Guidance

2009 (15 years ago): Garruk Wildspeaker

2010 (14 years ago): Bear Umbra

2012 (12 years ago): Arbor Elf, Urban Burgeoning

2013 (11 years ago): Voyaging Satyr

2014 (10 years ago): Nissa, Worldwaker

2017 (7 years ago): Initiate's Companion, Hope Tender, Nissa, Genesis Mage, Blossom Dryad

2018 (6 years ago): Ley Weaver, Cacophodon

2019 (5 years ago): Wilderness Reclamation, Rime Tender

2021 (3 years ago): Sculptor of Winter, Saryth, the Viper's Fang, Jorn, God of Winter  ^Flip

2022 (2 years ago): Likeness of the Seeker  ^Flip, Civic Gardener

2023 (last year): Rustvine Cultivator, Portent Tracker

2024 (this year): Innocuous Researcher

Using the above data, the below rant is in defense of my claim "From what i’m seeing, the general trend is that this effect used to be quite prominent in green but something that’s slowly being phased out/down for green over time", which may have been the other thing you were contesting??

Now, at face value this paints a picture that indicates an-eb-and-flow of constant printings of green-land-untap effects, perhaps even slightly favoring those printings in the more recent years. HOWEVER - this does not take into account the actual percentage of cards printed in any given year.

For example, in 1996 2 cards exist in our category, BUT only 468 new cards were printed that year. 2022 also has 2 cards in our category printed, but also had 2004 new cards printed into it, meaning those 2 cards represented a significantly lower percentage of what green represented that year.

With Wotc printing an increasingly large quantity of cards every year, this effect has been getting an increasingly lower-percentage-share of cards given to it. The one anomaly I see is 2017, where 4 cards were printed in a year that made 861 new cards, making it about on-par with our beforementioned 1996 example.

legendofa on Why is Untapping Lands a …

2 months ago

wallisface I'm still going to contest that. Scryfall search comes up with 45 mono-green cards with the words "untap" and "land". Ignoring stuff like Blizzard and Choke, there are nine cards in that group with ye olde bordere that untap lands, seven with the Modern border, and fourteen with the 2015 border, skipping those whose primary purpose is to turn lands into creatures like Wakeroot Elemental. Two of them are legal in Standard, and thirteen--about a third of the total, and more than ye olde bordere--are legal in Pioneer. I'm not seeing the dropoff for land untapping in green.

{G} Ye Olde Bordere, "untap" + "land": Ley Druid, Elder Druid, Juniper Order Druid, Nature's Chosen, Early Harvest, Earthcraft, Awakening, Argothian Elder, Krosan Restorer. total 9

{G} Modern Border, "untap" + "land": Rude Awakening, Nature's Will, Stone-Seeder Hierophant, Magus of the Candelabra, Garruk Wildspeaker, Bear Umbra, Urban Burgeoning, Voyaging Satyr. total 8

{G} 2015 Border, "untap" + "land": Nissa, Worldwaker, Initiate's Companion, Hope Tender, Nissa, Genesis Mage, Blossom Dryad, Ley Weaver, Wilderness Reclamation, Sculptor of Winter, Saryth, the Viper's Fang, Likeness of the Seeker  ^Flip, Civic Gardener, Rustvine Cultivator, Portent Tracker, Innocuous Researcher. total 14

{G} Ye Olde Bordere, "untap" + "permanent": Emerald Charm, Seedborn Muse. total 2

{G} Modern Border, "untap" + "permanent": none.

{G} 2015 Border, "untap" + "permanent": Cacophodon, Rime Tender, Jorn, God of Winter  ^Flip. total 3

{G} Ye Olde Bordere, "untap" + "Forest": Llanowar Druid. total 1

{G} Modern Border, "untap" + "Forest": Patron of the Orochi, Woodland Guidance, Arbor Elf. total 3

{G} 2015 Border, "untap" + "Forest": none.

So there's 39 green cards that can untap lands in some capacity, with 34 of those being more or less land-specific. Again, these counts ignore cards that untap lands by turning lands into creatures, focusing only on those whose main function is the untap. It also ignores Un-cards.

Analysis of blue to follow.

wallisface on Why is Untapping Lands a …

2 months ago

legendofa the extremely old cards i’m seeing are stuff like Argothian Elder, Awakening, Early Harvest, Earthcraft, Elder Druid, Juniper Order Druid, and Nature's Chosen.

From what i’m seeing, the general trend is that this effect used to be quite prominent in green but something that’s slowly being phased out/down for green over time.

Belfore on Marwyn Elfs

7 months ago

Well you seem to be lacking in flying defense. You could also use some recursion since your token production is only 8 cards I would personally drop the Arboreal Alliance since you are not producing that many tokens. And I know it is a way to use all the mana you can produce but you need some more reusable uses for the mana.

I spent most of this weekend testing your deck against some of mine which are also go wide strategies. And what I kept running into was that your ability to get damage through was struggling. I think you need to get some more sources of trample or bypassing defenders. Another problem I was having was you would be top decking to quickly.I felt it just kept running out of steam.

I personally would drop Arbor Elf for Argothian Elder. It may cost more mana but it would let you untap Nykthos without Yavimaya in play, drop Quirion Ranger for Seeker of Skybreak just a bit less hassle for untapping a creature. even though she gets an interesting trick when you have Ashaya out. I would also drop Woodland Bellower for the Skyshroud Poacher just because it is easier to reuse. Elvish Guidance can have its uses but I think Growing Rites of Itlimoc  ^Flip is still a bit more useful, for your mana outlet I would absolutely keep Staff of Domination over Thousand-Year Elixir. I am surprised you dropped both Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen and Jagged-Scar Archers since those were your only real answers to flying maybe consider Raking Canopy or Gravity Well to help against flying heavy decks. Mobilize and Vitalize are a little too weak for the card slots I think. I think a couple of more useful options would actually be Taunting Elf, Nemesis Mask, and/or Tempting Licid of those 3 taunting elf is weakest. But what those would allow you to do is get your pumped up elves through with minimal losses and minimal investment for the finishing blow.

I do have more thoughts if you want but as always feedback on what you are aiming for always helps (EG: Going tall, going wide, elf ball, kill through combat, or focusing on I win effects (I don't like I win effects))

RCD2023 on Lathiel, Who Blots Out the Sun

1 year ago

hello rakdosrunner!!

i really enjoyed the enforce that u had describing the deck and the mechanics.

i'm playing Lathiel for a long long time and i'm updating him a lot since then.

all the cards that u described i alredy test it, some of then still in the deck but mostly i had cut from the deck in order to be fastier and be more "Go for the troat" (my playgroup dont play easy haha).

firstly i wanna say the awesome cards that i wouldn't dare to touch that u metion before: Aetherflux Reservoir Authority of the Consuls Mangara, the Diplomat True Conviction Worldly Tutor Teferi's Protection Ozolith, the Shattered Spire Branching Evolution Light of Promise Well of Lost Dreams Scholar of New Horizons Tribute to the World Tree Esper Sentinel

it took me a long time to get this deck better and i still getting some frustations but if you like to consider, here some tips of cards to be implemented in order to have a better experience with it: ( mostly of this cards i proxed it because i dont wanna spend a lot of money and because i dont have a headache changing they every 2 months when wizards bring some new things )

starting with the nasty combos :

God Mode ( infinity mana + infinity draw :D ) : Argothian Elder or Priest of Titania + Quirion Ranger+ Ashaya, Soul of the Wild + Beast Whisperer with Eternal Witness in the deck u can even cast your grave again

Lathiel Gatling Gun: Walking Ballista + Heliod, Sun-Crowned or Cleric Class

“Life moves pretty fast..” — Ferris Bueller’s Spike Feeder + Light of Promise

ramp : Marwyn, the Nurturer : counters will get him a good ramp Mirari's Wake : awesome ramp Land Tax: can save you in early game Burgeoning : get ahead Priest of Titania : every elf in the battlefield Exploration : get ahead again Arbor Elf : very good with Selesnya Sanctuary or some mana that u need Mana Reflection: awesome ramp Circle of Dreams Druid : gaeas crandle in creature Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx : why not ? proxy <3 Crop Rotation: get those good lands in battlefield Carpet of Flowers: very good against 2 or more people Smothering Tithe : just perfect

draw : Generous Patron: our green budget risky study, perfect in lathiel Guardian Project : good in general The Great Henge : we have big creatures so probably will cost onle 2 green mana Toski, Bearer of Secrets : unstapable, can't be countered and draw Archivist of Oghma: meh... sometimes good sometimes not, but its 2 mana

tutors: Finale of Devastation : go for the troat Enlightened Tutor: very good tutor in our deck Eladamri's Call : get those pieces that u need Fauna Shaman : get those pieces that u need Defense of the Heart: this is funny, but moste of times works haha Yisan, the Wanderer Bard : good in general Natural Order : to the battlefield! Primal Command : say goodbye to ur grave zombie players

utility: Akroma's Will: defense or end game Alhammarret's Archive : it's 5 mana, but double life gain and double draw Eternal Witness : u have awesome cretures that people wanna destroy so... also good piece of combo God Mode Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines : Hushbringer + Hardened Scales, but better Serra Ascendant: sooooo goood in this deck ... first piece to be tutored by yisan, the wanderer bard Angel of Destiny: go for the troat Ashaya, Soul of the Wild: combo, but also a big creature Overwhelming Stampede : go for the troat Walking Ballista: good in general andd combo Cleric Class: combo but also grave Spike Feeder : Snowball effect, one of the best synergy of lathiel, 'each turn' change counters for life/

Good interactions : Aura Shards , Force of Vigor 2 ducks 1 shot ,Farewell exile :) , Kenrith's Transformation (interaction with draw)

Helnas on

1 year ago

Dorks die voor 3+ mana tappen: Priest of Titania, Circle of Dreams Druid, Elvish Archdruid ,Karametra's Acolyte, Marwyn, the Nurturer, Wirewood Channeler

Combo's:

Sword of the Paruns of Umbral Mantle + dork die voor 4 mana tapped = infinite

Staff of Domination + dork die voor 5 mana tapped = infinite

Cloudstone Curio + Wirewood Symbiote + dork die voor 3 mana tapped +1 cmc elf

Combo's met Ashaya, Soul of the Wild op het veld.

Quirion Ranger + dork die voor 2 mana tapped.

Quirion Ranger + Lightning Greaves of Concordant Crossroads = tap ashaya voor mana, speel quirion, tap quirion voor mana, return quirion, untap ashaya.

Scryb Ranger + dork die voor 3 mana tapped.

Argothian Elder zonder summoning sickness = beide teams infinite mana

Combo's met Temur Sabertooth op het veld.

Wirewood Symbiote + 1 cmc elf om te bouncen + mana dork die voor 5+ tapped.

Lightning Greaves of Concordant Crossroads of Thousand-Year Elixir + 2 cmc dork die voor 5 tapped, 3 cmc dork die voor 6 tapped of 4 cmc dork die voor 7 tapped.

Eternal Witness + Vitalize + creatures die voor 7 mana tappen.

Eternal Witness + Benefactor's Draught + creatures die voor 8 mana tappen.

Combo's involving lands

Elvish Guidance + Arbor Elf + een untapper zoals Umbral Mantle of Sword of the Paruns

Argothian Elder +Wirewood Lodge + Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx of Gaea's Cradle

Aanvallen met Argothian Elder + Maze of Ith + infinite mana outlet

mlequesne on Dime-store Derevi (Competitive, Budget $100!!)

1 year ago

I love your deck friend! :)

If untapping is your thing Argothian Elder can be another enabler