Dralnu, Lich Lord
Legendary Creature — Zombie Wizard
If damage would be dealt to Dralnu, sacrifice that many permanents instead.
Tap: Target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard has flashback until end of turn. Its flashback cost becomes equal to its mana cost as you play it. (You may play that card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then remove it from the game.)
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Dralnu, Lich Lord Discussion
1 week ago
Hey buildingadeckI really like your deck lot and I currently am in the process of building my own Dralnu, Lich Lorddeck myself. I do have one question... How as Copy Artifactbeen playing for you? I saw on reddit that you use it to copy opponents mana rocks, but you also mentionned Swan combo and I wondered what was the actual combo?
1 week ago
Penguin_Gamer_1, You are completely correct.
All the other 2017 pre-cons had only 3 legends, and he was the only mono-color, so I guess he just slipped my mind.
I wouldn't say he's completely comboless, since I think he's probably the best commander for the old Darksteel Plate + Worldslayer lock. However that's not really cEDH worthy, so T4 is correct as well. I'll add him in.
Lilbrudder, We've listed enough reasons for demoting Prossh and enough people have agreed that I'm comfortable demoting him to T1.5. I'll put up that Blood Pod deck as well.
Gates88, If you're going to write us what is essentially a small essay, can you at least do us the courtesy of fact checking it like it's one?
Mairsil, the Pretender, The combo for Mairsil has already been figured out. Simply get Mirror-Mad Phantasm (or Razaketh) caged and you have an "I win" button for 5 mana or less. Since you're already running LabMan and cantrips Doomsday makes a fine plan B. Tier 2 is accurate for that strategy.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded, The deck I made for him goes off on turn 3 or 4 every game, and I haven't even improved it in over a month. If you think that Sidisi is going off 2 turns earlier than that you're insane.
Teferi, Temporal Archmage, I think a deck who's main combo wants you to run as many 2+ rocks as possible can get away with having a 6 mana commander, especially when that commander is going to refund you that mana the turn you play him. If anything, Teferi's gotten an upgrade recently, because Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter can be run excellently alongside his main strategy (so can HT+Candelabra, for that matter). The decklist we have up doesn't reflect this, while somehow having time for trash like Manifold Insights, so maybe it's time for us to get a new one. If the meta really has been stacked against Teferi strategically recently then we can consider demoting him, but I'm not demoting him just because he's unpopular right now, and I don't think he should be dropped below T1.5 if we do.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain, This is a 3 color, commander tax resistant commander, that turns your graveyard into your hand, generates value with any creature that puts itself in the graveyard, and has multiple win-on-the-spot combos that can be kicked off for as little as 3 mana. I'M NOT PUTTING HIM IN TIER 3.
Aside from all that, could you also try not to make statements don't bring anything new to the discussion?
"General Tazri - Fast, consistent, resilient - everything you'd want in a combo deck. Obviously tier 1."
Ok, sure, but no one has even been contesting that, so why did you need to bring it up? Almost half of your comments in that post are to say that a commander should stay right where it is, when there hasn't even been any talk of moving it down. Why bother telling us? It just distracts from anything interesting you might be saying.
I don't take an issue with you making a very long post, or with you sharing your opinion, but in the future, please try your best to make sure that everything you're saying is really worth saying, and that the comment you make is the best one you're able to make, before hitting send. Because reading all that as it was was annoying.
You did make some good points in all that, so let me give you a response to them:
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder, There's been some talk of moving him down. I will consider it. But after all the talk about sticking him and swinging the next turn in the KessVsJeleva discussion, I can't help feeling like we're missing an easier way to go off with him on the same turn. Adding Concordant Crossroads and Need for Speed to the deck might be worthwhile. JimWolfie's deck also doesn't run Hurkyl's Recall or Retract, both of which seem really good with the cascade trigger. Another solid plan might be to cut Lotus Bloom. Since mana is usually easier to generate than cards, you'd be certain without it in there that your first cascade trigger would give you gas, which makes trying to storm into a hasty Yidris much more reliable.
Brago, King Eternal & Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, You had pretty solid reasoning for moving these guys down. A new deck like Blood Pod being a tough match-up is a good meta reason for demoting a commander. (For anyone wondering, "X new commander in Y color identity plays Z strategy better!" is a BAD meta reason, because it doesn't actually make the old commander any worse.) I would be willing to move them down to T2, but I'd like to get a consensus before doing so.
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant & The Gitrog Monster, I could see these two moving up as well, but I'm a bit more hesitant about The Gitrog Monster. The reliability of the combo can't be denied, but like Sidisi, Undead Vizier, it's a bit difficult for it to play through counterspells. There are only like 3 or 4 effective ways to stop people from messing with your spells, and a lot of Gitrog lines rely on specific cards, so it's easy to know what to counter.
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, Finally, a demotion I can get behind. I feel like the only reason she was placed so high to begin with was people sort of expected proliferate.dec to have better synergies come out of it. At this point all we really need to do is figure out how low she should actually get dropped and what strategy is really best for her.
Oona, Queen of the Fae & Dralnu, Lich Lord, You're saying these should stay, and my opinion on Dralnu is already out there, so I'm not going to get too into this, but as a general statement I'd just like to say that it's worthwhile to think of the .5 tiers as a section for commanders that are around the same power level as the tier above them, but have weakness or drawbacks in their strategy compared to those commanders. Dralnu is about the same power level as many T2 commanders, but has an obvious drawback that weighs him down a little. Same could be said for most of T1.5 and T2.5. However, all of that was a tangent, because what I started writing this to say was I disagree with your estimation of their color identity as "restricted." Dimir is actually one of the best color pairs right now for infinite combo decks, since it has Dramatic Scepter, PE, HT, the best control cards, great draw, all the general tutors, AND all the artifact tutors. Losing green hurts your ramp a little bit, but all the extra rocks you're including for your combos go a long way towards making it up, and creature tutors are all but unnecessary. Blue/Black is just awesome right now, all I'm saying.
Baral, Chief of Compliance, This is interesting. Has he not been as effective as people were thinking, or did HT just fall out of favor? I'm open to the idea. What does everybody else think of demoting him?
I'll swap to your Johnny, Combo Player list. I didn't really bother checking the last one that thoroughly since it's Un-set. Your's seems better.
To everybody else, I'm reviewing the decks that have been posted. I'll put up the ones that look good, and comment if I think something needs to be changed. Stay posted.
1 week ago
I agree with sonnet666 here. We are considering the power of every commander ever printed, and demoting them just like that would be an error I think.
I think a good example is Karador. Yes, sure Thrasios + Tymna murdered him, I agree on that. But, the deck running Karador is still playable, I mean it is nowhere complete jank, and still on par with something such as The Mimeoplasm, also outclassed by Thrasios + Tymna.
I think we should calm down on demoting everything and changing everything. Let's colleclt some datas. Let's gather some decklists. Let's optimize things a little before moving that many cards around. And I won't even join the Kess discussion...
Even if some people are not considering it really good, I like Dralnu quite a lot. He offers some potential of a cheap, easy to build UB storm deck which might be a good entry point for cEDH, a good way to learn how to play storm and Doomsdayon a somewhat budget (like I am forced on now because of school). However, like it have been said before me, it has a pretty huge drawback. If ever damage was to be dealt to him, we are pretty dead. Sacrificing our board to a damage spell would be pretty bad. Sure, I have not saw a lot of damage spells in cEDH (except for the ones mentionned by sonnet666, even those I have not really seen...). Definitely does not belongs to tier 4. I would agree on moving this commander up to tier 2.5. He is not the most powerful cEDH deck ever built. However, the deck can win without the commander, and if the commander survives to untap, it is pretty much a guaranteed win, since we could go double High Tideand double Bubbling Muckin a single turn, Paradox Engine...
Now, onto Reaper King. There definitely is some sleeping potential over there. Food Chain generating so much mana from our commander... We have seen what 5c Chain decks are available (just take a look at General Tazri if you don't know what I mean). Sure, the deck will be nowhere as strong, but I definitely think there are a lot of things that could be done with it. I am not sure going for a BloodPod deck is the best idea, even if it seems attracting. I will have to look more in depths to it before moving it though, it is too early to say. But it has a lot of potential.
2 weeks ago
All great points.
I think I am taking a little bit of Sedris, the Traitor King and playing that graveyard game with this deck. He is my main EDH deck currently, and I really like the idea of discarding zombies to the graveyard. Then the off chance I can't have The Scarab God bring them out, at least I have a way of bringing them back with Gisa and Geralf and Havengul Lich.
Dralnu, Lich Lord is more for just overwhelming with Army of the Damned and Zombie Apocalypse.I don't have the worry of Blasphemous Act in my playgroup, but that is a good card to be worried about. It could really mess the flow up.
I'll continue playtesting what I have and keep an eye on this deck to see if there are any other things you update that may fit into my playing style. Thanks again!
Also, nine EDH decks, I don't know how you find the time to build them. I have one more I am working on. Zurgo Helmsmasher will be mostly speed and giving him to my opponents with Assault Suit so they can keep the pressure on. I can see him getting out of control fairly quickly so it will be nice to have another deck to lean on when they get annoyed with that. Venser, Shaper Savant didn't make many friends. I ended up busting it up after a few games when I kicked Rite of Replication on Magmatic Force with 8 players. Needless to say, it was a downer for the rest of the table.
2 weeks ago
Thanks for your suggestions! This is a pretty rough list right now; there's a lot of cards I need to get, many of which you've suggested (Liliana, Death's Majesty, Liliana's Mastery, Shepherd of Rot, Zombie Master). This deck is admittedly a low priority among my EDH lists, (owning nine Commander decks really hurts my wallet) but I'm looking forward to teching it out as it is next on my list to upgrade.
I would absolutely run Lord of the Undead and Relentless Dead if it weren't for the fact that both of those cards are quite expensive for me. Since Standard is about to rotate out Shadows Over Innistrad, I figure I can pick up the latter once it cycles out for a better price.
Dralnu, Lich Lord isn't really good for my playgroup. Aside from the fact that I'm focusing on a creature-based deck as opposed to instant/sorceries, there's about two too many copies of Blasphemous Act floating around that would really punish me.
Breathstealer's Crypt looks cool, always love older janky cards that synergise well. I'm just concerned about revealing every card I draw; I love to play politically and I think that could hurt me.
Dread Slaver used to be in the list, and from playtesting I can say it underperformed. A lot. I could never create a favorable combat situation in which my opponent would actually block/attack into it. Creatures can just be really big in EDH.
Zombie Infestation is a pretty good card, but I like to tutor up Necropotence pretty often and discarding has antisynergy with it.
Other cards I'm looking to add would be Graveborn Muse (I get to draw into whatever I didn't scry away), Risen Executioner (as a more budget Zombie lord), Hero's Downfall (to strictly upgrade Murder), Buried Alive (just a casual 3-for-3 tutor), and Paradox Haze (because duh).
Thanks again for your upvote!
2 weeks ago
Upvote because I used this to start mine off. Thanks for the base!
A few cards I am considering and/or adding to my build just to take advantage of the zombie and token theme:
Looking forward to building this completely in the next few weeks. Let me know your thoughts or other cards you may recommend.
2 weeks ago
So if you're looking for removals, I'll copy paste the same format as my former post here, reasons and all.
- Ahn-Crop Champion
- Ahn-Crop Crasher
- Beetleback Chief
- Bitterblade Warrior
- Bloodmark Mentor
- Champion of Rhonas
- Honored Crop-Captain
- Khenra Charioteer
- Knight of New Alara
- Prowling Serpopard
- Elixir of Immortality
- Day of Judgment
- Somberwald Sage
- Gaea's Blessing
- Explosive Vegetation
- Ash Zealot
I'll skip over any of the cards that TearsInRain23 already covered (with two exceptions) as he already did a great job explaining why they shouldn't be run.
Exert Creatures: These guys seem great for standard, but their smaller-scale effects don't translate well to a drawn-out commander game. The fact that they Crippling Chill themselves is just icing on the sad cake. Champion of Rhonas is the exception here, but there's only really the Stonehoof Chieftain worth pulling out, which means you exert champion maybe twice all game?
Beetleback Chief: I've actually got a replacement in mind for this guy, and his name is Mardu Strike Leader. The tokens Strike Leader generates are warriors, unlike the goblin chief, and he does it by doing something you were goin to do with him anyway.
Prowling Serpopard: I except with a Superfriends and Atraxa deck at the table, that counterspells will be common, so why limit it to just creatures? My ideal card to slot in here would be Vexing Shusher. Sure it costs mana, but it uses up enemy resources, and makes all of your spells uncounterable in essence.
Elixir of Immortality: Stalls out a game you're likely about to lose anyway. Elixir is the worst possible panic button you could put in. If you really must have a card that gives you back your hand Creeping Renaissance, and Praetor's Counsel do a fine job.
Somberwald Sage: Just like with the Serpopard, I'll simply give a replacement, rather than cover what Tears has already explained quite well. My replacement of choice this time is Shaman of Forgotten Ways. The reason should become obvious when looking at his Formidable ability. This will nine-times out of ten win you the game, unless you have no creatures.
Now to completely ruin all that hard work I did suggesting removals, I'll throw some more suggestions. Assume all my old suggestions stand, and that I automatically agree with all of Tears's Suggestions. My goal here is extra reach, so that's what these cards aim to supply.
For reasons why, just follow me from the top of the list to the bottom.
Gisela is what every creature deck wants to end up playing. Unless she dies immediately, she will get some damage done for you.
Really just Mardu Strike Leader's big brother. Also, his name is really awkward to say, and I think it's funny.
If you've made it through the sea of cards, and what I think of them, then I thank you. Hope this helps, even if only a bit, and I wish you the best of luck.
4 weeks ago
I only did a quick scan of the list and I can already say that the list is not optimized. Regardless of strategy, there are suboptimal cards in the list.
The discussion, if any, would have to be about Dralnu, Lich Lord and not factoring that decklist at all. We have plenty of users here that could easily create a better list than that for discussion on Dralnu placement.