Front:Startled Awake Flip
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Shadows over Innistrad (SOI)||Mythic Rare|
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Creature — Nightmare
Skulk (This creature can't be blocked by creatures with greater power.)
When Persistent Nightmare deals combat damage to a player, return it to its owner's hand.
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Persistent Nightmare Discussion
1 year ago
Lovisa of the Hearth
Legendary Creature - Human
Archer, Knight, and Shaman creatures you control get +2/+2 and have vigilance.
I am the shield that keeps these lands safe.
1 year ago
I think the lack of an alternate win condition is one of your biggest issues. If you don't land a Fraying Sanity, its going to take a long time for you to mill your opponent. Also, you have very little by way of interaction with your opponent so if they kill Minister or Vizier, then what? A guy at my LGS was playing a version of this but he was running 2 or 3 Torrential Gearhulk and had Engulf the Shore in the sideboard. Startled Awake/Persistent Nightmare Flip was also legit in the deck bc of it's ability to be recurred and recast is pinnacle to what this deck is trying to do. And if you're not running the full playset of Glimmer of Genius you're just doing it wrong lol. I hated getting paired against my LGS fraying sanity deck as my deck doesn't have many good ways to interact with it
1 year ago
I see what you're saying but I'm not sure... the very top ruling on gatherer reads "The card that you cast may be an artifact or creature that was returned to your hand by this spell" which seems to contradict that. Admittedly Persistent Nightmare Flip can't be cast as a creature per se, but the concept remains the same.
The ruling you mention seems to be concerned with recasting whatever you bounce with Baral's Expertise to interact with that same copy of Baral's Expertise while it's in the graveyard potentially causing an infinite loop.
1 year ago
Murphy77 I don't understand why that's good. Startled Awake Flip isn't a permanent unless it's a Persistent Nightmare Flip, and if it's that then I may as well just attack with it. Perpetual Timepiece is probably fine as a one-of, but I'm milling my opponent a lot more than myself, so the first ability isn't super useful.
Taking out the Implement of Malice and Vessel of Malignity seems fine, but I don't think Winds of Rebuke is a good enough replacement. Cruel Reality and Witness the End for Anticipates seems pretty good. Why would I want Cancel over Censor though? It's good for budget, but I think having playable counterspells is worth an extra $3.12. For the last swap you recommend, I would take out one of the Unburdens, but as a member of the Mind Rot fan club, I don't think it's allowed.
Natpapetti Interesting, but I would be compelled to go Sultai (see above reasons), and the three-color support in the current Standard is a little expensive.
1 year ago
Hello! I like mill decks too. But in multiplayer... Well, why not?
1) Keening Stone. Of course mana cost is high but on the other hand it works, doesn't it?
2)Startled Awake Flip + Trepanation Blade. Cast Awake, then return it transformed, then attach Trepanation Blade to Persistent Nightmare Flip and attack.
3) Elusive Tormentor Flip transformed into Insidious Mist + Trepanation Blade.
1 year ago
2 years ago
Murphy77, yes, Startled Awake Flip is indeed Startled Awake Flip in the graveyard. Just the Wind is for the recursion from the battlefield after Startled Awake Flip is cast from the graveyard as Persistent Nightmare Flip (see text of Startled Awake Flip). Once it is Persistent Nightmare Flip, it is a creature on the battlefield that may be targeted by Just the Wind. Once Persistent Nightmare Flip is returned to its owner's hand, the card flips back to Startled Awake Flip.
Yes, it is a slow process, and it should not be relied upon by itself. One turn to play Startled Awake Flip. A turn to play Persistent Nightmare Flip from the graveyard, and maybe a third turn to play Just the Wind to return Startled Awake Flip/Persistent Nightmare Flip to the owner's hand (otherwise need 7 mana in one turn). Then a turn to recast Startled Awake Flip. That's 3 to 4 turns just to recast it. If this is the desired win con, it's too slow by itself. You and others are correct that c4spurs will die long before the opponent is milled-- at least if this is the main way for that to happen.
The previous suggestion by Freezingfist to include Manic Scribe is a good suggestion. Additionally, if against decks with sufficient creatures, Engulf the Shore is good to help keep them off the battlefield, and Rise from the Tides provides an additional win con that fits well with this deck.
That's what this deck needs, I think, more than one strategy for winning. If Startled Awake Flip is countered and possibly put in exile (think Void Shatter), then the main win con just lost one of the 4 cards needed. That would be bad. Think about what happens if Lost Legacy is played...
c4spurs, I suggest you think of alternative win cons in the event that the milling won't work. It's okay to have that as the primary win con, but you have to plan for an opponent that is prepared to face this. I have run across mill decks like this, and they tend to be slow and don't often succeed unless they have alternative win cons that can distract or surprise the opponent.
2 years ago
OK - I like the concept - I am just a bit worried about the balance between cards and the rate at which you generate clues. Yes - if you can bounce Startled Awake Flip from the grave back to your hand, then you will only need to play it a few times to win the game.
I am a bit worried about Just the Wind to bounce Persistent Nightmare Flip to your hand, the text of the second effect of Startled Awake Flip suggests that that card is Startled Awake Flip while in the grave (although there may be a ruling on this). You could always use something like Not Forgotten to return Startled Awake Flip to the top of your deck. I actually don't think that the deck would need much tweaking to make it competitive. Consider W/U creatureless mill (options) which is a variation of this deck.