Dreadwaters

Sorcery

Target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of lands you control.

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Arena	Legal
Block Constructed	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Gladiator	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Historic	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Modern	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Pauper	Legal
Pauper Duel Commander	Legal
Pauper EDH	Legal
Pioneer	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (50)

keizerbuns on Sea of Attrition [Physical] [Beta]

1 year ago

This is a very cool concept, however it seems a little scattered. With lifegain, mill, tokens, tap/bounce control, stat manipulation, and creature stealing, it seems like your deck is being pulled in too many different directions without enough focus on any one thing in particular to give it a clear identity. Mill especially is kind of an all or nothing strategy that requires the entire deck to be built around it in order to work. Unless you have a really good mill/graveyard payoff to justify splashing in some mill spells, milling your opponent for just a few cards here and there won’t do anything except take up slots in your deck.

The best advice I think I could give you, and probably the same advice most other people will give you too, is to find your favourite element or two of the deck, and make that the focus. However, if you don’t want to do that, and you do want to keep the deck as a little bit of everything, I do have some suggestions that I think you might like.

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My first suggestion would be to replace Dreadwaters with a lower CMC mill spell, because spending 4 mana to make one opponent mill for what I assume averages to be around 4-6 cards isn't a great rate. For just 2 mana you could use Maddening Cacophony and make each opponent mill 8 cards, and for an extra 4 you could make them mill half of their decks. You could also replace a couple of Islands with a couple copies of Ipnu Rivulet for some added milling consistency, although activating its mill ability would cause you to lose a land.

Talrand's Invocation also suffers from the same issue as Dreadwaters of just being too mana intensive for such a small effect. Paying 4 mana just to get 2 2/2 flyers is a little slow. I think Murmuring Mystic would suit you better as a long term token generator.

Ichthyomorphosis and Time of Ice both kind of get in the way of your plan to steal your opponent's creatures. Ichthyomorphosis turns your opponent's creatures into something not worth stealing and Time of Ice could potentially cause a creature you just stole from your opponent to be sent back to their hand. Instead of using Time of Ice to tap your opponents creatures, you could use an instant or a sorcery such as Downpour, Impede Momentum, Choking Tethers, or Sleep to achieve the same result. And instead of Ichthyomorphosis to permanently turn your opponents creatures into something small, you could use Turn to Frog which you can use to catch your opponents by surprise during the combat stage. Swapping both Ichthyomorphosis and Time of Ice for instants and sorceries would also synergize great with Murmuring Mystic to spam tokens.

You could replace Staff of the Mind Magus with Diamond Mare, which is admittedly a weaker life gain spell since it can't gain life off of your lands entering the battlefield, plus it's more susceptible to removal. However it is a cheaper CMC card and another creature to beat your opponents down with.

I think Niblis of Frost is better than Dragon Turtle at keeping your opponent's creatures tapped if you go with the previously mentioned replacements for Ichthyomorphosis and Time of Ice, plus with the Prowess ability, it can get pretty big with all of the instants and sorceries. And Sower of Temptation is a lower CMC version of Mind Flayer.

I also realized as I was looking back through my suggestions, that if you do end up going with all of them, then that would mean your deck would meet the deck requirements to add Gyruda, Doom of Depths as a companion, which would serve as a pretty good payoff for your mill cards!

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Hopefully this was helpful!

metalrayn on Pauper EDH Deck Compendium

3 years ago

Senate Guildmage

built this deck just so I could play Clear the Mind I have always loved the card but had not built a deck that wanted it. I chose not to play any infinite combos so...if Dreadwaters doesn't get there I either attack with mull drifter, or crush my opponents will to live by looping Deprive

BLOODGUILT on mono blue mill

4 years ago

I played a lot of mill in standard. I don't see the point in Dreadwaters yes it has a high ceiling but on turn four its only milling 4 cards. I would take those out for 4x Island . I did a few playtest of your deck and was stuck on two land for way too many turns. I also agree with Mullac Minister of Inquiries doesn't really fit. Hedron Crab is much stronger choice. However, a few Negate s or other counter magic would do you more good.

Nasser_inside1 on 42-Land Trade Routes

4 years ago

I would recommend some self mill spells like Dreadwaters , Ashiok, Dream Render (the black part doesn’t matter), and Hermit Druid ,

Some draw spells like Opt , Hydroid Krasis , Growth Spiral , Urban Evolution , and Divination

Love the deck though!

metalrayn on

4 years ago

I love this general. How do you actually win? Dreadwaters and a couple ways to get it back would be a real fun win con. Also Dreamscape Artist and your general go together like bread and butter.

McToters on Mill Under a Crescent Moon

4 years ago

Love me some blue Kami! How about Tunnel Vision ? You can use it to mill or as a tutor on yourself. I think Dreadwaters can be useful here too.

+1

SynergyBuild on What is yours is mine!

5 years ago

To start, I'll work on the manabase. Temple of the False God and Darksteel Ingot should be dropped immediately, with Talisman of Indulgence and Mind Stone as nearly direct upgrades in this specific deck. I would also drop Rogue's Passage, Dismal Backwater, a single Swamp, and Dimir Aqueduct for Darkwater Catacombs, River of Tears, Fetid Pools, and Underground River.

This should smothen your draws and manabase, giving you your colors faster and more efficiently, for a small cost. Other cards I would drop outside the manabase would be Grisly Spectacle, Balustrade Spy, In Bolas's Clutches, Hedonist's Trove, Psychic Strike, Fated Return, Keening Stone, Mindcrank, Trepanation Blade, Riddlekeeper, Dreadwaters, Increasing Confusion, Paranoid Delusions, Psychic Drain, and Traumatize, many of these 15 cards are simply overcosted or only affect one player, and don't do enough.

Cards I would run instead would be Animate Dead, Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, Phenax, God of Deception, Mesmeric Orb, Szadek, Lord of Secrets, Counterspell, Brainstorm, Ponder, Stroke of Genius, Prismatic Lens, Jace, Memory Adept, Dreamborn Muse, Thought Scour, Dimir Charm, Whispering Madness

qao50 on Mill and recreate

5 years ago

Removed:

1x Hover Barrier - Not a huge fan of defenders in decks as they usually stall out the game rather than add value.

1x Dreadwaters - not the most milling. if you had a higher land curve id say its fine.

1x Fog Bank - same as Hover Barrier

1x Returned Centaur - Not too useful as a creature, essentially paying 4 mana to mill four cards which you can get better value for.

1x Sidisi's Faithful - your deck isnt revolved around sacrificing and I dont think you have enough cards that you'd be okay with sacrificing for this to be viable.

1x Sigiled Starfish - Scrying is cool and useful, but once again more value can be added to this deck.

1x Wall of Frost - same as Hover Barrier

1x Wight of Precinct Six - Better options.

1x Mind Sculpt - In edh a one-use 7 mill card isn't worth. Every card should add good value.

1x Paranoid Delusions - If this deck revolved around unblockable attacking this would be good, but since it doesn't it's just a 3 mill card.

1x Reave Soul - This could also stay in, but most threats in edh are generally above three and this being a sorcery hurts its value.

1x Tormented Thoughts - Again, you don't have creatures to sacrifice, so I wouldn't use sacrificing as a function in this deck.

1x Chronic Flooding - This can be a good card if someone is mana starved, but more often than not it's gonna just make that one land go unused.

1x Macabre Waltz - Not the strongest way to get back creatures, getting them onto the battlefield is a more efficient use of your mana.

Addition:

1x Duskmantle Guildmage - can generate mill when you need and can combo with the first effect to do a LOT of damage.

1x Jace's Archivist - Drawing aspect, gets cards in graveyard, can give you a new hand. Great card.

1x Mortivore - this is Wight of Precinct Six on crack. Plus you can regenerate him.

1x Notion Thief - I'm almost mad I'm including this but this is busted. unfortunately, it'll probably get killed all the time.

1x Psychic Spiral - A lot of Mill potential.

1x Talent of the Telepath - seven mill and you get to steal one or two spells.

1x Diabolic Tutor - can never have enough tutors.

1x Mindcrank - This can honestly win the game.

1x Life's Finale - Board wipes are always nice.

1x Stolen Identity - Copying shit is nice, but the cipher is what makes this so good.

1x Manic Scribe - Not the strongest but can be nice. assuming its later in the game, four card types should be in the graveyard so thats 3 mill every upkeep.

1x Traumatize - Fuck this card.

1x Soul Manipulation - counter that also mills.

1x Whispering Madness - spell version of Jace's Archivist.

1x Startled Awake  ^Flip - 13 mill that can keep coming back.

1x Body Double - could probably get a better card to replace this. but late game when graveyards are fat this can come in handy.

1x Dimir Doppelganger - since you'll play other people who use graveyards, you can exile creatures from graveyards to make them unusable, while still getting your use.

Cards you can keep but I personally dont like in the deck:

Omniscience - omniscience is op and I get why you'd want it but your mana curve is pretty low and it costs so much that I doubt youd get it out and make use of it.

Altar of the Brood - I dont know how this plays in games, but you're not getting out a lot of permanents so i dont see how this works too well.

Gravepurge - this lets you get back any creature into your hand, which is good, but you could just get a card that puts it back onto the battlefield.

Thoughtscour - this is realistically just a draw card.

Ultimate Price - that monocolor restriction holds this card back so much. Doom Blade would be better if you want it to be a low price.

Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - I dont know how to feel about this, the exile feature kinda messes with your use from the graveyard style but you can use the second effect to get some of the creatures. It puts all of those exiled cards into a world only he can interact with which makes him good and useful, but limits your decks synergy.

Animate Dead - theres a lot of revive from graveyard cards in this deck is all im gonna say. maybe too many.

Curse of the Bloody Tome - this is helpful and makes sure someones getting milled which is good, but two an upkeep isnt very strong.

Sands of Delirium - not bad and gives you ability to mill every turn, but this is only usable when you can't do anything since you need to have disposable mana.

Cards that should be abused more:

Sphinx's Tutelage - if you make your deck able to draw more this card can be ridiculously op.

Broken Cards you can add (may be Expensive):

Lich Lord of Unx and Undead Alchemist - are both great but you'd have to turn your deck into a zombie deck and it would make you rely less on other graveyards. I dont think relying on other graveyards is good. this could also add a sacrifice element and you could use cards like Altar of Dementia. - overhauling to a zombie deck would be expensive but i think it'd be really effective.

Tunnel Vision - this could be dumb busted, i saw a combo of if you have a card that lets you put on the bottom of someones library then use this you immediately mill them out. That's gay tho dont do that.

Trepanation Blade - this is some nice mill and adds damage and attack to a possibility of your deck.

Extractor Demon - you'd need to run zombies.

Dralnu, Lich Lord - i hate to say it but zombies is looking like the way to go. get more effectiveness out of your spells.

Phenax, God of Deception - if you want your deck to be less based around mill and more just blue black interactions this dude's good. can make a defender deck worthwhile. probably the best consistent mill card I've seen.

Havengul Lich - cast creatures from ALL graveyards. shit i might buy this guy.

Sewer Nemesis - good

Decree of Pain - boardwipes are op