Turn to Frog

Turn to Frog

Instant

Target creature loses all abilities and becomes a 1/1 Frog until end of turn.

Latest Decks as Commander

Turn to Frog Discussion

enpc on Self Hate

4 months ago

There are a few key things here:

  1. MtG uses a thing called "the stack". This is effectively a pile of events, however the key is that the last event to go on the pile happens first, kind of like if you had a stack of papers on your desk. To you can add papers to the pile, but to get to the bottom of the pile, you have to first deal with the papers on top. the technical term is "First in, last out (FILO)" compared to "First in, first out (FIFO)". FILO makes it possible for counterspells to exist, unlike FIFO since in FIFO, the spell would lawyas resolve before the counterspell would. It also makes interactions like this possible.

  2. Once an effect is on the stack, it becomes independent of the source. This means that if you tap a Gelectrode to deal one damage to something, killing the Gelectrode in response will not remove the damage ability from the stack.

So what is happening here with Tree of Perdition is that the first thing you do is put the life swap ability on the stack and then before it resolves you cast Turn to Frog. This means that turn to frog resolves first, making the tree a 1/1 with no abilites. The life swap ability however is already on the stack (and independent of the source - i.e. the tree) so that even though the tree currently has no abilities, the instance of the ability which is already on the stack will still resolve.

If you were able to untap the frog tree , you wouldn't be able to use the ability agin, since it no longer has the ability (until end of turn). However becasue of the way the stack interacts, you can use it once, prior to turning it into a frog.

Dango on Self Hate

4 months ago

Casting Turn to Frog after you activate Tree of Perdition will not nullify the activated ability while it remains on the stack. Just because the face card of the creature will end up losing all abilities does not mean the activated ability will fizzle. Because the activated ability is on the stack before you cast Turn to Frog, Turn to Frog will resolve first, followed by the activated ability of Tree of Perdition because the stack follows a first in last out order of operations. I apologize that I can't put this interaction into simpler words or terminology. I think I know where your confusion is coming from though because it seems as though you think that after Turn to Frog resolves, the activated ability is negated? Basically in the sequencing I described earlier, the activated ability is already activated. When the Tree loses all abilities from Turn to Frog, the activated ability on the stack doesn't care that the card no longer has abilities because the ability has already been activated and must resolve.

9-lives on Self Hate

4 months ago

But with Frogify or Turn to Frog, why is it that its ability to change into lower P/T resolves, but not his loss of abilities?

TonyStark9001 on Self Hate

4 months ago

it works like this:

activate Tree of Perdition. ability goes on stack.

cast Turn to Frog. effect goes on stack.

since Turn to Frog was the last effect put on the stack, it resolves first.

Tree of Perdition resolves next. the fact that the tree no longer has an ability is irrelevant. the ability is already on the stack.

its the same way if someone tried to cast Turn to Frog in response to a Thragtusk etb. the Thragtusk player would still gain 5 life.

GoblinElectromancer on Self Hate

4 months ago

9-lives

After you activate the tree's ability there is a period of time for players to respond. As long as the activated ability is not countered by cards such as Stifle and the turn has not been ended or the game been ended it will accrue. During that period if you cast Turn to Frog the tree will become a 1/1 before the ability resolves. At that point it doesn't matter if the tree has no abilities because its activated ability has already been activated.

To put it simply: the tree will become a 1/1 after you activate the ability but before the ability has resolved then switching the tree's toughness for your opponents life total.

Dango on Self Hate

4 months ago

I think you're misunderstanding this interaction. You first need to activated Tree of Perdition, holding priority so the ability does not resolve if your opponent doesn't have effects in response to the activation. When priority gets passed back to you, the ability will still be on the stack, allowing you to respond to its effect. You will respond by casting Turn to Frog targeting the Tree of Perdition. At this point, the stack has the spell Turn to Frog on top with the Tree of Perdition's ability below it. Turn to Frog will resolve first, turning the Tree of Perdition into a 1/1 blue Frog with no abilities. The Tree of Perdition's activated ability will still be left on the stack, but when it resolves it will see that the now "Frog" of Perdition's toughness is 1, which would change your opponent's life total to 1 as well.

Hope this helps!

9-lives on Self Hate

4 months ago

Dango If Turn to Frog actually worked, it would need to activate at the same time as Tree of Perdition's ability in order to have 1/1 exchange for the player's life. But it goes on the stack afterwards, which means that it denies its abilities after it occurs, which renders it pointless.

Load more