InstantChoose one Counter target sorcery spell; or destroy target creature with power 2 or less; or look at the top three cards of target player's library, then put one back and the rest into that player's graveyard.
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Dimir Charm Discussion
14 hours ago
Because of some other decks i've totally forgot this one! Yesterday I had a small modern tournament with some friends, so I deceided to give this one a try.
But unfortunately it doesn't went that good. So that's the reason I came back here!
5 days ago
I like Dimir Charm because it is a way to get zombies from Sidisi, in addition to manipulating card draw. I RARELY use the removal mode.
I don't really like a ton of sacrifice outlets, and I would rather have "library-to-graveyard" effects than "battlefield-to-graveyard" effects.
5 days ago
30 lands seem way too low. EDH decks usually run anywhere between 35-40. With all of your high cost cards, it would be difficult to even cast the cards needed. Cards like Dimir Charmare very sub-par in EDH. I would also run more sac outlets for this type of deck. Viscera Seer, Fallen Angel, and Ashnod's Altar can help with the graveyard help. Living Death and Living End are great ways to bring back creatures. And if you have a creature reanimator like Dread Return in the graveyard, Mnemonic Wall in the graveyard, and Archaeomancer in play, you can cast the Living Death to bring the wall back, get back the creature reanimator, reanimate the mancer, and just create a loop until your opponents get frustrated and ragequite.
1 week ago
I'll consider the first 3 for the sideboard. They might work and I'll add them to the maybe and look at the matchups where they would help. Thanks for the suggestions! I'm really trying to amass a good list of cards and then see where they are useful and what I need, then build a sideboard from it.
As for the drawing spells, I'll address them separately.
Think Twice: I know some people swear by it, but I tried it for a while and hated it. I make the most of a lot of my turns and usually don't have extra mana to cast it for 'free'. Even if I save for counters and then don't use them, I'd much rather cast Thought Scour with the extra mana because it helps my delve spells. And I never used the flashback because I already use the graveyard a ton with my delve and want to freely exile without regrets.
Telling Time: A worse Serum Visions, but at instant speed. The instant speed is definitely something to consider, but the value that visions provides in comparison is enough for me to accept sorcery speed as just fine. If I flip 2 cards I don't want (not uncommon at all when I'm digging for a card), I can put them on bottom and have more mana available to cast the card I drew. As much as I like instant speed, it isn't super important for drawing cards because I cast all of my creatures at sorcery speed anyway. I have counters but don't rely on them for tempo as much as a true delver. My deck is just plain slower. Because of that I don't gain from instant speed downgrades.
Thank you for the comment and +1 though! I definitely need to consider the first 3 for the sideboard!
2 weeks ago
I've always known about probe as an option but never really considered it because it just does to little for me. This deck is a little slow for a tempo deck and I don't think Gitaxian Probe would speed it up, but it might. I run Thought Scour for 2 purposes. I don't feel like explaining it so I'll refer you to comment #4 above.
Maybe I could run probe in addition to my already existing cantrips, but I hate paying life and I can already see their hand with Inquisition of Kozilek. I know I don't have to cast it with life, but then paying 1 mana for it at sorcery speed doesn't do much other than burn 1 mana and thin my deck a little.
I'll playtest it and it may turn out to be really good, but I don't see it at the moment. What I think I need is more creatures, but perhaps more deck thinning could be better because it doesn't throw off my balance of creatures and makes sure I draw into cards that will help me, but if I was going to run another cantrip I don't think it would be Gitaxian Probe. I would rather run something that sets up Delver of Secrets Flip like Index or better yet Dimir Charm.
Thanks for the suggestion though! I'll add it to the maybeboard and play around with it.
3 weeks ago
I see your point of how delve could hold me back, but when I first started running Thought Scour I found that it could do a lot more for me than set up delve. The original reason I wanted to run Thought Scour was to combo it with Extirpate because if I can use a combination of Thought Scour and Inquisition of Kozilek to get a combo piece into the graveyard, then I can exile it forever with Extirpate and never have to worry about them comboing off.
But I didn't want to use a card whose only use was against a certain breed of decks where it was very effective but became rather useless in other matchups. I couldn't just sideboard it either because I need 8 cantrips to keep the deck fast and efficient and devoting 4 sideboard slots to 1 card is silly. That's when delve came in.
At that stage of my deck I also found myself needing 4 removal spells but running 4 Dismember just isn't practical and Doom Blade and friends are too restrictive. I didn't want to add a third color, so Murderous Cut caught my eye as an easy to cast removal spell that I already had the support for.
After that Tasigur, the Golden Fang was the next logical include because with only Vampire Nighthawk and Delver of Secrets Flip I had no heavy hitter that could be played early, hit hard, and give me late game value as well. If I was facing midrange I would always lose due to a lack of substantial early pressure and few powerful late game plays that could stand up to a Siege Rhino or Tarmogoyf. Heck, I even had to use a Dismember to handle their turn 1 Goblin Guide because my creatures could just be burned to death. Tasigur filled a major hole in my strategy that I couldn't pass up.
Because of those interactions I like the delve in my deck. I don't rely on it and I oftentimes hardcast the cards without substantial delving anyway. But I didn't pick Thought Scour to help Taz and Murderous Cut, I picked the latter 2 because of the added synergy with the former.
Now perhaps the delve is holding me back. I could believe it, but at the moment I don't think it is.
I could pull the delve and replace Thought Scour with Dimir Charm like in The Thief Lord, but I didn't like that because paying 2 mana for a card that doesn't replace itself is a little silly. Yes it doubles as a counter and removal against aggro decks, and it is able to set up Delver of Secrets Flip, but just knowing that turn 3 is the soonest I can ever play Extirpate to shut down their deck is enough to turn me away from it. Because of this I prefer Thought Scour.
Now Dimir Charm is far from the only potential replacement for Thought Scour - you mentioned Foresee but that has too high of a cmc and doesn't do much more than Serum Visions, but I still at the moment prefer Thought Scour because of how it is extremely useful in the mainboard without Extirpate. It is a pretty standard card in delver decks right now because of how powerful Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler. I don't like the angler and I need the removal, so I run Murderous Cut instead. My point is that Thought Scour is a pretty ok card right now that I think deserves a spot.
I am still open to opinions on this though. If there is a better card than Thought Scour please bring it to my attention and if there is a removal spell or big creature that I haven't seen yet that could replace taz or cut, please tell me. Thanks!
3 weeks ago
After playtesting this a couple times, here are my thoughts:
Delve + Infinite Hand Size don't play well together. If milling the deck for a specific piece of the combo (or lands...) is the goal, preventing yourself from putting cards in the graveyard by means of the discard phase is counterproductive. Unless you're expecting spells to be countered and want the extra copies in your hand as insurance, Reliquary Tower is just adding to your budget unnecessarily. I would say remove Venser's Journal too, but...
The deck plays slow. At best you have Chasm Skulker out at turn 3, but a 3 cost 1/1 isn't going to do you much good until you start drawing cards. You have Archmage Ascension and Dig Through Time, but Archmage Ascension takes 6 turns (at best) to be of any use, and Dig Through Time doesn't help until you a) use a couple cards, or b) have 8 mana to burn trying to complete the combo. So, assuming you had Chasm Skulker out at turn 3, then play a Psychosis Crawler out at turn 5, you have (at best) 2 3/3's and a 5/5 Crawler (assume play first: 7 cards to start, +5 draws, -5 land drops, and -2 both Chasm Skulkers -> 7+5-5-2=5 cards in hand). It's a nice team in and of itself, but that's assuming everything fell into place smoothly. That being said, Venser's Journal mitigates the damage you could be taking each turn.
The deck is almost entirely dependent on the combo. The removal takes care of creatures, but enchantments, auras and artifacts are basically there to stay. As someone who plays blue a lot, the lack of counters also leaves you dependent on the top of your deck (see lack of drawing in #2).
As someone with an EDH deck built around Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, use the phrase "infinite combo" with a grain of salt. The damage you can deliver is limited by the number of cards left in your deck. I've considered keeping Laboratory Maniac in my deck as insurance. Having one or more copies of Psychosis Crawler out helps multiply the damage inflicted to your opponent, and I honestly think it is more dependable than Sickening Dreams if your opponent has any cards that could prevent the resolution of a sorcery.
My last concern is the general lack of support. Enclave Cryptologist could more dependently draw cards, Propaganda and Silent Arbiter are great for stalling (but I don't recommend both at once), Dimir Charm and Izzet Charm serve multiple purposes, and Dreadbore is both less restrictive and also can target Planswalkers (the deck doesn't run much red other than Lightning Bolt, so a Mountain should most likely be free).
3 weeks ago
I agree that both Sage of Epityr and Dimir Doppelganger need replacements (I also replaced Dimir Charm and I have replaced them with Serum Visions, Thought Scour, and the new liliana from origins in the version I'm working towards, Delver of Dimir. The only reason I don't have Tasigur, the Golden Fang in that deck is because he's a legendary so doesn't run well with lili, and his delve hurts the delve of Murderous Cut, which is my main delve card. I may run 1-2 though because he is really good. If lili is over $30, I will almost definitely run taz instead.
I agree that Illness in the Ranks is good, but token decks will have anthems that boost their tokens, I can already handle twin Deceiver Exarch and abzan tokens though Jace, Architect of Thought, and Illness in the Ranks doesn't affect nontoken aggro decks, which is where I struggle. I also have Ratchet Bomb to handle all tokens in one shot so I need to kill their normal aggro creatures, which is why I know I need something like Drown in Sorrow or Black Sun's Zenith, but I don't know which to run. 1 of each sounds like a bad idea to me.
|Avg. draft pick||5.87|
|Avg. cube pick||3.22|
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
- Dimir Charm + Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
- Dimir Charm + Isochron Scepter
- Dimir Charm + Nightveil Specter
- Dimir Charm + Psychic Intrusion
- Daxos of Meletis + Dimir Charm
- Dimir Charm + Guttersnipe
- Dimir Charm + Dreamspoiler Witches
- Dimir Charm + Duskmantle Seer
- Dimir Charm + Index
- Delver of Secrets + Dimir Charm
- Dimir Charm + Rune Snag
- Dimir Charm + Extirpate
- Dimir Charm + Sage of Epityr
- Dimir Charm + Murderous Cut