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Dimir Charm Discussion
3 days ago
1 week ago
The first thing I'll say is that with 21 lands, you probably can't expect to get the mana to launch Army of the Damned or a really powerful Mind Grind or Torment of Hailfire. Well, at least without Organ Harvest, of which you're only sporting one copy. (If you don't play with teammates, or if you don't play with silver-bordered cards, you might replace it with Culling the Weak.) For reference, the math on Army of the Damned is that about 1/3 of your cards are lands = 8/24, meaning you need to survive to turn 17-18 (have seen a total of 24 cards between your opening hand and your draws each turn) to hit that 8th land. That’s a long time in a Magic game.
Second, Mind Grind, while fun, is questionable here, since none of your other cards will mill your opponent. Many people play with 4 copies of many of their cards, so milling them might not cut them off from their game plan unless you mill them so much they might die. And for that, you would need more support for the mill plan or a LOT more mana. (This is possible, but a big change. Look for cards like Glimpse the Unthinkable and Mind Funeral. Otherwise, I'd cut it for cards that affect board-state or life-totals.)
Third, your overall game plan appears to be to stall in the early game for more powerful plays late, since your low cost cards are generally defensive. This means you'll want more lands in your deck so that you don't stumble on your way to those big plays. I'd remove Coral Atoll and put in four Dimir Aqueducts. It's not the ideal play, but it's cheap and there's a lot of upside if your opponent doesn't Ghost Quarter it or something. Anyways, that will take you up to 24 lands AND increase your average mana output a little more, letting you rely on 4CMC, 5CMC, and 6CMC plays to dominate the game.
Finally, on to individual cards:
Kraken Hatchling, Mausoleum Wanderer, Pharika's Chosen, and Will-o'-the-Wisp are all fine defensive one-drops, but they all do something a little different. Thornbow Archer is a little more aggressive than the rest of your deck wants, so maybe drop it and pick your favorite of those first four and add a second.
Fogwalker is okay on defense, though it's not the best two-drop out there. I'm not a fan of Olivia's Dragon, especially outside of madness/reanimator decks. Rancid Rats just doesn't offer enough oomph for the mana (skulk is not typically a very useful ability). Graf Rats is bad unless you have Midnight Scavengers, so it's really about how much you personally want to meld them. Ultimately, I'd rather replace them with better blockers like Wall of Tears, Wall of Souls, Contraband Kingpin, Dragon's Eye Savants, Gifted Aetherborn, or the absolute top-tier Baleful Strix. Other value options include Omenspeaker, Sigiled Starfish, and Augur of Bolas. Other fun options here are Surge Mare, Riptide Mangler, Lazav, the Multifarious, Fathom Feeder, and Ludevic's Test Subject Flip. Choose your favorites. Alternately, spot-removal like Doom Blade, Victim of Night, Cast Down, Go for the Throat, and sometimes Dimir Charm are pretty effective.
Wharf Infiltrator can be good sometimes. You can leave it in for fun or replace it.
Eternal Scourge has its uses, but I don't think this deck is optimized for it. Ideally you'd want a few things that can exile it from graveyard or hand, such as Gurmag Angler, Soulflayer, Tombstalker, Scavenging Ooze, Grim Lavamancer), Azor's Gateway Flip (from hand), or the most hilarious option, Serum Powder. As it stands, it's just difficult to kill outside of combat, like a bad shroud or hexproof. Honestly, I don't think you need a 3/3 to be immune to removal. Replace with a finisher, which I'll discuss in a bit. Alternately, one of my favorite defensive 3CMC creatures is Graveblade Marauder, since its offensive capabilities can rapidly increase.
Markov Crusader isn't actually very good even in the rare case when you do have another vampire, and you only have one other one. Compare to 4CMC utility wunderkind Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, 5CMC finishers (like Archfiend of Depravity, Glyph Keeper, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Vengeful Pharaoh, and maybe even Serra Sphinx), and 6CMC game-winners (like Noxious Gearhulk, Dread, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Wurmcoil Engine, Grave Titan, or even Vengeant Vampire, though that last one is much worse than the others). Sure, none do exactly what Markov Crusader does, but some are close and they all have incredible upsides. Even something like Shriekmaw might ultimately gain you more life by just killing something outright, plus it's super-flexible. Heck, Soul Ransom and Mind Control are strong cards too, at least against creature decks. Anyways, Markov Crusader is a card to replace.
Midnight Scavengers is okay, especially if you have a lot of disposable deathtouchers to bring back, but it still doesn't compare favorably to the above finishers unless you really want to meld it with Graf Rats. Remember, doing things you want to do is an important part of MTG. But if you don't care to meld, I'd look to replace it.
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled is fine. In most cases it doesn't compare favorably to the 6CMC critters above, but it has its uses. If you've got a lot of little deathtouchers (Pharika's Chosen, Typhoid Rats, Dire Fleet Poisoner, it can grow really out of hand. Also, Field of Ruin forces a library search.
Elder Deep Fiend is fine. Usually you play it in a deck that has plenty of creatures you don't mind (or are better off) sacrificing (for example, Priest of the Blood Rite, Relentless Dead, Doomed Dissenter, Stormbound Geist/Geralf's Messenger), then you emerge it early and tap down lands. That's not really your plan here, so it's probably not the best choice. Some good choices for replacements are above, but within the category of emerge creatures, I think Distended Mindbender fits your deck better.
Organ Harvest is a powerful card, but has some drawbacks. Most importantly, a lot of people don't play with or against silver-bordered cards. They're not legal in any official tournaments. Tournament legal variations are Dark Ritual, Culling the Weak, and Ashnod's Altar. Other than that, it's a card that is useless in many situations and completely changes what you're able to do when you actually can make use of it, and that can be awkward from a strategy perspective. If you don't have creatures, you can't cast it. If you don't have a big spell in your hand, you don't need to cast it and you'd rather have almost any other card. So it wants your deck to be full of disposable creatures and big spells, like an emerge deck or a zombie deck really making use of Army of the Damned and From Under the Floorboards. But for the most part that is not this deck, so unless you want to build around the card, I'd remove it, either replacing it with Dark Ritual which is always useful when drawn early, or something else that's cheap and effective: Dead Weight, Apathy, Doom Blade, Pharika's Chosen, or whatever.
Sorcerous Sight is worse than Peek and Gitaxian Probe, but I don't think any of those are particularly good in your deck. If you want to know what's in your opponent's hand, play Telepathy. Otherwise, there's better card draw: Preordain and Ponder are the best cheap spells, but it might be worth spending more mana for more effect with Sign in Blood or Chart a Course.
Cemetery Recruitment isn't particularly good with so few zombies. You can add more zombies, or switch to Ghoulcaller's Chant/Find / Finality/Recover/Disturbed Burial/Death Denied to simulate the effect, or just do card advantage the old-fashioned way, with stuff like Sign in Blood/Consult the Necrosages/Read the Bones/Notion Rain/Secrets of the Golden City. Alternately, shred your opponent's hand (and lose friends) with Hymn to Tourach or punch your opponent for cards with Shadowmage Infiltrator. If you're committed to bringing creatures back from the dead, look to Zombify, Extract from Darkness, or Isareth the Awakener, which can randomly run away with the game if your opponent doesn't have an answer. The most efficient reanimation spell is Unburial Rites, but you'd need to splash white for it to be better than the above options.
Contingency Plan doesn't actually net you any cards in hand; you just control what you are going to draw later. Since you're not very graveyard-focused, there's little benefit. The more flexible version is Dimir Charm, and the more powerful version is Lim-Dul's Vault. If you want to stack the top of your deck for 2CMC without wasting a card to do it, there's Diabolic Vision, but the 1CMC Preordain and Ponder are worthy as well. Alternately, raw card advantage is an option. Any of the options I've already listed are fine, but here are some more: Chemister's Insight, Foresee, Deep Analysis.
Mind Grind attacks on an irrelevant axis. Recommend replacing it with a finisher unless you add more mill. If you want a non-creature finisher, Ob Nixilis Reignited is pretty cool. If you just want something that can't get Murdered, there's Sphinx of Jwar Isle.
Torment of Hailfire is possibly workable if you go to 24 lands with Dimir Aqueducts. X=3 is pretty much the bare minimum, and if they have cards in hand even that might not be enough. This is a possible swap for a finisher, as above.
Army of the Damned is hard to cast at 8CMC. Recommend replacing it with a cheaper finisher unless you're all about Organ Harvest.
Apathy is pretty decent at 1CMC. Probably not as good as just casting Doom Blade/Go for the Throat to kill the thing, but definitely more interesting and fun. It can stay in, though swapping it for something more reliable is technically the correct decision.
Strange Augmentation is bad in your deck. While +3/+3 for 1CMC is fine in a very aggressive deck, that doesn't seem like your game plan. Ideally, your finishers are big enough to win without the extra P/T. If they're not, these could be replaced with kill spells to make sure they are.
Tormod's Crypt is useless unless you frequently play against graveyard-based decks. Even then, with only one in the deck, you're in bad shape. I'd swap it for Relic of Progenitus or Sentinel Totem if you really need graveyard hate. If a creature is reliable against those graveyard decks, Deadeye Tracker, Nezumi Graverobber, or Withered Wretch can do some work. Agent of Erebos is another option. If the only things you need to exile are creatures, then Cemetery Reaper, Dimir Doppelganger, and the powerful Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet are options. Otherwise, cheap kill spells, counterspells, or even more expensive exiling removal (e.g. Sever the Bloodline, Silence the Believers) are options. Phyrexian Scriptures is another card I'll mention, just 'cause it does lots of stuff.
Nevinyrral's Disk is pretty good. Go ahead and keep that in there.
Gridlock is okay, but it's basically a Darkness you can use aggressively. I think Sleep is generally better at that. Alternately, if you want a mass-defense spell, Yahenni's Expertise, Languish, and Damnation are the go-to sweepers.
Outwit is way too narrow; most decks don't target players. (The primary exceptions are burn and mill, so if you play against them a lot, it might be fine.) If you want a dollar-cost-effective counterspell in that slot, play Counterspell or MAYBE Dimir Charm for flexibility.
Murder is fine. (Card-wise, not morally!) Technically Hero's Downfall is better if you can get one.
Liliana Vess is fine, but she's a little slow. I'm not sure whether she's better or worse in this deck than Jace, Unraveler of Secrets, Ob Nixilis Reignited, Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath, or even Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. My inclination is that those are stronger as you increase the median quality of the cards in your deck (making Vess's -2 less important).
Here's one inexpensive, somewhat-boring take:
2x Glyph Keeper
1x Liliana Vess
2x Dimir Charm
2x Doom Blade
2x Agony Warp
3x Notion Rain
That's just one take on the general strategy. Ultimately, (I think) you're playing Dimir Midrange, and so you're looking for about 40% (24) lands, 30% (18) things that keep you alive until you have 4-6 mana, 20% (12) things that kill your opponent and are themselves hard to kill, and 10% (6) things that put you ahead on cards just in case you're not drawing the right part of your deck.
1 week ago
I think I'd get rid of one or both of the Dimir Guildmages depending on how much you like the card (the ability is a bit expensive for what you get in my opinion). If you like the dual utility of Dimir Guildmage you could also consider swapping it for House Guildmage which I think is a tad better unless you're really hurting for draw abilities. Same with Dinrova Horror, while flavorful 6 cmc for a 4/4 with bounce seems a bit much when you have a good number of counters, removal, or things like Unexplained Disappearance. Of surveil cards, Nightveil Sprite can give you some great mileage out of just one card. As far as Dimir Spybug and Thoughtbound Phantasm, you'll have to make the call if you think its worth it for just one copy of each. From experience playing a Dimir deck I drafted with lots of surveil but only one of each those creatures, they're amazing when you draw them, but also often I had games where I didn't draw them. Or they got immediately removed. Surveil helps filter your deck to get to them faster, so 2 of each would probably make it much better. Up to you.
You could probably replace Dimir Charm with one of the cards I mentioned that you like, since I think the best ability on the charm is usually going to be the counter, followed by the removal, and you have a fair number of counters and some removal already.
Unmoored Ego is cool but if your friends/playgroup are also playing "guild kit" style with few duplicates, then it probably wouldn't make much sense in the deck, unless you have that one pesky friend that's always rocking 3-4x of a particularly annoying card that you need to nip at the bud.
Whispering Snitch and Enhanced Surveillance are also fun if you feel like you're surveiling enough to make it worth it. Though one could also say, if you're surveilling a lot then Enhanced Surveillance is a bit unnecessary overkill.
Also keep in mind, I don't think Whispering Madness would be nearly as useful without something like Notion Thief, outside of a scenario where you only have a couple cards and your opponent/s have a full hand. If the scenario is reversed, you'll only be helping them out. However, with Notion Thief it basically becomes a reusable "opponent discards hand, you discard and redraw a full hand" or some such.
Kinda hard for me to answer specifically "replace A B C with X Y Z" since a deck with few duplicates is generally less consistent in the direction it's trying to go. Some fun cards here though for you to consider.
Oh by the way, I didn't realize this at first so I'll throw this in here in case you didn't already know, but you can bounce Etrata back to your hand after damage to get her whole "hit counter exile" wincon thing and avoid reshuffling her ;)
2 months ago
I don't want differ too much from the previous conversation, but WOC proscribes the legality of playing a specific card...that said cards like Armageddon are legal in Vintage, Commander, and Legacy format. Much of the previous discussion has concerned itself with the social/moralistic/fairness implications of actually playing these types of cards. In my view when MTG is reduced to its distilled essence, it's simply a card game based on Scissors, Paper, Rock, all be it a much more complex and sophisticated implementation. Because of that WOC has provided a means of dealing with cards like Armageddon just like any other situation our opponents may legally set-up. One way to do this is by adding cards like Dimir Charm to your deck. There are a lot of game situations in which an opponent can throw a high inside curve at you...it's just part of the game. Consider cards like Alpine Moon, Damnation, or Blood Moon: They have the potential to create real havoc...isn't that just part of the game???
2 months ago
Welcome to Tapped Out!
- From what I gather is that you're going for a mill intensive B/U(Dimir) deck?
- How cheap(budget) are we talking about?
Thought Scour | Tome Scour | Horrifying Revelation | Hedron Crab | Fraying Sanity | Drowner Initiate | Dimir Charm | Dream Twist | Compelling Argument | Cathartic Adept | Breaking // Entering | Jace's Erasure | Memory Erosion | Memory Sluice | Mind Funeral | Nemesis of Reason
These are all under $10, I would also invest in having 3 to 4 copies of a number of these.
3 months ago
To start, I'll work on the manabase. Temple of the False God and Darksteel Ingot should be dropped immediately, with Talisman of Indulgence and Mind Stone as nearly direct upgrades in this specific deck. I would also drop Rogue's Passage, Dismal Backwater, a single Swamp, and Dimir Aqueduct for Darkwater Catacombs, River of Tears, Fetid Pools, and Underground River.
This should smothen your draws and manabase, giving you your colors faster and more efficiently, for a small cost. Other cards I would drop outside the manabase would be Grisly Spectacle, Balustrade Spy, In Bolas's Clutches, Hedonist's Trove, Psychic Strike, Fated Return, Keening Stone, Mindcrank, Trepanation Blade, Riddlekeeper, Dreadwaters, Increasing Confusion, Paranoid Delusions, Psychic Drain, and Traumatize, many of these 15 cards are simply overcosted or only affect one player, and don't do enough.
Cards I would run instead would be Animate Dead, Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, Phenax, God of Deception, Mesmeric Orb, Szadek, Lord of Secrets, Counterspell, Brainstorm, Ponder, Stroke of Genius, Prismatic Lens, Jace, Memory Adept, Dreamborn Muse, Thought Scour, Dimir Charm, Whispering Madness
3 months ago
Visage of Bolas and Nicol Bolas, the Deceiver seem like they can be replaced with more powerful cards. The Deceiver's +3 is an 'okay I'll lose 3 life' ability in edh. I get that you got the Nicol theme, but it just seems that they leave something to be desired. If you'd like a planeswalker, Ob Nixilis Reignited performs similarly and costs 3 less mana.
Diabolic tutor can be replaced with Demonic Tutor if you have it